166 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

That "CoD crowd" meme will literally never die.

Fernando Melo: So yeah FPSes like Call of Duty have XP and gear progression and we'd like to convey to gamers that they're already familiar with a lot of RPG mechanics. If we can appeal to them about how similar our games already are, maybe we can bring them into the fold.

Headline writer: "BioWare wants Call of Duty's audience!"

The BSN ever since: "BioWare wants Call of Duty's audience so that's why they put in [feature I don't use, like, or understand] or [use animations or art style I feel is too flashy]."

All because of a headline writer. Amazing.

simfamSP wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Umm ... because Dragon Age is an action RPG?

Is this one of those times where you guys are playing a different version of the games than I am?

It's never been an action RPG. Unless your definition of the genre varies from others.

BioWare has called every game they've ever made an action RPG.  

"Action RPG" is only a marketing term companies use to indicate two things to two people:

People who like RPGs:  "Ok this is something I may like because it has RPG in it"
People who don't like RPGs:  "Ok I dont generally like RPGs but maybe this one is different."

Ask a thread to define what an action RPG is and you'll get as may answers as the thread has responses.  It's useless as a category except other than to define genre purity, which is about as scientific as eugenics.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:22 .

[Trafalgar-Law]

dduane o wrote...

trafalgar law: I sincerely hope they take the dodge roll feature out. It defeats the purpose of DEX, CON and armor. Unless there are some limitations, I can easily play as a warrior, pump everything into STR and solo the game with ease.

the combat rolls isn't completely a bad thing, it comes helpful if you're against dragons, big stuff and hordes to just get out from the place really fast.

DEX could help in a way that when dodging, you have lesser chance of getting hit when doing the action. I could try to dodge an attack but with low dex, while dodging i can be stop or i can still get hit by a melee while dodging but I've gain a new position that are not flankable and I'll be able to counter. It can also give part to increase attack rates. i could swing that greatsword faster and do talents faster before the enemy could go out of reach.

CON could be helpful when you're running low with health potions and all you have is yourself and you could rely on your health to hold in there for a bit longer and higher constitution makes it possible to outlive opposition hordes and enemies that are level higher when your companion is all down. It could also help when you're far from your base and still have a long way to go and your health is not full and still surrounded by hordes.

there will still be enemies that have armor penetrating weapons but having armor won't let your other enemies deal more damage to you that much when you're concentrating on a big boss.

The DEX, CON, and armors may sounds too weak when by itself but if it is added in a gameplay, they can still be helpful.

I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. Ultimately, the warrior isn't the one who should need to get out of a place really fast. Rather, it's the warrior who ends up soaking or otherwise mitigating the brunt of the damage the mobs and bosses deliver. The Rogue/Mage on the other hand are the ones needing to get out of tight spots.

Don't get me wrong. I can see the uses of the dodge roll mechanic, but the Devs are gonna have to balance it some more. You can already solo DA2 with any class just by kiting. Just imagine how much easier dodge rolling will make things when taking into account the consistently stupid enemy A.I. Just my two cents.

Modifié par Trafalgar-Law, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:20 .

[Shadow Fox]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

This would require the COD crowd to actually give a damn about fantasy.

Require? Not really. I mean yeah, the COD crowd doesn't give a damn about fantasy, but try telling EA that!

Have a feature you don't like in a game?Blame the casuals/scrubs/COD fans/console gamers etc...

/internet logic

[Fredward]

Vapaä wrote...

Kaiser of Hearts wrote...
What's an action rpg element?

A buzzword beloved by elitist players

Right? Seriously though da **** is an action RPG element? I haven't played many (Diablo, Sacred) but they usually have an incredibly flat storyline, no interaction, WAAAAAAY too much incredibly repetitive combat and the same loot with different names. In fact the only similarity I've regularly seen between an RPG and an ARPG is that both have leveling up systems.

[Trafalgar-Law]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

This would require the COD crowd to actually give a damn about fantasy.

Require? Not really. I mean yeah, the COD crowd doesn't give a damn about fantasy, but try telling EA that!

Have a feature you don't like in a game?Blame the casuals/scrubs/COD fans/console gamers etc...

/internet logic

Nope, I don't believe I blamed anybody other than EA in that comment.. Try reading a post for comprehension next time. Thanks.

/reading is fundamental.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I think it's quite nice as long as it doesn't overshadow the RPG elements or distract you from lack of them.

[Shadow Fox]

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

This would require the COD crowd to actually give a damn about fantasy.

Require? Not really. I mean yeah, the COD crowd doesn't give a damn about fantasy, but try telling EA that!

Have a feature you don't like in a game?Blame the casuals/scrubs/COD fans/console gamers etc...

/internet logic

Nope, I don't believe I blamed anybody other than EA in that comment.. Try reading a post for comprehension next time. Thanks.

/reading is fundamental.

Except you said it was because they wanted "COD players" ergo implying that it was because of the COD crowd that a feature you didn't like was in the game. Try phrasing your post better next time. Thanks.

/context is important

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:39 .

[dduane o]

trafalgar-law (I'm using a phone so i can't quote much) that's true that warriors needs to be in the soak of battle but we also want them alive after the encounter, or throughout the adventure, since rogues have high dex but low armor and so are mages which has even a lower armor rating, the warrior needs to be atleast good at dodging massive attacks since those massive attacks won't miss. if the warrior falls the mage and rogue will have a hard time fighting back.

yeah the devs needs to balance that mechanics, which they can increase both the difficulty and the AI responsiveness when need be, and it is possible. also, keep in mind that DA2 was a game that enemies are leveled with the character, so if your character had better gear you can win with the increased stats but inquisition will be different. some opponents will be stronger than you by the league and skills aren't. so dodging can just put glimpse of freedom using your skills playing.

[Shadow Fox]

Marten Stroud wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Trafalgar-Law wrote...

This would require the COD crowd to actually give a damn about fantasy.

Require? Not really. I mean yeah, the COD crowd doesn't give a damn about fantasy, but try telling EA that!

Have a feature you don't like in a game?Blame the casuals/scrubs/COD fans/console gamers etc...

/internet logic

Nope, I don't believe I blamed anybody other than EA in that comment.. Try reading a post for comprehension next time. Thanks.

/reading is fundamental.

I'm pretty sure Arcane was speaking generally about the different complaints that the internet levies, not just yours.

Yup

[Vapaa]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Right? Seriously though da **** is an action RPG element? I haven't played many (Diablo, Sacred) but they usually have an incredibly flat storyline, no interaction, WAAAAAAY too much incredibly repetitive combat and the same loot with different names. In fact the only similarity I've regularly seen between an RPG and an ARPG is that both have leveling up systems.

The RPG/non-RPG dichotomy has been a thing for years, and will continue raising countless threads on the BSN, but seriously, all I see in the gameplay videos is DAO's combat with better animations, better graphisms and a roll ability

I didn't see anyone making level-headed arguments about a supposed "hack'n slash-isation" , all I see is "IT'S HACK'N SLASH BECAUSE I SAY IT IS", and the same buzzwords "Action RPG" or "COD crowd" or "EA wants"

Strap yourself in for several years of that ('cause it won't just end with DAI's release)

[Biotic Sage]

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to beat DA:I without roll-dodging once if I want to.

If that's not the case then I'll get back to you.

P.S. Isn't roll-dodging just a smoother way of "moving out of the way of an attack?" Because I moved out of the way of attacks all the time in DA:O and DA2. It's not a turn based game and it never has been.

[Paul E Dangerously]

There's nothing wrong with giving your character an option other than "click to select them, click to move them away, watch them slowly disengage and get popped a few more times before they can get away from Creature X".

You know what the over-the-shoulder DAI looks like? Not Dark Souls, not Dragon's Dogma, and not Skyrim. It looks like DAO and DA2 did on console. Surprising, isn't it?

Modifié par Sopa de Gato, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:51 .

[werewoof]

 i personally never saw the appeal of origins' combat. if thats your thing then more power to ya but i see nothing wrong with support for playstyles that arent infuriatingly clunky :/

i think da:i's combat so far looks fine. its still got its tactics from what we've seen but it also has some reactivity and speed to it. origins was too slow and dull and unresponsive, and while i personally didnt mind it, a lot of people thought da2's was too quick and over the top hack-n-slash. this one's got elements of both. people who wanna zoom out and do tactics can do that, people who just want to hit the button and fight can do that. myself being in the latter category.

Modifié par tiktac, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Shadow Fox]

tiktac wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

There's nothing wrong with giving your character an option other than "click to select them, click to move them away, watch them slowly disengage and get popped a few more times before they can get away from Creature X".

You know what the over-the-shoulder DAI looks like? Not Dark Souls, not Dragon's Dogma, and not Skyrim. It looks like DAO and DA2 did on console. Surprising, isn't it?

yeaaahhh i personally never saw the appeal of origins' combat. if thats your thing then more power to ya but i see nothing wrong with support for playstyles that arent infuriatingly clunky :/

i think da:i's combat so far looks fine. its still got its tactics from what we've seen but it also has some reactivity and speed to it. origins was too slow and dull and unresponsive, and while i personally didnt mind it, a lot of people thought da2's was too quick and over the top hack-n-slash. this one's got elements of both. people who wanna zoom out and do tactics can do that, people who just want to hit the button and fight can do that. myself being in the latter category.

Approves

[Allan Schumacher]

cJohnOne wrote...

Well it's my bed time see you later,all.

You don't think they will get some skyrim fans?

I think we'd get some Skyrim fans because for some people, Skyrim was possibly their first RPG type of experience and they probably enjoyed it and they'll probably pay attention to other games that are similar.  Not because of any inclusion/omission of action RPG elements.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

Well it's my bed time see you later,all.

You don't think they will get some skyrim fans?

I think we'd get some Skyrim fans because for some people, Skyrim was possibly their first RPG type of experience and they probably enjoyed it and they'll probably pay attention to other games that are similar.  Not because of any inclusion/omission of action RPG elements.

I think you'll get Skyrim fans because Skyrim is an excellent game that a broad swath of people bought and most folks are capable of buying RPGs with different mechanics and liking them both anyway. I loved Skyrim, but that doesn't mean I want all of my games to BE Skyrim. I'd rather just own both!

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:09 .

[metatheurgist]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
BioWare has called every game they've ever made an action RPG.  

I'm looking all over my BG and NWN boxes and I'm not seeing the word action on it anywhere.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Ask a thread to define what an action RPG is and you'll get as may answers as the thread has responses.  It's useless as a category except other than to define genre purity, which is about as scientific as eugenics.

Just because a lot of people don't know the definition of RPG doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is invalid.

[Renmiri1]

Wrong thread!

Modifié par Renmiri1, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:08 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

Well it's my bed time see you later,all.

You don't think they will get some skyrim fans?

I think we'd get some Skyrim fans because for some people, Skyrim was possibly their first RPG type of experience and they probably enjoyed it and they'll probably pay attention to other games that are similar.  Not because of any inclusion/omission of action RPG elements.

I think you'll get Skyrim fans because Skyrim is an excellent game and most folks are capable of buying RPGs with different mechanics and liking them both anyway. I loved Skyrim, but that doesn't mean I want all of my games to BE Skyrim. I'd rather just own both!

Same here. I like a lot of game types. From FPSs to RPGs. Stalker, TW2, Skyrim, DE:HR, etc. None of those prevent me to play BW games. They are part of my menu as well.

[Vapaa]

metatheurgist wrote...

Just because a lot of people don't know the definition of RPG doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is invalid.

So who knows the "valid" definition of RPG ?

[Cainhurst Crow]

The definition of an rpg falls under the no true scotsman fallacy.

[Raging_Pulse]

Isn't Army Roll confirmed to be a usual, regular, activated talent/ability?

If it is, than it won't matter how hard you bash your keyboard or controller - your character will not somehow roll faster or farther away or something because of it.
You purchase a talent at level-up, assign it as a hot key and then, during combat you press the key and your character performs a roll. That's it. If you have Army Roll, then you can roll, and if you haven't picked it up - you can't do it.

If this indeed is how it works (and I think I got that right), then rolling is not an "action" ability, because it is entirely independent of how skillful at bashing a keyboard you are, as a player.

Modifié par Domecoming, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:31 .