28 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Obviously by the time Inquisition starts, the Circle would have crumbled and mages would be at war with Templars.

I also think it is safe to say that as the Inquisitor we will have a key role in deciding what should happen to mages and the Circle.

I for one would like to maintain the Circle Of Magi. NOT for oppressing mages and NOT in its current form, more like an Arcane University in Obilivion or the College of Winterhold of Skyrim or like Hogwarts.

A place to study, practice magic and research magic freely. You are not forced to enter since childbirth. You can either enter as a mage to study& research magic or as a non mage who just wants to study theory of magic, enchanting and alchemy.

You can graduate from it and either choose to stay as a teacher/mentor/enchanter or you can leave to do what you wish or you can leave and be the court wizards for arls/empress or you can leave to conduct research/archeology or join the army as battlemages.....

I mean for all the talk of prison and oppression, the one good thing about the Circle is that it was a place where mages could study and practice magic en masse. In the Circle in Ferelden, we even had the option of allowing dwarves who just wished to study magic to study it.  That I think is something that should not be just thrown away like that.

Yes we have universities in Thedas but no university or college devoted to magic do we ?

So that is what I would like to have for the Circle....Reshaping it as a place of magical education and magical research..It will be maintained and policed by mages, for mages and non mages who wish to join and study.

Thoughts and opinions ?

Modifié par The Sin, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:11 .

[Ausstig]

What about those who don't want to join?

[SeanNorm]

Those who do not wish to join, do not have to. It'd be encouraged but not forced.
I know what you mean though, playing through both of the previous games the whole 'Magic Is Dangerous' thing has been pushed and pushed. The way I see it Demons no longer need a Mage to enter our world, cos, you know, green-sky-tear-of-doom.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

SeanNorm wrote...

Those who do not wish to join, do not have to. It'd be encouraged but not forced.
I know what you mean though, playing through both of the previous games the whole 'Magic Is Dangerous' thing has been pushed and pushed. The way I see it Demons no longer need a Mage to enter our world, cos, you know, green-sky-tear-of-doom.

Exactly...

[KiwiQuiche]

I would make it like Hogwarts; you stay there like a boarding school, yet can visit family and friends during the holidays. And mages with families who don't want them (>:U) can stay over at the holidays regardless and be safe. They can, however, leave if they wish, without fear of being lobotomized.

None of this "locked up forever baring a rare few" garbage we have now. Mages, as it's proven versus Qunari, are powerful and would be a very good law-enforcement group if properly treated and after they finish their particular basic training in the circle.

And yes, I'm all for magical and non-magical folk being welcomed at the Circle.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I would make it like Hogwarts; you stay there like a boarding school, yet can visit family and friends during the holidays. And mages with families who don't want them (>:U) can stay over at the holidays regardless and be safe. They can, however, leave if they wish, without fear of being lobotomized.

None of this "locked up forever baring a rare few" garbage we have now. Mages, as it's proven versus Qunari, are powerful and would be a very good law-enforcement group if properly treated and after they finish their particular basic training in the circle.

And yes, I'm all for magical and non-magical folk being welcomed at the Circle.

Yeap...I think if we slowly teach or show society that magic is a very useful thing and that its theories can be learnt by anyone (obviously only a mage can cast spells) and that magic can be useful in making potions, enchanting, etc....

It will be win-win situation..

I hope I get to do this in DA:I. I imagine the happiest person with this idea would be Vivienne ..she can go and be a First Enchanter and wear ridiculously Orlesian robes 

[Inprea]

The capacity for a child to accidentally set things on fire is just too high in my opinion for it not to be required. That said. Family and to a lesser extend visitation by friends should be allowed and supported. Travel can be costly after all so some families are going to need help making the trip. The school would be handled like an apprenticeship program. You go there to learn for so many years, then you work there for so many years to compensate for your education, then providing you haven't done something illegal you're free to go afterwords.

After all. How often were children allowed to pick who they were apprenticed to?

That said. I also believe magic should be treated as a lethal weapon in the legal system. If you for example get into a fist fight with someone and then suddenly begin using magic then you should be treated as if you'd drawn a sword on them or worse similar to how someone with extensive martial arts training is judged differently from someone lacking such skills.

[Lotion Soronarr]

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Templar heretic... ! Go and have your fun with Red Lyrium...! We are trying to make life better for mages..

[TTTX]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Only if they don't get the proper training.

Most mages don't want to rule, well expect for the Tewinter ones, but that's breed and taught into them since the day they are born.

[Jaison1986]

I agree that the circle should be an school, not an prision, were mages are taught to control their powers. But some things should be kept in order to make sure it doesn't end up like Tevinter. Aplication to the Circle should be mandatory. Apostates are more easily tricked by demons then an well trained circle mage. Also phylacteries should be kept in order to make sure if an mage becomes an criminal or an blood mage, they can still be found. Mages should also have the freedom to go visit their families from time to time.

[Inprea]

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Only if they don't get the proper training.

Most mages don't want to rule, well expect for the Tewinter ones, but that's breed and taught into them since the day they are born.

It kind of leaves me wondering how much of the tevinter's behavior is due to them being a mage and how much of it is just part of their society. A society that has lasted longer then any other known and endured the brunt of the first blite while the grey wardens were just forming. People can say what they want but any system that last that long has got to be doing something right.

[Ausstig]

SeanNorm wrote...

Those who do not wish to join, do not have to. It'd be encouraged but not forced.
I know what you mean though, playing through both of the previous games the whole 'Magic Is Dangerous' thing has been pushed and pushed. The way I see it Demons no longer need a Mage to enter our world, cos, you know, green-sky-tear-of-doom.

So what about after the tear is sealed? What then? What about when Daemons WANT to take over mages? 

[Jaison1986]

Inprea wrote...

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Only if they don't get the proper training.

Most mages don't want to rule, well expect for the Tewinter ones, but that's breed and taught into them since the day they are born.

It kind of leaves me wondering how much of the tevinter's behavior is due to them being a mage and how much of it is just part of their society. A society that has lasted longer then any other known and endured the brunt of the first blite while the grey wardens were just forming. People can say what they want but any system that last that long has got to be doing something right.

If by right you mean leaving all the heavy lifting to the slaves. Fenris says as much mentioning that slaves are core of the Imperium, and without their labors, they would cumble.

[Ianamus]

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Only if they don't get the proper training.

Most mages don't want to rule, well expect for the Tewinter ones, but that's breed and taught into them since the day they are born.

And what about the mages who are too lazy, weak or reckless to willingly accept the proper training? Are they left in their villages, just waiting to become abominations?

You're assuming that 1: All Mages are strong enough to resisit demons. As the games have shown, this is not true. There will always be mages who are simply too weak to resist demons, and are doomed to become abominations sooner or later. 

And 2: All mages will be willing to learn how to control their powers. In your hypothetical world a mage who just didn't care how to control their powers could walk around freely, just waiting to set something on fire by accident or be possesed because they lack the proper training. 

Modifié par EJ107, 04 septembre 2013 - 12:11 .

[Fast Jimmy]

The Sin wrote...

Obviously by the time Inquisition starts, the Circle would have crumbled and mages would be at war with Templars.

I also think it is safe to say that as the Inquisitor we will have a key role in deciding what should happen to mages and the Circle.

I for one would like to maintain the Circle Of Magi. NOT for oppressing mages and NOT in its current form, more like an Arcane University in Obilivion or the College of Winterhold of Skyrim or like Hogwarts.

A place to study, practice magic and research magic freely. You are not forced to enter since childbirth. You can either enter as a mage to study& research magic or as a non mage who just wants to study theory of magic, enchanting and alchemy.

You can graduate from it and either choose to stay as a teacher/mentor/enchanter or you can leave to do what you wish or you can leave and be the court wizards for arls/empress or you can leave to conduct research/archeology or join the army as battlemages.....

I mean for all the talk of prison and oppression, the one good thing about the Circle is that it was a place where mages could study and practice magic en masse. In the Circle in Ferelden, we even had the option of allowing dwarves who just wished to study magic to study it.  That I think is something that should not be just thrown away like that.

Yes we have universities in Thedas but no university or college devoted to magic do we ?

So that is what I would like to have for the Circle....Reshaping it as a place of magical education and magical research..It will be maintained and policed by mages, for mages and non mages who wish to join and study.

Thoughts and opinions ?

Thought and opinions? You will get your wish. Because this is pretty much the only way the Mage/Templar conflict can end.

Sure, people advocate for freeing all Mages, to live and do whatevre they wish. And other state that Templars should lock Mages away and keep them safe for the sake of the rest of the world. But those two choices are incongruent - you can't have a world in DA4 where Mages are free to be anywhere in one outcome and completely locked away in another. 

So what they'll do is have the Mage/Templar groups be at war for DA:I, then realize they need to unite to defeat the common threat, then realize they work better and can rely on each other. Templars will be on hand to assist with trianing, outbreaks of abominations and adminstering the Harrowing, but once a Mage passes, they are free to leave the Tower and pursue their own lives.

That's the ending I'm betting we get in DA:I, so I'd glad it's one that you, personally, enjoy.

[Inprea]

Jaison1986 wrote...

If by right you mean leaving all the heavy lifting to the slaves. Fenris says as much mentioning that slaves are core of the Imperium, and without their labors, they would cumble.

Because Fenris is totally unbias in his opinions? I do not consider a former slave with a grudge to be a reliable source of information anymore then pro templars trust Anders to be unbias in his evaulation of the templars or circles.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Only if they don't get the proper training.

Most mages don't want to rule, well expect for the Tewinter ones, but that's breed and taught into them since the day they are born.

If they can actually avoid being tempted to use blood magic. Mostly do and turn into Demon's husk. It only needs a careless mage friend or a noble goal!

[Magdalena11]

It sounds like the Circle the OP is proposing is a lot like that in Tevinter.

The idea of a boarding school atmosphere has merit and can be elaborated. Apprentices could be permitted to return to their families for the holidays if they wish and once they pass their harrowing they can be given permission to go to town for the day. They could be allowed to visit town whenever they have a free day and take long holidays with their families periodically if they inform the First Enchanter. I'm thinking of a model that uses undergrad students, grad students and faculty.

If having magic wasn't something to be ashamed of or something a child could be locked away for life families wouldn't be as hesitant to send their kids to the circle for training and accidental fires etc. wouldn't be a problem. Please note that the real world contains arsonists and murderers, some of whom start at a very young age, but not magic. A teenager doesn't need magic to burn down a building. I realize no argument is going to sway those who've decided that every mage is a time bomb waiting to turn into an abomination or destroy a town. I just needed to put in my 2 cents.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Magdalena11 wrote...

It sounds like the Circle the OP is proposing is a lot like that in Tevinter.

The idea of a boarding school atmosphere has merit and can be elaborated. Apprentices could be permitted to return to their families for the holidays if they wish and once they pass their harrowing they can be given permission to go to town for the day. They could be allowed to visit town whenever they have a free day and take long holidays with their families periodically if they inform the First Enchanter. I'm thinking of a model that uses undergrad students, grad students and faculty.

If having magic wasn't something to be ashamed of or something a child could be locked away for life families wouldn't be as hesitant to send their kids to the circle for training and accidental fires etc. wouldn't be a problem. Please note that the real world contains arsonists and murderers, some of whom start at a very young age, but not magic. A teenager doesn't need magic to burn down a building. I realize no argument is going to sway those who've decided that every mage is a time bomb waiting to turn into an abomination or destroy a town. I just needed to put in my 2 cents.

Yeah, the idea of the circle as an optional but highly recommended boarding school is what I was going for. I mean this for one provide education opportunities...since most mages in Thedas with the exception of Tevinter come from poor backgrounds / as slaves (elves)...So making the Circle of Magi into a College of Magi would help improve lifestyle...

Also having the Circle as a boarding school like Hogwarts means that others will get the benefit as well. As in Hogwarts, we have Hogsmeade, a place where wizards & witches chill out, go shopping and relax...So just imagine if the Circle of Magi in Ferelden becomes like a boarding school...those tiny huts & inns on the shores of Lake Calenhad would benefit greatly....University villages will form up around the Circle which ultimately benefits everyone...

[Lord Raijin]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

How naive....

Lack of proper control of mages can only lead to ruin. Mages runing around free is the recepie for disaster.

Lack of proper control of Templars is what caused Kirkwall to go under. You have a Templar (Ser Alrik) who goes around making mages who already passed their harrowing tranquil and another Templar (Ser Karass) who is a classic sample of what a sexual predator is as he rapes mages in the circle, and then scares them with the Rite if they say anything.

Lack of proper control of Templars is what created Knight-Commander Meredith in the first place.

So please, please tell me how Mages should be locked away and never see the daylight again.

[RazorrX]

I think the circle needs to be reformed and a new oversight put in place. History shows that mages are a danger to themselves and those around them, and this should not be forgotten.

Mages need to be treated as people and not demonized though, so this needs to be actively changed with the help of the chantry (to correct its wrong doing for generations). The Circle should be governed by a council consisting of a mage, templar, seeker (new version), Chantry and a local representative.

The seekers need to be reformed and taken completely away from the templar order. They should be an investigative branch overseeing both Templars AND Mages. Templars are more like Marine guards at an embassy than jailers and the Seekers do the investigation work.

Mages should not be able to leave the circle until they are ready for the harrowing. Harrowing should be purely voluntary, but would be the only way a mage would be allowed leaves from the circle. Families could visit both harrowed and non harrowed mages freely, with periodic checks for signs of blood magic/control randomly done.

The circle can then be used as a form of public service department, offering various services such as healing, working with local militia, using magic to help crops grow, etc. All done for a controlled fee that allows the circle to become self supporting as well as pay the mages there a stipend.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I predict by the end of the game, Sandal prediction will become true and everyone will become part mage. That way DA4 and above don't need those class restrictions anymore.

[TTTX]

EJ107 wrote...

And what about the mages who are too lazy, weak or reckless to willingly accept the proper training? Are they left in their villages, just waiting to become abominations?

You're assuming that 1: All Mages are strong enough to resisit demons. As the games have shown, this is not true. There will always be mages who are simply too weak to resist demons, and are doomed to become abominations sooner or later. 

And 2: All mages will be willing to learn how to control their powers. In your hypothetical world a mage who just didn't care how to control their powers could walk around freely, just waiting to set something on fire by accident or be possesed because they lack the proper training. 

No, training should be mandatory and forced if nessary.

Also, abominations happens even when the circle system was there and you don't have to be a mage in order to become a abomination/monster/undead.

[Eveangaline]

I feel like you're going to have a few pre-set options when it comes to what you can do with the circle.