166 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecmoose]

Maria Caliban wrote...

For a large number of people, RPGs never moved beyond wargames so how combat is handled is vastly important. DnD is the exemplar of this.

BioWare never moved beyond this, partially because of the adherence to a party-based design.

DnD accounts for vast forms of gameplay up to and including combat, yes, but it is also entirely possible to play through a campaign without ever lifting a finger. There are in depth rules for diplomacy, trade, commerce and craftsmanship. If your friends wanted to roleplay 5 dwarven smiths who go home to their wives every night, they could.

In that respect, the RPG genre has barely scratched the surface of introducing DnD's nuances to the gaming world.

 To continue the DnD example though, Dungeons and Dragons had dex, con, armor etc. All of this accounted for how hard you were to hit while standing in place, and guess what DnD also had?

Tumble. A trained skill that let you roll in combat for tactical reasons.

The existence of a roll dodge does not preclude evasion stats.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:40 .

[Siegdrifa]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Stats =/= tactics is what I'm trying to get at here. Chess is essentially a tactical game after all, and does not have stats or hit points.

I have noticed that this equation has been made in the past as well, but I am not sure why as it doesn't seem to really encompass what the term tactical means. I think it was made as a counterpoint to "twitch" (which I can at least somewhat see the connection).

Well, isn't stats just simply one of numerous parameters that can be used to build tactic after all ?

So, it's not stats =/= tactics
Stats can be part of it, such as space, mouvement, speed, strenght, et many other parameters.

Was is a tactics ? isn't it an equation that we have to resolve to achieve victory or goal ?
We evaluate the enemys offence, defence, then we try to find counter within our "tool box".

[Aaleel]

aphelion4 wrote...

I like the dodge roll. It doesn't make any sense to stand still when you're being wailed on, and I hate it when games make it so you can't avoid an enemy attack no matter your distance from the enemy. I'd also be up for full, manual blocking and such like in Skyrim. I hate relying on RNG chances in pretty much everything. Why would a tank with a shield sit there and not use his shield to block every attack ever? It's weird if they're trying to go for a more realistic edge in combat and not have it.

They took out health regen, why not add in full manual combat? 8D

I don't know about full manual combat.  Problem with that is it penalizes people who aren't good at that type of gameplay, as well as takes something away from people who like to build characters on stats.

Your character has high evasion based stats, but you're bad at timing blocks or dodges, you'll get hit every time regardless of how your character is built.  Conversely you have a character with crappy evasion based stats, but can dodge everything because you're just good at that type of gameplay.

No health regen plus completely manual combat has the potential to make an unenjoyable gaming experience for some players. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:42 .

[cJohnOne]

aphelion4 wrote...

I like the dodge roll. It doesn't make any sense to stand still when you're being wailed on, and I hate it when games make it so you can't avoid an enemy attack no matter your distance from the enemy. I'd also be up for full, manual blocking and such like in Skyrim. I hate relying on RNG chances in pretty much everything. Why would a tank with a shield sit there and not use his shield to block every attack ever? It's weird if they're trying to go for a more realistic edge in combat and not have it.

They took out health regen, why not add in full manual combat? 8D

It's video gamey.  You want to throw out the dice systems like you use to have in DnD?  That would be a shame in a RPG.  I liked that Dodge and Block are represented by a dice roll.

[Ecmoose]

Aaleel wrote...



Your character has high evasion based stats, but you're bad at timing blocks or dodges, you'll get hit every time regardless of how your character is built.

Which begs the question why a developer would bother adding evasion stats into a game that has full manual combat.
As far as I know we haven't seen any stats yet but I'm sure evasion will work as before. A dodge roll is just a way to further mitigate damage.

Any game with PvP has a character based around evasion, and yet movement in and out of range is still a pivotal part of the fight. I imagine DAI will work much the same. Enemies will attack and the system will "roll" against your dex+armor. If it passes, it hits you. If it fails, it misses. If you happen to actually roll out of harms way...well then it definitely misses you.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:48 .

[Aaleel]

Ecmoose wrote...

Aaleel wrote...



Your character has high evasion based stats, but you're bad at timing blocks or dodges, you'll get hit every time regardless of how your character is built.

Which begs the question why a developer would bother adding evasion stats into a game that has full manual combat.
As far as I know we haven't seen any stats yet but I'm sure evasion will work as before. A dodge roll is just a way to further mitigate damage.

Any game with PvP has a character based around evasion, and yet movement in and out of range is still a pivotal part of the fight. I imagine DAI will work much the same. Enemies will attack and the system will "roll" against your dex+armor. If it passes, it hits you. If it fails, it misses. If you happen to actually roll out of harms way...well then it definitely misses you.

Well I doubt they would.  I guess my main point is that manual gameplay as suggested by the poster I replied punishes players who aren't good at timing dodges, blocks, parries etc. 

[CuriousArtemis]

Topics like this confuse me so much. What is an action RPG? I thought an RPG was an RPG. There are shooters and puzzle games and RPGs... and simulations and strategy games and so on. I actually enjoy playing all of these.

I saw Skyrim and COD were mentioned; I liked Skyrim but got a little bored with it; guess BW spoiled me with their great storytelling

I've played COD but never got into it; it was too realistic and I confess I didn't like shooting "real" people... yes, I know, I'm weird! It just felt like I was actually "in" the army or something. Gahh!

And for shooters, I'm pretty much a Halo girl for life... though my FPS days are far behind me, now that my Halo party buddies are all married with children, no time for gaming

[cJohnOne]

Did we beat the trying to attract Skyrim players theory to death or not. It seems obvious to me that they are trying to get more players. Skyrim players in particular.

[aphelion4]

Aaleel wrote...

aphelion4 wrote...

I like the dodge roll. It doesn't make any sense to stand still when you're being wailed on, and I hate it when games make it so you can't avoid an enemy attack no matter your distance from the enemy. I'd also be up for full, manual blocking and such like in Skyrim. I hate relying on RNG chances in pretty much everything. Why would a tank with a shield sit there and not use his shield to block every attack ever? It's weird if they're trying to go for a more realistic edge in combat and not have it.

They took out health regen, why not add in full manual combat? 8D

I don't know about full manual combat.  Problem with that is it penalizes people who aren't good at that type of gameplay, as well as takes something away from people who like to build characters on stats.

Your character has high evasion based stats, but you're bad at timing blocks or dodges, you'll get hit every time regardless of how your character is built.  Conversely you have a character with crappy evasion based stats, but can dodge everything because you're just good at that type of gameplay.

No health regen plus completely manual combat has the potential to make an unenjoyable gaming experience for some players. 

I myself am a fan of "stats", and like the current gameplay that's been in both the DA games. I guess my point was sort of a hypothetical one, in that I see so many people on here talking about tactics and skill and such, which...well it's funny. DA:O/DA2 aren't games that requires any sort of skill really.

The devs seemed interested in taking the gameplay of DA:I in a "realistic" direction, with the health regen being lessened/gone. Of all the things to make gameplay more realistic and tactical, they chose removing health regen? Guess we'll have to wait for the game to truly judge it. Either way, I don't mind it.

[metatheurgist]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Cowboy boots? Skiing boots? Hiking boots? Puss n' Boots?
:happy:

Now we're into different genres of RPG, Western, Viking, Wilderness survival, and fantasy medieval.

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Well, I'm not sure it really had one to begin with. Back in the 80's, literally, all that was required was having levels and doing damage driven by stats and equipment. There wasn't even any talking in many games. The Ultima games, highly lauded for being fantastic old-school RPGs, gave you next to zero choice or ways to define your character via dialogue. Heck, many view RPGs as being their Japense versions, with games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrioir/Quest and games from Squaresoft being perhaps the highest selling across consoles. But none of these titles really let you ROLE PLAY a certain way or character... at least, not any more than Diablo or Mario did in most cases. 

This definition continued to change as games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum and Temple of Elemental Evil worked to do their best to recreate the table-top experience, giving the player more control, both in terms of mechancis as well as choice and dialogue, so that many adopted that definition as what an "RPG" was. But it still is highly debated.

People would say that, despite Skryim's in-depth exploration, fantasy setting and variety of mechanics, it is not an RPG because you never control dialogue outside of very scripted, limited choices. People would say that, despite The Witcher's branching story narrative and ways to define your character, it is not an RPG because it is based off of action-based combat and timing and the set protagonist of Geralt gives you no room to play your own character. People would say any of the Final Fantasy games aren't RPGs because they are incredibly linear, have set characters and don't allow any input for dialouge in most cases.

Yet many would classify those three games as being some of the most successful RPGs in the market right now.

Yes, I would agree that many of those games are not what I would label RPGs and I would agree that there has been a shift In the definition. I just don't bother arguing about it anymore.

[Ghost43]

The farther away they move from combat being a series of invisible dice rolls, with rare exceptions( XCOM), the happier I'll be.

When I was a kid, RPG meant to me, "Game where you can walk around a town and talk to people, and there are sometimes monsters you fight."

I still think it's a pretty good definition.

[SNascimento]

Because they want to improve the franchise.

[cJohnOne]

Which good old rpg's don't have dice rolls? Or do you prefer action rpg's?

[Twisted Path]

motomotogirl wrote...

Topics like this confuse me so much. What is an action RPG? I thought an RPG was an RPG. There are shooters and puzzle games and RPGs... and simulations and strategy games and so on. I actually enjoy playing all of these.

I would say an action-RPG is a roleplaying game where all the movement and combat is manual. You're always turning your little character with the controller, moving them forward and always hitting a button to attack, as opposed to issuing commands and combat playing out through turns. I think people have been using the term action-RPG since the days of the original Nintendo to describe games that play like The Legend of Zelda.

[Renmiri1]

Plaintiff wrote...

Is there a good reason for videogames at all?

Why funny you mention that... They allowed Lydians to survive famine for 18 years in 500 BC. They are a resource to help people endure hardship, from hunger to a low paying job or a stressful work life and to heal from a myriad of problems including PSTD, depression, brain injury, grief, anxyety and more.


http://www.ted.com/t...tter_world.html   

Herodotus said (in 500 BC)

.. the Lydians themselves say that the games which are now in use among them and among the Hellenes were also their invention. ... These games they invented as a resource against the famine, and thus they used to do:--on one of the days they would play games all the time in order that they might not feel the want of food, and on the next they ceased from their games and had food: and thus they went on for eighteen years.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 septembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[cJohnOne]

SNascimento wrote...

Because they want to improve the franchise.

But that would make DA more like any other video game.  Wouldn't it be more special if they kept it they way it was? 

Well I guess you need new features to keep things interesting but I think they are going to far.