128 réponses à ce sujet

[bluebeam]

Mimitochan wrote...

I'd rather have non-gendered animations that look good on both than specific female animations.
DA:O and ME1 were both great.

That would be nice, but it's obvious that some people would complain about the female protagonist not being feminine enough, or the male protagonist looking gay.
I don't see a solution that would make everyone happy. Hopefully we'll have some way to mod these things and we'll be able to use the animation we like if needed.

[Dio Demon]

berelinde wrote...

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

I stand the same way that Female Hawke does! I put extra weight on one leg usually my left and I actually find it really comfortable and I'm pretty sure my hip isn't dislocated.

When you run, do you thrust out one hip and sway your upper torso in the opposite direction with your arms delicately bent at the elbow? If so, you probably give your chiropractor a lot of business.

The walking/idle animations bug me less than the running ones. The way people stand and walk is a personal thing, so there's bound to be a lot of variation. People generally run because they're in a hurry, though. They don't do swishy things with their arms or guage their stride for maximum butt bounce. Film a male and a female sprinter from behind and they'll probably look quite similar.

My arms are delicately bent at  the elbow whenever I run, torso is rather rigid when running, as for the hips thing; I wouldn't know I don't pay much attention to my own rear and I rarely run, I prefer walking.

[Captain Crash]

I think because DA2 got it so horribly awkward people are a little put off by what Bioware could do again. Thus all the talk of gender neutrality and keeping things the same. Which is understandable, especially since decisions and actions arn't gender based for protagonists in Bioware games of late.

Still there is no escaping the fact that there are slight differences in stances between males and females. Yeah its not massive and you will be crazy if its a make or break thing but if they can get it right im sure there will be no problem. Its just the latest attempts haven't quite nailed, making it an area for concern to some.

I would rather they keep working at it and then give up all together.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 05 septembre 2013 - 09:37 .

[Mimitochan]

bluebeam wrote...

Mimitochan wrote...

I'd rather have non-gendered animations that look good on both than specific female animations.
DA:O and ME1 were both great.

That would be nice, but it's obvious that some people would complain about the female protagonist not being feminine enough, or the male protagonist looking gay.
I don't see a solution that would make everyone happy. Hopefully we'll have some way to mod these things and we'll be able to use the animation we like if needed.

Well as I said, DA:O and ME1 were both great imo - neither looked "gay" or "butch" - whatever I've been reading here, they looked just genderlessly badass - I'd rather look badass than feminine personally.

As I said earlier in that thread, different sets of running / walking / idle animations though would be fun :

• If we're gonna have such a thing as a dominant personality in DA:I, then that personality could determine what set is applied to your character.
• They could also be determined by your class - idle Archer would check his or her bow for instance.
• Or you could pick whatever animations you'd like to use yourself, why not? After all, DA:O let you pick your voice.

As a side note, I'd rather not mod anything from a game tbh
Modding to me means I have to "improve" or "fix" things, I'd rather have a game that's just perfectly enjoyable as it is.

Modifié par Mimitochan, 05 septembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[Wulfram]

berelinde wrote...

The walking/idle animations bug me less than the running ones. The way people stand and walk is a personal thing, so there's bound to be a lot of variation. People generally run because they're in a hurry, though. They don't do swishy things with their arms or guage their stride for maximum butt bounce. Film a male and a female sprinter from behind and they'll probably look quite similar.

People may run because they're in a hurry, but computer game characters don't, they just run everywhere.  It's certainly not a sprint, it's a jog.

I think one reason why it tends to look weird is because it's just inherently odd to be running everywhere

[Shazzie]

I'm a woman, and when I say I want my character's animations to be 'feminine', I do not mean 'dainty and delicate and with swaying hips'. I mean 'of the female gender'. Women have a different center of balance than men, which means we run and walk differently. I simply want to feel that my character has animations that use the correct center of balance, instead of inhabiting a body that obviously and evidently moves 'wrong', because it was mo-capped on a guy.

Usually, that's what happens: the incorrect (masculine) center of balance, because it was typically said that having two separate animation rigs was too expensive, or it was too much work, so the masculine rig was used for both genders. Now, it's either that or something drastically overdone so much that it feels like I've been beaten over the head by OH, here's that 'FEMININE' you've been asking for!

I just want the right center of balance. I don't want to be FemHawke. I don't need idles that have me constantly check my nails, and I definitely don't need to (excuse avoidance of the word filter, but this is not a curse word and I can think of no proper synonym) c.ock my hip at such an extreme angle every single time I'm standing still.

Modifié par Shazzie, 05 septembre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Kidd]

Am I a terrible person if I look at the posted video of ManHawke with LadyHawke's animations and feel I will want to download that mod for the future? Looked much better to me than this odd wavering and semi-hunched over running animation the male characters have in both DA games.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

wait wait why is everyone fighting? Can't they just you know, put those balls on a woman and record her running? Seems like that would make everyone's arguments moot.

Someone in animation enlighten me

[bluebeam]

Mimitochan wrote...

As I said earlier in that thread, different sets of running / walking / idle animations though would be fun :

You are right, and I think it wouldn't be too hard to implement. As I already pointed out, Vivienne and Cassandra have different animations and that makes me think that Bioware will pull out some good solution for the protagonist too. The choice should be in the character creation screen though. If the animation set changed during the game thanks to your alignment the result would probably be comical.

[Solas]

AutumnWitch wrote...

They are trying give them some credit. I love having a fem hero that is different than the male hero and I'd hate to lose that because of the above. 

And I prefer my fem heroes to be pretty similar to if not the same as the male heroes (almost like a gender-neutral type approach - I like how my female Wardens and Shepards move)... and therein lies the rub - it's a goldilocks problem as someone said earlier in the thread, and/or a problem where chances are whatever they do (more feminine, less feminine) there will be some female players that wish they'd done something else. 

[Trolldrool]

As a player of the male demographich and heterosexual persuasion, I do admit that when playing certain female characters, my eyes have on occasion been drawn to a certain part of the characters body whilst running. It feels weird when the reason for this is because the hips are swinging back and forth like a pendulum.

[Estelindis]

I thought the walking animation for female Hawke in DA2 was fine. In ME3, FemShep's movements were dodgy though.

I still consider NWN1's female animations to be the best, but then again I consider a lot of things about NWN1 to be better than other games.

[MrMrPendragon]

While I've never played a female Shepard, I have decided to make my Hawke female just to change it up - mostly because if all 3 main heroes (Warden, Hawke, Inquisitor) appear in Inquisition, I don't want to have a sausage fest.

Anyway, the strut walk in DA2 didn't really bother me. The running was the only problem I had. My female Hawke looked weird while running. Not too big of a deal for me though, if anything this is just something I notice once in a while.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I'm more concerned about whether or not elves will have DA2's godawfully weird animations.

Fenris looked like he was moving in slow motion.

[Remmirath]

I hope so.

I didn't have a problem with ME in this regard, or DA:O. I did have some problems with movement in DA:O. The hunched combat shuffle does not look like anyone with sense would actually move in combat, and the running was a bit stiff in general. I was too busy being annoyed with other things about ME 2 to really notice the walking and running animations, but I don't remember being particularly bothered by it.

I did have a problem with DA II. Yes, sure, some women do run and walk like that, but the odds that I'll want to play a character who would are very slim. I certainly don't do that myself. There were also some oddities about the male character's running, but they weren't sort of insulting and stereotypical oddities, just oddities.

Moving animations are one of those things that ought to be fairly neutral, since they aren't allowed to be chosen. Goes for both the male and female, I'd say. If they look reasonably natural and don't stand out in any way, that's the ideal. Of course, if you could choose between a airy/flighty style and a more grounded/combat ready style of moving for both genders, that would really be best. Heck, even giving mages the flighty style and the other classes the combat ready style I'd be okay with.

AutumnWitch wrote...

I read these threads and I know the result is going to be. The powers that be are going to get sick and tired about hearing about it and they are are going to become so worried about people screaming one way of the other they will just eventually have all the men and woman act/talk/run/sleep/ etc exactly the same which we all know isn't reality but it will be the only thing they can do to avoid being called sexist. And can you blame them? Its like a broken record in here. So everyone is going to end up dissatisfied but at least everyone will be in the same boat.

I'd be cool with that, so long as it's neutral. The differences in how women and men move is quite slight. People in general move differently from each other as well, which isn't taken into account, because that would be an enormous amount of work for very little gain. I don't think it's a large enough difference to bother with. The angle of the hips is the only structural difference to do with walking, and I'd think that's mostly taken care of in the modeling differences. The other things about types of walks come down to personality. I'd much rather have a completely neutral animation for both than a fairly neutral male animation and a very exaggerated and rather stereotypical female animation.

[vertigomez]

All I remember are Lady Hawke's limp wrists and wagging butt when she ran. It was awful.

[d4eaming]

Ailith430 wrote...

Just for everyone who didn't seem to notice a difference between the male and female Hawke runing animations, here is a video of a male character with the female runing and idle animations to illustrate how absurdly ridiculous they are.

youtu.be/8rTum-rcpoY

I would play the **** out of male Hawke with those animations loooooll Campy femme Hawke with Fenris. Too bad I play on PS3 (and my good laptop died  )

On the other hand, on female Hawke, it is just a bit too femme for how I prefer my female avatars.

[Mimitochan]

Morocco Mole wrote...

BWahahahaha, "perfect blend of strong and sexy"
That's nice

Ailith430 wrote...

Just for everyone who didn't seem to notice a difference between the male and female Hawke runing animations, here is a video of a male character with the female runing and idle animations to illustrate how absurdly ridiculous they are.

youtu.be/8rTum-rcpoY

That's really great! Is there also a version with the opposite combo?
Bethany has the exact same animations has femHawke, I never paid attention to Aveline's, probably they're the same as guyHawke? 

[zMataxa]

Wow. I've never read so many fussy people chirping away.
It's too much this - too much that.
Geees - at this rate Bioware will just throw in the towel and start making Halo and Gears of War games appealing to the war-monger crowd.
Some guys on here seem to spend EVERY DAY complaining about this and that.

In short, I was fine with all the various walks in DA series and ME series.
So what if they were not perfect. Good grief.

[Deflagratio]

MoCap should solve this problem pretty readily. Though I think MoCap is expensive on a data level. (Large consumption of disc space)

[zMataxa]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Yeah, I agree. It needs to change.
That said, I don't understand the complaints about DA:O.

_________________
What's not to understand?  It's a matter of preferences?!
You are ok with DAO and the next dude/ette isn't.
Hopefully Bioware nails down their audience range - adds the options to keep the range engaged and the others can wander off and play other games.

[zMataxa]

Deflagratio wrote...

MoCap should solve this problem pretty readily. Though I think MoCap is expensive on a data level. (Large consumption of disc space)

________________

I would say, based on the comments in this thread, it won't solve the problem.  It will please the realist types - sort of.  They will argue still about what emphasis should be given.
And the fantasy types who like exaggeration - whether moves or kills in DA2 - just get to suffer in silence.

[AresKeith]

zMataxa wrote...

So what if they were not perfect. Good grief.

The whole point is to have them improve on it

[zMataxa]

AresKeith wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

So what if they were not perfect. Good grief.

The whole point is to have them improve on it

________________

Yes but improve to what?
It's like the Republicans(and Tea party) and Democrats agreeing on fiscal taxes and spending.
This thread illustrates one thing:  Bioware attracts a wide range of fans with wide interests.
Even the walk and run movements come under personal pref scrutiny and in the end disagreement.

Modifié par zMataxa, 13 septembre 2013 - 04:46 .