255 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser of Hearts]

We know what a kossith is but people don't care because it doesn't fit with the way they use the word. A Qunari will never refer to themselves as kossith, neither will any other race.

[PinkysPain]

TCBC_Freak wrote...
Okay, I'll bite. Context (the world of Dragon Age as crteated by the writers), Groups (the writers [1] the Qunari themselves[2], and the majority of fans [3]... thats 3 groups right there and you are an individual) and not a central authority (such as an, "I'm right your wrong dictatorship...")

So you're own use of what makes language confimrs that we should all call them Qunari.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, I only said how I define the term.

On this forum (group) within the context of my posts even the people who hate it understand exactly what I mean ... and I can discuss matters which would be almost completely impossible to discuss by using Qunari unless I added a full sentence of qualifiers each time I mentioned it.

Sure it spawns some semantic discussion, which I could avoid by using the brown nosing term oxmen instead ... but I wouldn't be on an internet forum if I didn't enjoy the occasional semantic discussion.

[sandalisthemaker]

ShiroDNX wrote...

sandalisthemaker: Mark Kirby stated ""Kossith" is an antiquated term, not a technical one. It was used to describe the culture that predated the Qun. It may not have even been the name of a race at all." Am1 has a full quote on the first page of this thread. So, it's not entirely speculation.

Doesn't really matter to me TBH.

I personally am not going to call someone that does not follow the Qun a Qunari.  
And I have been stating my reasons for it throughout this thread.

[Am1vf]

 This thread was going great, and we were even reaching agreements! In the Internet!!! And now a bunch of new people appeared claiming to have definitive answers without even bothering to read the previous posts to know what the discussion was about. 
<_<

[ShiroDNX]

Am1: Too often, it happens. Think having the thread title changed as the topic shifts would help. Some.

[Am1vf]

ShiroDNX wrote...

Am1: Too often, it happens. Think having the thread title changed as the topic shifts would help. Some.

I doubt that having civilized conversations and reaching agreements happens so often  but I understand what you mean.

[AmRMa]

Qun- religion- all people given role in life, etc. first adopted by Oxmen/Kossith
Qu'nari- followers of the Qun- can include elves,dwarves,humans
Kossith- term used to describe grey Oxmen before they converted to Qun and conquered Seheron (I think)

[TorulfAmell]

PinkysPain wrote...

By the time I get comfortable enough with someone IRL to discuss the intricacies of races in cRPGs, and find they are actually interested in doing so, I can bother to explain what I mean by Kossith ... it's not a situation which comes up that often.

And I'm going to start calling the them "tables", and then explain what I mean whenever it comes up in discussion.

[ShiroDNX]

Heh, yeah, oops. I have a bad habit with phrasing.

[TCBC_Freak]

TorulfAmell wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

By the time I get comfortable enough with someone IRL to discuss the intricacies of races in cRPGs, and find they are actually interested in doing so, I can bother to explain what I mean by Kossith ... it's not a situation which comes up that often.

And I'm going to start calling the them "tables", and then explain what I mean whenever it comes up in discussion.

+1, nice

[Spectre slayer]

Kossith is an improper archaic antiquated technical term for the culture before they converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari which means people of the Qun and they literally never came up for a name for the race itself which is the main problem that seems to confuse people who are little crazy but the truth is only a select few Qunari actually know the term exists and it's not even in their language if you want to be specific.

Kossith was the name of their culture over 1,800 years ago in the dragon age timeline if you go by the founding of the Tevinter Imperium empire.

Kosuln wrote the Qun in 6:30 Steel age and most of if not all of the culture that was Kossith converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari about 1,720 years ago TE.

We are in 9:40 Dragon 2,034 TE.

So they haven't been known as Kossith culture for 300+ years 

Here's something from Gaider since someone already quoted Kirby.

[quote]
Confession: I hate how the kossith are referred to as Qunari as a people. They are only Qunari if the follow the Qun, and any race can be Qunari.

To anyone in Thedas who doesn’t know any better, they’re all Qunari. The culture and the religion are one and the same thing.

"But what about the followers of the Qun who aren’t big, horned people?"

Properly, they’re viddathari. But since nobody would know what that means, you can call them “elven Qunari”, “human Qunari” or what have you. They are, after all, exceptions to the rule.

"But what about big, horned people who aren’t followers of the Qun?"

Properly, they’re Tal’Vashoth. Again, since few would know what that means, they’d just be called Qunari (to their annoyance, but they’re likely used to it).

"But that’s confusing!"

No, it’s really not. It’s about as confusing as “Jewish”, and insisting on “kossith” because it’s mentioned in a few codex entries makes about as much sense as insisting someone of Jewish descent be referred to as either Ashke**** or Sephardim— as if that would be clearer for most people.

Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest. Kossith is simply an antiquated term that would be used by neither the Qunari nor the Tal’Vashoth and has never even been heard of by anyone else in Thedas, so it’s not apt to be used in-game anytime soon. Thus people insisting on its usage as “proper” when most people who’ve even played the game have never heard of it just makes me scratch my head. It’s bizarre, particularly on the odd occasion when someone schools another fan about it— like they’re just not educated enough to know they should be confused.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:21 .

[Am1vf]

Spectre slayer wrote...

Kossith is an improper archaic antiquated technical term for the culture before they converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari which means people of the Qun and they literally never came up for a name for the race itself which is the main problem that seems to confuse people who are little crazy but the truth is only a select few Qunari actually know the term exists and it's not even in their language if you want to be specific.

Kossith was the name of their culture over 1,800 years ago in the dragon age timeline if you go by the founding of the Tevinter Imperium empire.

Kosuln wrote the Qun in 6:30 Steel age and most of if not all of the culture that was Kossith converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari about 1,720 years ago TE.

We are in 9:40 Dragon 2,034 TE.

Here's something from Gaider since someone already quoted Kirby.

Confession: I hate how the kossith are referred to as Qunari as a people. They are only Qunari if the follow the Qun, and any race can be Qunari.

To anyone in Thedas who doesn’t know any better, they’re all Qunari. The culture and the religion are one and the same thing.

"But what about the followers of the Qun who aren’t big, horned people?"

Properly, they’re viddathari. But since nobody would know what that means, you can call them “elven Qunari”, “human Qunari” or what have you. They are, after all, exceptions to the rule.

"But what about big, horned people who aren’t followers of the Qun?"

Properly, they’re Tal’Vashoth. Again, since few would know what that means, they’d just be called Qunari (to their annoyance, but they’re likely used to it).

"But that’s confusing!"

No, it’s really not. It’s about as confusing as “Jewish”, and insisting on “kossith” because it’s mentioned in a few codex entries makes about as much sense as insisting someone of Jewish descent be referred to as either Ashke**** or Sephardim— as if that would be clearer for most people.

Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest. Kossith is simply an antiquated term that would be used by neither the Qunari nor the Tal’Vashoth and has never even been heard of by anyone else in Thedas, so it’s not apt to be used in-game anytime soon. Thus people insisting on its usage as “proper” when most people who’ve even played the game have never heard of it just makes me scratch my head. It’s bizarre, particularly on the odd occasion when someone schools another fan about it— like they’re just not educated enough to know they should be confused.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

And we have another one. Is it so difficult to find the last paragraph of Gaider's post? Becaause I'm quoting this every three pages:

Dude, I've used the last paragraph of that post in the previus page:

(...)

I thought that was about Gaider, there might be something else I don't know about.

My only issue with it has ever been when some fans school other fans on 
the “proper” term (and, yes, this does happen) or when fans casually use
the word as if that should be meaningful to most— and then blame the 
lore when it causes confusion.

I understand this means it doesn't bother him as long as there is no "obnoxious guys [that] lecture common fans about it".

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 08:32 .

[Spectre slayer]

Am1_vf wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

Kossith is an improper archaic antiquated technical term for the culture before they converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari which means people of the Qun and they literally never came up for a name for the race itself which is the main problem that seems to confuse people who are little crazy but the truth is only a select few Qunari actually know the term exists and it's not even in their language if you want to be specific.

Kossith was the name of their culture over 1,800 years ago in the dragon age timeline if you go by the founding of the Tevinter Imperium empire.

Kosuln wrote the Qun in 6:30 Steel age and most of if not all of the culture that was Kossith converted to the Qun and became known as Qunari about 1,720 years ago TE.

We are in 9:40 Dragon 2,034 TE.

Here's something from Gaider since someone already quoted Kirby.

Confession: I hate how the kossith are referred to as Qunari as a people. They are only Qunari if the follow the Qun, and any race can be Qunari.

To anyone in Thedas who doesn’t know any better, they’re all Qunari. The culture and the religion are one and the same thing.

"But what about the followers of the Qun who aren’t big, horned people?"

Properly, they’re viddathari. But since nobody would know what that means, you can call them “elven Qunari”, “human Qunari” or what have you. They are, after all, exceptions to the rule.

"But what about big, horned people who aren’t followers of the Qun?"

Properly, they’re Tal’Vashoth. Again, since few would know what that means, they’d just be called Qunari (to their annoyance, but they’re likely used to it).

"But that’s confusing!"

No, it’s really not. It’s about as confusing as “Jewish”, and insisting on “kossith” because it’s mentioned in a few codex entries makes about as much sense as insisting someone of Jewish descent be referred to as either Ashke**** or Sephardim— as if that would be clearer for most people.

Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest. Kossith is simply an antiquated term that would be used by neither the Qunari nor the Tal’Vashoth and has never even been heard of by anyone else in Thedas, so it’s not apt to be used in-game anytime soon. Thus people insisting on its usage as “proper” when most people who’ve even played the game have never heard of it just makes me scratch my head. It’s bizarre, particularly on the odd occasion when someone schools another fan about it— like they’re just not educated enough to know they should be confused.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

And we have another one. Is it so difficult to find the last paragraph of Gaider's post? Becaause I'm quoting this every three pages:

Dude, I've used the last paragraph of that post in the previus page:

(...)

I thought that was about Gaider, there might be something else I don't know about.

My only issue with it has ever been when some fans school other fans on 
the “proper” term (and, yes, this does happen) or when fans casually use
the word as if that should be meaningful to most— and then blame the 
lore when it causes confusion.

I understand this means it doesn't bother him as long as there is no "obnoxious guys [that] lecture common fans about it".

He didn't post that on the forums here on BSN, he put it up on tumbler July 9 2013.

dgaider.tumblr.com/post/55048374228/dragonageconfessions-confession-i-hate-how-the

[Am1vf]

Spectre slayer. So was the one I quoted. Weird... it seems he posted twice about it? Ill try to find out.

Here: tmblr.co/ZIsNntpOnRBP

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:06 .

[TCBC_Freak]

Am1_vf wrote...

Spectre slayer. So was the one I quoted. Weird... it seems he posted twice about it? Ill try to find out.

He's made a lot of comments about it in the past, on the DA2 boards and other places.

[Am1vf]

Yes, but this is twice in the same tumblr. Is it really such an important topic? Or does he enjoy discussing it too?

[Spectre slayer]

Am1_vf wrote...

Yes, but this is twice in the same tumblr. Is it really such an important topic? Or does he enjoy discussing it too?

Important not really but he is most likely getting really annoyed that people continue to use that term even when he posted something 2 days before the one you uploaded so someone brought up again which probably got on his nerves because he just explained it.

[Am1vf]

Spectre slayer wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Yes, but this is twice in the same tumblr. Is it really such an important topic? Or does he enjoy discussing it too?

Important not really but he is most likely getting really annoyed that people continue to use that term even when he posted something 2 days before the one you uploaded so someone brought up again which probably got on his nerves because he just explained it.

Actually the post I found says that it didn't bother him as long as no one is saying kossith is the "proper" term.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:25 .

[Spectre slayer]

Am1_vf wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

Yes, but this is twice in the same tumblr. Is it really such an important topic? Or does he enjoy discussing it too?

Important not really but he is most likely getting really annoyed that people continue to use that term even when he posted something 2 days before the one you uploaded so someone brought up again which probably got on his nerves because he just explained it.

Actually the post I found says that it didn't bother him as long as no one is saying kossith is the "proper" term.

I’m well aware this is basically about some fans yearning for a proper, single-word label so they can argue about it online and write about it in fanfiction. Yet I’ve told you what words you can use— the ones we would use in-game and in-world— and still there are “but what if—?!” exclamations, as if coming up with enough convoluted reasoning will make the issue seem really complex and untenable.

You don’t need a single word for the biological race. If you think you do, because you need a term for the big horned people who aren’t part of the Qun (and Tal’Vashoth just doesn’t cut it for you), then use “qunari” and add a ****ing adjective — assuming you’re not a scientist trying to classify their species, that should be something available to you.

Or use “kossith” incorrectly. I’m simply saying what we will use in Dragon Age and assuming that the in-game terminology is something people would like to know. If you don’t care about that and feel you need something additional, then by all means do so.

My only issue with it has ever been when some fans school other fans on the “proper” term (and, yes, this does happen) or when fans casually use the word as if that should be meaningful to most— and then blame the lore when it causes confusion.

That sounds like he's getting annoyed to me and gives up.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:30 .

[Am1vf]

"My only issue with it has ever been" doesn't sound to me as someone annoyed or giving up.

In the one you linked he also says "Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest."

Edit: seems to me it doesn't bother him, he just makes some clarifications on how the canon works. But people say he is upset because... I don't know, they like to think he is some angry writer?

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[ShiroDNX]

Honestly, I think some of them just keep doing it or asking about it on his tumblr to get a rise.

And I've seen plenty of people who dislike repeating themselves. Wouldn't be hard to imagine he still gets annoyed by it, even if he may not show it.

[Spectre slayer]

Am1_vf wrote...

"My only issue with it has ever been" doesn't sound to me as someone annoyed or giving up.

In the one you linked he also says "Of course, when I bring this up I get a round of “ohhh, Gaider’s upset again.” I’m not upset in the slightest."

Edit: seems to me it doesn't bother him, he just makes some clarifications on how the canon works. But people say he is upset because... I don't know, they like to think he is some angry writer?

Sigh angry and annoyed are 2 different things entirely, also you seem to like to selective quote things that fits the point that you are trying to prove especially when you do not take both articles into context because he says many things take make it seem like he's annoyed and posting them would be pointless since I've used his and Mary Kirby quotes so many times but it seems to be useless.

Devs don't use it, writers do use it, the Qunari don't use or recognize it and it's not in their language at all, and they haven't been the Kossith culture for over 320 years so I'm confused why people use it.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 04 septembre 2013 - 11:22 .

[Maclimes]

I think the comparison to modern-day Judaism is a good one.

When you say, "I'm a Jew", what does it mean?

Does it mean you are biologically descendant from the race of people from a particular area of the world?

Or does it mean that you follow the religion?

The truth is, it can mean one, the other, or both. Some people are biologically Jewish in descent, but not members of Judaism. Some people practice Judaism, but have no genetic connection the ancient Hebrews. Some people are both.

Same with "Qunari". It's a word that can have two meanings.
* An elf can be a Qunari, if you are using the word to describe the religious affiliation.
* A follower of Andraste (with big horns and grey skin) can be a Qunari, if you are using the word to describe genetic race.

[Zanallen]

What's the difference between a Prussian and a German?

[Volus Warlord]

Zanallen wrote...

What's the difference between a Prussian and a German?

Prussia is a part of Germany