74 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a problem with TIM being hostile to Anderson.

What didn't make sense to me was how Shepard became able to resist TIM at the last second. I didn't figure TIM's control over Shepard would get any weaker as time passed.

[Xplode441]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Xplode441 wrote...

Bioware didn't fill the quota of sad moments in the game, so they said **** it Shepard kills Anderson.

yes, yes. Cause seeing Mordin, Legion and Thane die is just good times and major lulz for all. Yes. 

Only scrubs don't shoot Mordin, let Legion upload the code, and visit Thane in the hospital.  Get on my level MLG4Lyfe

[edisnooM]

That scene was always odd to me. I could be wrong but my understanding of Indoctrination was that it was more like hypnotic suggestion, a subtle influencing of the persons will to make them think they were doing things of their own choice. But what TIM does seems like remote control.

Also why suddenly Shepard and Anderson are vulnerable to being RC'd now and never before.

[NeonFlux117]

Xplode441 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Xplode441 wrote...

Bioware didn't fill the quota of sad moments in the game, so they said **** it Shepard kills Anderson.

yes, yes. Cause seeing Mordin, Legion and Thane die is just good times and major lulz for all. Yes. 

Only scrubs don't shoot Mordin, let Legion upload the code, and visit Thane in the hospital.  Get on my level MLG4Lyfe

MLG pro baby!!! With your AEK-971 and heavy barrel+forgrip and cobra on OP metro. MLG PRO, scrubzzzzzzzzzz


Dafuq did I just write?

[SlottsMachine]

MegaSovereign wrote...

From TIM's perspective, Anderson represented the stagnation of humanity....

No disagreement here. My confusion was on the how he did it side of it. 

[Br3admax]

Why the Illusive Man, arguably one of the most intelligent humans in the galaxy, think that putting Reaper tech into his head would help him gain control? Why did he strut out full MacGuffin style from out of thin air? How is he able to control Shepard, and walk around, but then suddenly lose that control when he pulls a gun out? Why didn't he just knock Shepard out if the Reapers want them so bad? Where are the making a Reaper at in the Citadel that no one can see it, even when the Citadel is open? Why didn't the Illusive Man shoot Shepard first? Etc? Ect? ECT?

Citadel: Return has a lot more problems than the Illusive Man being able to control minds. That can be written off as Dominate and the like. Talk about those endings some more, That's what we need around here.

[Wolfva2]

/facepalm
It wasn't indoctrination people. Indoctrination is basically brain washing. TIM overrode Shep's autanomous nervouse system and controlled his body. He didn't do a dang thing to his mind.

Appropos of nothing, there was an article in the papers the other day about scientists actually doing that with human subjects; one scientist thought about using a game controller causing the other one (who was in another room with no controller) to actually do the motions. Technology. Strange stuff.

[NeonFlux117]

The endings are fine-they accomplished their goal.

[Ajensis]

^ For me, they didn't accomplish the goal of closing the trilogy on a satisfying note... But let's not turn this into another ending thread, please.

Wolfva2 wrote...
/facepalm
It wasn't indoctrination people. Indoctrination is basically brain washing. TIM overrode Shep's autanomous nervouse system and controlled his body.

Fair enough. But how? And why the blurred edges of the screen if Shepard's mind is unaffected?
I'm not saying I believe it to be indoctrination personally, but it does lack some proper explanation of what's going on. If people in this universe are able to 'override other people's autonomous nervous systems', then why haven't we heard about it before? It seems like something that would come up in either conversations or during certain cutscenes.

[Kataphrut94]

I always figured it was some kind of biotic effect given to him by the Reapers. That sort of manipulation isn't really unfeasible given the context, especially when you've also got abilities like Stasis or Singularity.

As for why he does it, because he can and he's bad sums it up.

[Kiwiphoenix]

Maybe he hacked Shepard's implants? He had them made in the first place, it'd be easy to put in a short-range override. Wouldn't interfere with Shepard's precious personality, either.
And... then he made up a bizarre speech about control because...

Modifié par Kiwiphoenix, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Xamufam]

It's leftovers
shep was directly exposed to object rho for 2 days
There is reaper tech inside normandy edi mentions it after Joker release here in ME2
Shepard getting zapped turn him into a reciever (electromagnetic fields) (quantum entanglement)

resisting indoctrination, as anderson interrupts you hear a growl & the kid is gone. when you hear the growl it's shepard trying to restis indoctrination (mass effect third novel) check
See things that are not there. check   Hazard symbol  Hazard symbol 2 
Dreams take place in the limbic system.
The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its Suggestions. check
Whisper you can't understand. check Whispers, oily shadows Rana in me 1 explains this
Oily shadows. check (rachni experienced this, before the retcon)
Reaper noises. check Reaper noises

www.youtube.com/watch

It's indoctrination remains
They were going with shepards indoctrination & at the last minute they rewrote it (because of the leak)
Finalhourapp stated that shepard would be under reaper control & illusive man would turn into a reaper


www.newsarama.com/8093-lead-writer-mac-walters-delivers-mass-effect-3-game-comic.html

Nrama: Of course it looks like the Illusive Man "got burned"
during the First Contact War (as seen in Mass Effect: Evolution) and
maybe doesn't even realize it yet.

Walters: Yeah but even that is
kind of open as to exactly what happened there. Obviously, Mass Effect 3
will reveal all; that's the point of Mass Effect 3, we tie up a lot of
those loose ends. But I think it's safe to say The Illusive Man is still
very much "himself" throughout the course of what people have been
playing. We wouldn't ever want you to feel like "oh this guy I worked
for was really an enemy all along." But that doesn't mean there weren't
influences in his life.

http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=21m59s
http://youtu.be/wYsUQqhvFdk?t=37m6s

From thefinalhourapp
On Deciding the End of the Game:
The illusive man boss
fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night
Walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end
with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the
page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up
until the end of 2011. Martin Sheen's voice-over session for the
illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until
mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And
even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an
endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's
movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped
because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement
alongside dialogue choices).


leked script pastebin.com/9A1dwb3M
Shepard leaps into the Conduit at the end of the Earth sequence. Shepard slowly wakes up. He is badly injured and alone. Suddenly his radio starts to go off. Shepard and Anderson reach the end of the tunnel in to a larger central chamber. They realize this is essentially a rendering facility. Human goo pours from their tunnel, and dozens (hundreds?) like it, into a vast holding tank under the grated floor. As they enter the control room they can see the controls for the Citadel Arms, but before they can reach them both Shepard and Anderson begin to feel the effects similiar to those Shepard felt at MIRANDA'S MISSION. Before they can realize what's happening, Anderson and Shepard find themselves with their guns drawn and aimed at one another.

Opening Cinematic: Shepard is in a snowy, creepy version of the park where he first saw the child playing. This establishes Shepard in a dream, and shows the child again. Many voices call out to Shepard. These are voices of people who’ve died, but you can’t really tell who is speaking.

CUTSCENE:  
The platform Shepard was on begins to rise up into GUARDIAN's garden where he is faced with his final decision. The fight ends with Shepard near death… and the Crucible docking with the Citadel. Bloodied and wounded, Shepard stumbles for the controls… and collapses (END03 Begins).

It's not kinetic barriers if it was shepard would be surrounded by green/blue biotics
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Troxa, 04 septembre 2013 - 03:26 .

[wright1978]

Leftover of the atrocious indocrination stuff they originally planned.

[CheshireLunacy]

Well TIM did fill Shep with biotech, We could assume that Th4e illususive man added a few fail safe incase Shepard ever went after him. TIM was pretty Damn Paranoid about things, Rightfully so considering a man in his position makes a few friends, and a great deal of enemies.

[dorktainian]

kinetic barriers. did Shep REALLY shoot Anderson?

[Br3admax]

VS seemed to die just fine when they are shot. Kinetic barriers and all.

[dorktainian]

Br3ad wrote...

VS seemed to die just fine when they are shot. Kinetic barriers and all.

  


Exactly.           

"Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same. 

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."

Taken from the Wiki page on Mass Effect Lore.

Modifié par dorktainian, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:01 .

[Br3admax]

Kinetic barriers don't work forever, they give out. And, this was a point blank shot.

[dorktainian]

Br3ad wrote...

Kinetic barriers don't work forever, they give out. And, this was a point blank shot.

  

err....... Nope.  

"Modern combat hard-suits have a "triple canopy" of protection: shields, armor, and self-repair. The outermost layer is created through kinetic barrier emitters, which detect objects incoming at a high rate of speed and generate deflecting "shields" provided they have enough energy in their power cells. 

If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer.

The last level of protection is provided by the suit's microframe computers, whose input detectors are woven throughout the fabric. These manage the self-healing system, which finds rents in the fabric and, assuming any such tear would wound the flesh underneath, seals the area off with sterile, non-conductive medi-gel. This stanches minor wounds and plugs holes in the suit that could prove fatal in vacuum or toxic environments. Soldiers are not always fond of the "squish skin" that oozes gel on them at a moment's notice, but fatalities have dropped sharply since the system was implemented."


Think shooting someone wearing a Bullet Proof Vest.  The armour would take away the damage of the bullet but the wearer might still feel the kinetic impact.  Bullets through armour at close range?  Headshot maybe, but through all three protective layers?  Nope.  Ashs + Kaidens armour was in good nick so kinetic barriers should still have been effective.

[Br3admax]

I really don't think it works as space-magic-ey as you think. There's a war going on outside, and shields need time to recharge. Plus Anderson, nor VS for that matter, is not wearing any armor, for some reason. He's just wearing the uniform of an off-duty officer.

[Sir DeLoria]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

You just shot Anderson, and TIM was like, "I can't believe that worked!"

Maybe I wasn't being indoctrinated or controlled....

I mean, my Shepard did willingly allow Anderson to be finished off by TIM.

*headcanon territory*

After this, my Shepard convinces TIM that his vision might be noble and worthwhile, but his actions and methodology with Reaper tech have nigh-doomed humanity by becoming a pawn of the Reapers and undermining the galaxies efforts against them. TIM considers this and comes to the conclusion that the only way to save humanity is to take himself out of the problem.
He dies a hero.

I would never let TIM shoot Anderson, I simply convinced him to commit suicide(just like Saren). His last words "I tried, Shepard" saved his character in ME3.

[Br3admax]

"Earth. I wish you could see it like I do, Shepard. It's so....perfect." There are no better last words, my friend. Way better than Anderson's, "You did good, child/son. I'm proud of you."

[dorktainian]

Br3ad wrote...

I really don't think it works as space-magic-ey as you think. There's a war going on outside, and shields need time to recharge. Plus Anderson, nor VS for that matter, is not wearing any armor, for some reason. He's just wearing the uniform of an off-duty officer.

 

Kinda agree in no space magic kinda thingy  - but both Virmire Survivors are wearing armour when shot. (if you shoot em that is)

Ash's might look like something Barbie-esque but it is armour.

Anderson is wearing "at least" a flak jacket.  Should have been able to take the hit surely?  

Why go against the lore?  Headshot maybe.

[Br3admax]

Actually, I think Kaiden is wearing armor, but Ash is in her off-duty clothing. But yeah, headshots all around. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:22 .