255 réponses à ce sujet

[Am1vf]

Elfman wrote...

I think I read somewhere the Tamarassans may use the term 'Kossith' to differentiate in the record keeping for the birthing program. But the word 'Vashoth' may also be apt, as it means 'Grey One', i.e. qunari race. But people seem to think we're only shortening for 'Tal-Vashoth', or ''True' Grey One', so I can see why that term might not be preferable to some. I like it, but people understanding me is more important.

I've come to view Kossith as a meaningless word really, as the Qun spread through the whole of the Kossith nation and culture. They became Qunari and are now Qunari. Those who reject it become Tal-Vashoth. And I think the developers have a problem with the term because it doesn't mean anything, and no one we'll likely talk to will even have a concept of the word, so it'll never be explicitly referenced.

And what if, hypothetically, a horned orphan person was raised outside the qun? I believe the Qunari would simply call her/him a Bas and those outside the Qun would call her/him Qunari. But we are none of those things, how should we say so we can understand each other?

[Giubba]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Giubba1985 wrote...
Thecnicaly a Qunari it can be a human,elf or dwarf following the Qun so saying "Qunari will be a playable race" it could turn out to be one of the greatest trolling in the internet history :happy:

No. They have specifically said they meant the race. They have also specifically shown pictures of a Qunari/Kossith/Oxman/whatever as the Inquisitor.

I know but damn that would be fun

[Am1vf]

Maiden Crowe wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...

(...)

By Elves and Humans  outside the Qun, yes. But for the oxmen they can be either Qunari (which also includes elves, humans, etc for example Tallis is a Qunari) or Tal-Vashot. Just beacuse humans and elves misuse a term from a foreign language doesn't mean we should, specially if it can lead to misunderstandings.

A name can have 2 meanings, of course it can get confusing but there are plenty of examples within our own language that one word can mean 2 completely different things.

The name of an object is whatever it is assigned by the person naming it and since the race of horned grey skin giants didn't give themselves a name the people of Thedas did and that name is Qunari.

I'm not saying it's wrong to call them Qunari, just that it's problematic. And the use some people in the forums have assigned to the antiquated term Kossith can be useful.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:22 .

[Potato Cat]

Am1_vf wrote...
And what if, hypothetically, a horned orphan person was raised outside the qun? I believe the Qunari would simply call her/him a Bas and those outside the Qun would call her/him Qunari. But we are none of those things, how should we say so we can understand each other?

Personally, I would call him (for sake of the argument) qunari (lower case) as I would if he was an elf or human. Vashoth would also work. Though the Qunari (upper case for the religion) may well call him 'bas', or just assume he is Tal-Vashoth. But who knows, he may be considered Tal-Vashoth because his parents were presumably Tal-Vashoth.

But yes, I use Vashoth in my head, but on the forums, qunari for specifically the race, and Qunari for the philosophy/culture. If both are true then I just use Qunari, since that seems to be the most popular as well as personally preferring the look of a capital Q.

[Wulfram]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sten said that to make a point about how silly it would be. It wasn't meant to be taken as a statement of fact.

But it still shows an advanced awareness of racial differences - he's not using it as a cultural or religious term, but as a racial one.  It's not like he's going "what's an elf?".  He has a conversation with Zevran about the fact that there are elves placed over humans in Qunari lands.  He's clearly capable of distinguishing people by race.

I mean, maybe the Qunari place no more importance on race than we do on hair colour - though that's kind of odd for a bunch of eugenicists - but that doesn't mean they're not going to have term for an obvious physical reality.

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:26 .

[Ozzy]

Ultimately, it would be pretty useful if Bioware just came out and just stated what the Oxman species is really called but I get the impression that the species itself has never felt the need to make the distinction from the dev responses and so they've gone with that. It's ultimately simple though to take the term Qunari to denote separate things (race and culture) depending on the context in which it's used.

[Am1vf]

Elfman wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
And what if, hypothetically, a horned orphan person was raised outside the qun? I believe the Qunari would simply call her/him a Bas and those outside the Qun would call her/him Qunari. But we are none of those things, how should we say so we can understand each other?

Personally, I would call him (for sake of the argument) qunari (lower case) as I would if he was an elf or human. Vashoth would also work. Though the Qunari (upper case for the religion) may well call him 'bas', or just assume he is Tal-Vashoth. But who knows, he may be considered Tal-Vashoth because his parents were presumably Tal-Vashoth.

But yes, I use Vashoth in my head, but on the forums, qunari for specifically the race, and Qunari for the philosophy/culture. If both are true then I just use Qunari, since that seems to be the most popular as well as personally preferring the look of a capital Q.

I like that upper case / lower case deal. I'm not sure how many people will get it but I might try to start using it from now on  thanks.

[Ozzy]

Elfman wrote...
...I would call him (for sake of the argument) qunari (lower case) as I would if he was an elf or human. Vashoth would also work. Though the Qunari (upper case for the religion)...

I like this. It's a neat distinction and decent way to separate the two. 

[PinkysPain]

Elfman wrote...
I've come to view Kossith as a meaningless word really, as the Qun spread through the whole of the Kossith nation and culture.

That depends what the Qun ran from, it seems unlikely they left behind a Qun empire ... they wouldn't have taken the Tome of Koslun on a perilous sea voyage in that case.

They might be the survivors of a great natural disaster, or they might be refugees from a Kossith empire with a different culture which is still out there.

[Am1vf]

Wulfram wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sten said that to make a point about how silly it would be. It wasn't meant to be taken as a statement of fact.

But it still shows an advanced awareness of racial differences - he's not using it as a cultural or religious term, but as a racial one.  It's not like he's going "what's an elf?".  He has a conversation with Zevran about the fact that there are elves placed over humans in Qunari lands.  He's clearly capable of distinguishing people by race.

I mean, maybe the Qunari place no more importance on race than we do on hair colour - though that's kind of odd for a bunch of eugenicists - but that doesn't mean they're not going to have term for an obvious physical reality.

Maybe only the people in charge of the eugenics care about it?

AstusOz wrote...

Ultimately, it would be pretty useful if Bioware just came out and just stated what the Oxman species is really called but I get the impression that the species itself has never felt the need to make the distinction from the dev responses and so they've gone with that. It's ultimately simple though to take the term Qunari to denote separate things (race and culture) depending on the context in which it's used.

And where would be the fun in that?

No, what they have told us is enought for them to write the ingame content and for us to understand it ingame. coming up with solutions to understand each other here in the forums is our role (and our fun) not theirs.

[Potato Cat]

Thank you, I've considered putting it in my signature so people will be able to see and understand if they are confused.

[ShiroDNX]

I have no greater information for what Kossith truly was -- whether just their race's name, or simply another general term they used, like how they use Qunari now. So I have no use for the term Kossith. When I refer to the horned race, I say Qunari. If I refer to their converts(elf, human, etc) I say converts or viddathari. If I ever need to -- I don't -- I could just say Tal-Qunari to refer to the 'oxmen' to help talk with those who just can't understand.

Qunlat is so helpful to provide so many solutions.

[Maria Caliban]

I think it should be 'What are Kossith?'

[Herr Uhl]

Wulfram wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sten said that to make a point about how silly it would be. It wasn't meant to be taken as a statement of fact.

But it still shows an advanced awareness of racial differences - he's not using it as a cultural or religious term, but as a racial one.  It's not like he's going "what's an elf?".  He has a conversation with Zevran about the fact that there are elves placed over humans in Qunari lands.  He's clearly capable of distinguishing people by race.

He is speaking in a foreign language, and probably has a vague grasp of foreign terms. That would lead him to know the distinctions between race. Whether they find it necessary in Qunari language (whatever it is called) is what is relevant. They also don't find a need to use personal names, but he calls people outside of the Qun by them and is aware of the concept.

[Ozzy]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
The problem with that is however, what about typos?

I think that those who would go out of their way to make a 'kossith' distinction would be more likely to pay attention to capitlisation. 

Am1_vf wrote...

AstusOz wrote...

Ultimately, it would be pretty useful if Bioware just came out and just stated what the Oxman species is really called but I get the impression that the species itself has never felt the need to make the distinction from the dev responses and so they've gone with that. It's ultimately simple though to take the term Qunari to denote separate things (race and culture) depending on the context in which it's used.

And where would be the fun in that?

No, what they have told us is enought for them to write the ingame content and for us to understand it ingame. coming up with solutions to understand each other here in the forums is our role (and our fun) not theirs.

I don't really find it that fun to be honest, haha. 

It's such a trivial thing overall but it's also one of the things that can grate on those with a need to neatly categorise everything. 

[Herr Uhl]

ShiroDNX wrote...

I have no greater information for what Kossith truly was -- whether just their race's name, or simply another general term they used, like how they use Qunari now.

Apart from a direct quote from the writer most involved with Qunari.

[PinkysPain]

Am1_vf wrote...
No, what they have told us is enought for them to write the ingame content and for us to understand it ingame. coming up with solutions to understand each other here in the forums is our role (and our fun) not theirs.

We did and they got pissy about it  I still think they don't want us to name them because they want to use the non Qun Kossith as antagonists at some point ... names are powerful in that respect, without a name for the race no one will even discuss the potential of that race in the story.

Some writers are extremely allergic to on target speculation (Rich Burlew for instance).

Modifié par PinkysPain, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:46 .

[Am1vf]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ShiroDNX wrote...

I have no greater information for what Kossith truly was -- whether just their race's name, or simply another general term they used, like how they use Qunari now.

Apart from a direct quote from the writer most involved with Qunari.

You mean this one?

Mary Kirby wrote...
(...)
"Kossith" is an antiquated term, not a technical one. It was used to describe the culture that predated the Qun. It may not have even been the name of a race at all. It's the equivalent of calling white people, "Occidental." A few members of the Qunari priesthood are going to recognize the word, but no one else in Thedas would know what the heck this term means.

Modern Qunari do not have a term for their race for the same reason that nobody in Thedas has a name for their planet. As far as they are concerned, the world consists of people and things-that-aren't-people. All other distinctions are unimportant. 

Other Thedosians do not draw distinctions between Those Tall Guys Who Sometimes Have Horns Who Follow the Qun and The Other Tall Guys who Sometimes Have Horns Who Don't. They are all, "Qunari" to the humans, elves, and dwarves.

Because that seems to be ambiguous in purpose. The writers have probably decided if all kossith were qunari or not, but they are doing their best not to tell us until it's revealed properly through the games (or books, comics, whatever). It would be spoilers.

[ShiroDNX]

Herr Uhl: I did not stutter. You did not provide this quote that you say that I have somehow seen. So I have no such information, just as I stated.

Your statement about what I have or have not seen is incorrect.

[Am1vf]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sten said that to make a point about how silly it would be. It wasn't meant to be taken as a statement of fact.

But it still shows an advanced awareness of racial differences - he's not using it as a cultural or religious term, but as a racial one.  It's not like he's going "what's an elf?".  He has a conversation with Zevran about the fact that there are elves placed over humans in Qunari lands.  He's clearly capable of distinguishing people by race.

He is speaking in a foreign language, and probably has a vague grasp of foreign terms. That would lead him to know the distinctions between race. Whether they find it necessary in Qunari language (whatever it is called) is what is relevant. They also don't find a need to use personal names, but he calls people outside of the Qun by them and is aware of the concept.

Meh, the entirity of the social interplay within the Qun is disfunctional to begin with. Think of a military garrison and the commander is calling out for a Sten ... which one does he mean? If there are more than one Sten  present (which is extremely likely given what a Sten is in relation to other military positions!), he'd practically have to describe the one he wants or point at him.


The entire point of language is making the necessity to point at stuff superflous.

It probably doesn't matter  as long as one Sten obeys they're good.

PinkysPain wrote...

Am1_vf wrote...
No, what they have told us is enought for them to write the ingame content and for us to understand it ingame. coming up with solutions to understand each other here in the forums is our role (and our fun) not theirs.

We did and they got pissy about it  I still think they don't want us to name them because they want to use the non Qun Kossith as antagonists at some point ... names are powerful in that respect, without a name for the race no one will even discuss the potential of that race in the story.

Some writers are extremely allergic to on target speculation (Rich Burlew for instance).

Well, I can't be responsible for their allergies. I have said in oter ocassions, if someone doesn't like people dicussing about stuff writing for a fantasy RPG isn't the best career choice.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 04 septembre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Herr Uhl]

ShiroDNX wrote...

Herr Uhl: I did not stutter. You did not provide this quote that you say that I have somehow seen. So I have no such information, just as I stated.

Your statement about what I have or have not seen is incorrect.

It is posted in this thread. I assumed you read it before posting. Here is a link to the post.

http://social.biowar...6974/1#17267048