68 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Ieldra2 wrote...

David7204 wrote...
That argument would have held a lot more weight if it wasn't based on "forces us to conform to a stereotype."

That was -50 points for me right there. Maximum grade is now a 50.

If we have no choice but to wear robes and use staffs as a mage "forcing us to conform to a stereotype" is exactly what happens. Why do you have a problem with putting it that way?

Because it implies the "stereotype" (a very questionable term) is a problem in and of itself.

[Hey]

yes

[Ieldra]

@JBDXB:
As for being less effective with a sword, there shouldn't be a class-based extra nerf. Mages don't develop their physical attributes as far, and they don't have access to combat talents, that should be enough. Yet again, if a mage chooses develop strength, dexterity and constutition in order to get better results with standard sword attacks, that's the player's business. You could question the wisdom in that, but there really isn't any reason for a rule that prevents this.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2013 - 08:39 .

[Ieldra]

David7204 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

David7204 wrote...
That argument would have held a lot more weight if it wasn't based on "forces us to conform to a stereotype."

That was -50 points for me right there. Maximum grade is now a 50.

If we have no choice but to wear robes and use staffs as a mage "forcing us to conform to a stereotype" is exactly what happens. Why do you have a problem with putting it that way?

Because it implies the "stereotype" (a very questionable term) is a problem in and of itself.

I could as easily say "dominant visual style". Would that be more acceptable to you? It is perhaps unavoidable that there is a dominant visual style, and I don't really mind its existence, but I do mind that this results in people thinking that mages should adhere to that style, and that it's somehow undesirable if they don't. Someone in the DA team appears to think that, or we wouldn't have those arbitrary restrictions.

[abnocte]

I agree. Is ridiculous how in a world that fears magic, all apostates are easily spottable not only because how they look ( robes + staff ) but because they have no other option but to cast spells.

DA2 was an obvious offender, all problems with templars not acknowledgeding you status as mage would have been easily avoided if we had the option to defend ourselves without magic.

There is a guard or a Templar nearby? Use melee or ranged weapons.
There isn't? Burn them all.

The funny thing is that DA2 had animations where you could see mage Hawke, Anders, and Merrill using their staves as a melee weapon.

So yeah, there is no need for the Arcane Warrior to come back as such. Mages should be able to learn to use at least their staves as a weapon.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

David7204 wrote...
That argument would have held a lot more weight if it wasn't based on "forces us to conform to a stereotype."

That was -50 points for me right there. Maximum grade is now a 50.

If we have no choice but to wear robes and use staffs as a mage "forcing us to conform to a stereotype" is exactly what happens. Why do you have a problem with putting it that way?

Because it implies the "stereotype" (a very questionable term) is a problem in and of itself.

Davey you really don't get to have much of an opinion until you actually play the damned games.

Go on shoo!

[Reznore57]

I like staves .Just not magical ones.
I think the pew pew pew is ridiculous , you should just use your staff to defend yourself when ennemies are too close.
Use it to parry and hit instead of the mind blast spell.

And I would like to see a cinematic where my pc hit someone on the head with her staff.

[Ieldra]

Reznore57 wrote...
I like staves .Just not magical ones.
I think the pew pew pew is ridiculous , you should just use your staff to defend yourself when ennemies are too close.
Use it to parry and hit instead of the mind blast spell.

And I would like to see a cinematic where my pc hit someone on the head with her staff.

I wouldn't mind dispensing with standard magic ranged attacks but I think it's considered a gameplay necessity, to give mages something to do in combat while their spells are on cooldown. Most of the time, you can treat it as a low-powered spell with no cooldown.

DA2's magic attack animations, however, they are ridiculous, and unfortunately, I've already seen some of them return in the DAI footage.  

[jones0901]

I thought the mage animations, close quarter and ranged, were the best of DA2. mageplay felt aggressive and visceral. I would like to see the return of an arcane warrior, though perhaps not quite as powerful, as op suggests

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's the thing:

Being forced to use a staff as a mage sucks. It's unnecessarily limiting and even worse, forces players to conform to a stereotype.

Since it appears unlikely that this is changed, I propose the next best thing:

I want staves that not only look like spears, halberds or naginatas (DA2 had one of the latter), but that can also be used the same way.

Thoughts about this?


(To be clear: what I really want is the return of the Arcane Warrior. I've always tried to play against stereotypes, and that it appears I won't be able to do that in DAI bothers me greatly)

I would be interested in being able to build a more melee focused mage with Spells that compliment this type available as an atenative to the classic ranged archetype. Arcane Warrior was an interesting stab at combining this that didn't come off  imo.

Modifié par wright1978, 06 septembre 2013 - 03:25 .

[Ieldra]

jones0901 wrote...
I thought the mage animations, close quarter and ranged, were the best of DA2. mageplay felt aggressive and visceral. I would like to see the return of an arcane warrior, though perhaps not quite as powerful, as op suggests

I specifically find the over-the-top ranged animations ridiculous, with that extra-ridiculous thump being the worst offender. Also, I don't want visceral. I want deliberate. My mages are no staff-thumping freestyle dancers, and if one of my mages does that thump, I want the result to be epic. Things like that are cutscene material, not for everyday combat. 

As for the visual style, I envision a longcoat and a wide-brimmed hat - and a spear, like Wotan/The Wanderer in Wagner's "Ring des Nibelungen". Neither would I mind the eye-patch.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[aphelion4]

I wanted to use a staff and a sword, Gandalf style. My dreams are crushed. >:

[jones0901]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jones0901 wrote...
I thought the mage animations, close quarter and ranged, were the best of DA2. mageplay felt aggressive and visceral. I would like to see the return of an arcane warrior, though perhaps not quite as powerful, as op suggests

I specifically find the over-the-top ranged animations ridiculous, with that extra-ridiculous thump being the worst offender. Also, I don't want visceral. I want deliberate. My mages are no staff-thumping freestyle dancers, and if one of my mages does that thump, I want the result to be epic. Things like that are cutscene material, not for everyday combat. 

As for the visual style, I envision a longcoat and a wide-brimmed hat - and a spear, like Wotan/The Wanderer in Wagner's "Ring des Nibelungen". Neither would I mind the eye-patch.

well, its all preference. specifically of animations, what would you like the casting and close quarters to look like?

edit. I see you've answered this. I, also like the idea of no ranged magic auto attack- but that's not going to happen.

I would be good to have more variety among casters. perhaps the DA2 casting style should be granted as part of a specialization for mage characters who want to be active, while a more calm, deliberate style would work for pure mage builds, and lastly, the option to use swords, et al.

the sword and staff was always my dream to, poster above. I  would very much like to see that, and I thought, after you found a book called sword and staff in witch hunt, you might get the chance...not yet at least.

Modifié par jones0901, 06 septembre 2013 - 06:19 .

[GDog89]

I have 6 diiferent staff consepts I love to see : A Pure Golden Staff with a a Dragon head with either Sappire or Ruby eyes , a Keeper Staff made of Sylan wood with thorns at the top, A dwarven made Staff made out of Pure Lyruim That glows Blue or Maybe different color depends on Augmentation , A Blood mage Staff which would be Wooden stained with Blood with a Skull on Top with flaming eyes, A Enchanter's Staff made out of Sivlerite with a Crystal Ball on Top that has Blue or Red Lightening in it , and Last but not least A Grey Warden Staff a Silverite Staff with a Griffen Painted on it and for the top a Vile filled with Archdemon blood

[Ieldra]

jones0901 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jones0901 wrote...
I thought the mage animations, close quarter and ranged, were the best of DA2. mageplay felt aggressive and visceral. I would like to see the return of an arcane warrior, though perhaps not quite as powerful, as op suggests

I specifically find the over-the-top ranged animations ridiculous, with that extra-ridiculous thump being the worst offender. Also, I don't want visceral. I want deliberate. My mages are no staff-thumping freestyle dancers, and if one of my mages does that thump, I want the result to be epic. Things like that are cutscene material, not for everyday combat. 

As for the visual style, I envision a longcoat and a wide-brimmed hat - and a spear, like Wotan/The Wanderer in Wagner's "Ring des Nibelungen". Neither would I mind the eye-patch.

well, its all preference. specifically of animations, what would you like the casting and close quarters to look like?

The melee is ok. As for ranged, I'd reduce the attack frequency drastically while increasing the power of the standard attack. Maybe three- or fivefold for both, so that dps remains the same, and use more deliberate and slower weapon-less animations for casting. DA2's ridiculous speed makes everything look like a parody. I'd like that to change.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 septembre 2013 - 06:21 .

[MKDAWUSS]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Sure. I've always wondered what the heck is stopping a mage from channeling magic through a more traditional weapon, perhaps even a sword. :S

I think Spellweaver even mentioned that in its item description...

[mikeymoonshine]

Well they had some speary looking staves in da2. I have nothing against them as long as we can use staves that actually look like staves as well seemed like they took a back seat in da2 with there not being many and allot of em looking kinda lame.

I do worry that allot of people just want the mages to look like warriors and they hate all the robes and staves that don't look like polearms.

I think that's fine but I would like the choice.

[Ryzaki]

Honestly if mages wear armor and swords their needs to be a balancing act. AW in DAO was ridiculous.

[Ieldra]

Ryzaki wrote...
Honestly if mages wear armor and swords their needs to be a balancing act. AW in DAO was ridiculous.

All you need to do is to remove or drastically nerf "Shimmering Shield" and "Fade Shroud". Or enable them only if Combat Magic is on like it was with the analogues in the newer DAA specializations. That would leave mages very little mana for casting while their protections are on.