65 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerdage]

If the horde is lots of enemies who are only fractionally as strong a a party member then it's a bit like pushing water up-hill with a broom; I'm not really thinking about anything I'm just pushing them away.

If the horde comes in waves then it might as well just be one fight with fewer enemies, doing it thrice doesn't make it more fun.

If individual horde members are roughly equivalent to one party member, and they out-number me and make some use of tactics/positioning so that I have to think tactically to defeat them, then that's spiffy. Not too often though, ideally; if it's to be as hard as a "horde" fight deserves it ought to be for special occasions.

Modifié par nerdage, 03 septembre 2013 - 12:26 .

[DarthLaxian]

Dhiro wrote...

Well, no. Not inherently, anyway, but I think DA II overdid this and made it a norm rather than something I feel should be used sparingly.

It boils down to personal preference, really.

DA2 overdid that, yes - hordes of mindless mooks (not that i don't like many "easy" enemies and some stronger ones, but i don't want to feel like they constantly toss minions at me (like that DA2 wave-spawning) to slow me down (i mean, that there are mooks in an enemy stronghold etc. that is ok, but not "millions" of them (not more then usual)) that spawn when they are needed in areas that were sometimes empty beforehand (or they only contained a small number of enemies (a number you might expect, like in DA:O)), like say when going after that Coterie-Leader (Brekker i think his name was...you see him standing around with two guards and you talk to him and suddenly there is quite many minions around (with the three raising and alarm or something))

greetings LAX
ps: on the whole, yeah i like fighting, but not pointlessly (grinding - or anything that feels remotely like it - is no fun at all!)

[Karlone123]

I've come to dislike hordes, I prefer to see enemies used in a more creative way instead of just throwing them in random spawn points. Give a certain amount of different enemies strengths and weaknesses in an area that you can fight against instead of enemied who try to overwhelm yoy over and over.

Modifié par Karlone123, 03 septembre 2013 - 01:11 .

[Giant ambush beetle]

Fighting hordes and hordes of trash enemies gets tiresome and repetitive, I want to have fewer battles but against tough and unique foes to keep things fresh and interesting.

[Typhoonxz]

I agree with some of the above comments; fewer, unique enemies that bring a diverse skill set to battles. None of those mooks, thrown in with their healthier, harder-hitting counterparts.

Although a horde of enemies doesn't have to be a bad thing, so long as it fits within the context of the given situation; undead spawning from the ground, demons pouring out from a tear, so on. It can be considered it's own type of challenge, waves of enemies of varying difficulties to test how your party holds up against lengthier fights.

So long as it isn't the norm

[cJohnOne]

The hordes are fun for me. What would you replace it with? Guys with more hit points that you slash at for 3 minutes? That doesn't sound any better than the waves.

[DeathScepter]

having different types of enemies will make you think about your tactics

[dduane o]

It depends on the occasion, I loved enemy hordes when fighting darkspawn because they are invading so it made sense that they are lined up/coming by millions, the plot relevance is there and the tension is also there. I disliked hordes when it's just a random occurence like in DA2 it just feels like murdering tons of people with not much reason.

So if they put hordes then it have to fit in. Since inquisition has a king of the castle elements in it then hordes makes sense and the tension is there.

All Ihave to say with Inquisition

[dduane o]

is ... GET THE HELL OF MY LAWN YOU INVADING NOOBS.

that is all.

[Battlebloodmage]

I don't mind finding big hordes as long as they don't combine it with waves. My poor mage Hawke keep getting abused especially with the behind the back camera.

[Kalas Magnus]

I dont mind fighting hordes. As long as they are there before I get there.

I hate when enemies appear out of nowhere. or drop in out of thin air.

[Secretlyapotato]

*shrugs* I loved AOE'ing hordes to death in DA2.

[snackrat]

It's boring. It always falls into either of two categories:

1) the enemies are weak, unsatisfying to kill, and ultimately feel like time-padding.
2) the enemies are strong (or of standard strength) so each battle takes an unreasonably long amount of time. It ultimately IS time-padding.

One should never try to make a game harder with MORE enemies, or giving enemies more health. The enemies should be smarter, the enemies should have more variety, the enemies should hit harder to narrow your room for error.... but more enemies or more health don't make combat harder. They make combat LONGER, and that, imo, is the worst thing you can do to combat.
Any game that scales combat that way I tend to play on the lowest difficulty because the combat is just... boring.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 03 septembre 2013 - 03:49 .

[Genshie]

Karsciyin wrote...

It's boring. It always falls into either of two categories:

1) the enemies are weak, unsatisfying to kill, and ultimately feel like time-padding.
2) the enemies are strong (or of standard strength) so each battle takes an unreasonably long amount of time. It ultimately IS time-padding.

One should never try to make a game harder with MORE enemies, or giving enemies more health. The enemies should be smarter, the enemies should have more variety, the enemies should hit harder to narrow your room for error.... but more enemies or more health don't make combat harder. They make combat LONGER, and that, imo, is the worst thing you can do to combat.
Any game that scales combat that way I tend to play on the lowest difficulty because the combat is just... boring.

^ Was pretty much the gist of my complaints with DA2. Hordes for the sake of increased difficulty is not fun. If there are going to be hordes they should be spread out through out the story or vary in terms of enemy units. Legacy and Mark of the Assassin handle this a lot better and if the entire game was like these two dlcs I believe people would have had a lot less issues with DA2. I am glad they are going the old mmo/final fantasy/dragon quest route where you actually see them and they don't just pop out (well most of them anyway).

[POETICDRINK]

I love hordes and/or waves. We are going to be able to create a castle. I want to be able to defend it at all cost and not have a castle just as a show piece. Now, that is boring! I love going through many of the skill sets each character has to defeat enemies. I love creating traps for impending enemies.
I'm guessing the amount of hordes and/or waves is a player preferences.I just can't see having magical powers to make meteor showers and so many other incredible things but using them little to no time at all.
What's the use of creating a tank character to fight 5 or 6 enemies once in a loooong while. Magic and tank characters become nearly useless if they don't see a lot of action. I want plenty of strategy in the game, I also want to have that protect the group and forte feel about everything.

[Eveangaline]

Nothing wrong with fighting hordes. Something is however wrong with fighting magically appearing enemies who you don't get to plan tactics for because they just showed up from the ether.

[HiddenInWar]

Not when it's done tediously.

[DaringMoosejaw]

DA:II was a game that I could have easily completed at a higher difficulty, but chose to play on casual so the combat wouldn't last as long. Tedious ismoften said, but themperfect word for what they did wrong. The combat wasn't the problem, it was the encounter design.

[Killer3000ad]

When most of the fights consist of fighting multiple waves of generic enemies, sometimes dropping from the bloody solid ceiling, it's gets pretty damn tedious and boring fast. DA2's failed like this because the encounter design was just mostly that.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
The short answer is yes. It is boring, it is tedious, and there is a threshold of enemy numbers beyond which my suspension of disbelief is broken and I just start using the "killallhostiles" cheat to get rid of them.

Having said that, there are specific situations where it's appropriate. Take DAO's battle of Denerim. It makes sense that there are hordes of darkspawn in the city. Most of them are just grunts you can swat like flies, and at that point this makes sense, too. You also have armies to help you fight so things are somewhat balanced. It worked well for me, though even that gets tedious after a few replays.

So it's ok if used sparingly. It was nonsensical in DA2 where every enemy group had 2+ waves of ninja reinforcements from the sky, or out of hyperspace if indoors. It makes no sense that a group of bandits won't back off after you've killed a third of their number, or if you get the impression you've depopulated the city at the end. And did I mention it's tedious?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 septembre 2013 - 07:42 .

[Xerxes52]

If used at appropriate times (say, defending a castle such as Vigil's Keep in DA:A), then I'm fine with hordes.

One thing I don't like is the horde of homogenous "Grunt" or "Critter" enemies who die in one or two hits (Battle of Denerim and many fights in DA2 come to mind). I'd rather it be a horde of various enemy types, with several Elites and even a Boss class enemy or two thrown in the mix.

[abnocte]

POETICDRINK wrote...

 I read a couple of post in which people don't want this is Dragon Age Inquisition. I don't understand this, why not?!? This is how our characters level up weapons and other things. I love fighting as many enemies as possible, especially if it's rewarding to do.
          

1.- Fight 20 enemies for 1000XP each = 20000XP
2.- Fight   4 enemies for 5000XP each = 20000XP

Fighting more enemies doesn't equate to earning more XP.

In my case the first scenario breaks my inmersion ( enemies outnumber my party in 5 to 1 and I'm winning!?!? ) and makes the encounters boring and repetitive.

That said I prefer the third option:

3.- Intimidate/Persuade/Bribe/Poison their drinks/ <whatever non combat solution you may come up with> successfull = 20000XP

Combat is not always the solution and I like games that offer me more that insane amounts of hordes to mass murder.

[Star fury]

Play ME3 multiplayer.

[frustratemyself]

POETICDRINK wrote...

 I read a couple of post in which people don't want this is Dragon Age Inquisition. I don't understand this, why not?!? This is how our characters level up weapons and other things. I love fighting as many enemies as possible, especially if it's rewarding to do.


           

It would probably be screeching from rp'ers who want skip combat mods so they can play an interactive novel instead of a video game.