255 réponses à ce sujet

[sandalisthemaker]

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Kaiser of Hearts wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

And anyway, using the term Qunari to describe the race also breeds confusion.
So many people on this forum have wondered, and some of them still wonder, if they will be a follower of the Qun religion if they choose to play as the tall gray skinned race.

If there is context, then there shouldn't be much confusion.  If you can't realise that we play as the qunari race after they say we can play as the race qunari whilst showing a picture of a Qunari, then I don't even know. 

I personally realize, but when you have a religion called the Qun, whose followers call themselves Qunari, and other characters in the series say that the Qun is a religion, not a race, and then the race proceeds to be called Qunari, it can be confusing. 
The term kossith really is not confusing.  Being a non-Qun following *Qun*ari is.

 

No more than being a jewish person who doesn't practice Judism. 

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

[Wissenschaft]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incorrect scientificly speaking. 

One can say the same thing if we talking about the Roman people of antiquity. Roman refers both to the people and the city. What happens if a Roman never lived or visted the city of Rome. Such as someone who lived in the eastern Roman empire. Do we still call them Roman? Yes we do.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:53 .

[Am1vf]

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incorrect scientificly speaking.

Easy?!! I want to go where you live!

[sandalisthemaker]

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:54 .

[Wissenschaft]

Am1_vf wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incorrect scientificly speaking.

Easy?!! I want to go where you live!

 

Errr, ease of breding though I'm not sure that solves the problem......... I guess its easier for some than others. 

[PinkysPain]

Wissenschaft wrote...
And neither is Kossith.

Well not to you obviously ... for me it is in the same class as human, dwarf and elf ... so yeah, to me it's a race name.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:57 .

[Wissenschaft]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

 

And Kossith were the followers of a culture just as Qunari are a follower of the Qun. But I digress.

[Wissenschaft]

PinkysPain wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...
And neither is Kossith.

Well not to you obviously ... for me it is in the same class as human, dwarf and elf ... so yeah, to me it's a race name.

I don't think care if you disagree, I don't care if Gaider disagrees ... it's how I use it and how most people I care about communicating with interpret it.

 

Ok, as long as your fine with most DA players not knowing what your talking about. Most fans don't read this forum. 

As I said, I'm waiting for the day when someone complains that Kossith are not avalible as a playable race and someone has to explain they are called Qunari in game. I will giggle a little.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 04 septembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

 

And Kossith were the followers of a culture just as Qunari are a follower of the Qun. But I digress.

That's just speculation. 

My point is Qunari =/= race.  This has been established in lore and during the story in DA.
Now they are labeling the race Qunari, while at the same time saying Qunari =/= race.

[PinkysPain]

By the time I get comfortable enough with someone IRL to discuss the intricacies of races in cRPGs, and find they are actually interested in doing so, I can bother to explain what I mean by Kossith ... it's not a situation which comes up that often.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:03 .

[mikeymoonshine]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

Hmm :/ well no. Jewish people are only truly jewish if they have jewish parents or more accurately a jewish mother. So yeh sometimes and especially recently jewish women may have jewish kids from other ethnic backgrounds due to non jewish fathers most jews are gonna "look like jewish people". 

So Jewish describes the religion (which you can convert to sometimes but you won't be considered a true jew I think) and the tribe of jewish people. 

So yeah it's not exactly the same as the qunari but it's a good example of the kind of thing we are talking about. 

Homestly there is no name for the Horned people but outside of the Da world in the real world Qunari works fine unless you wan't to be more specific 

If you do you can say "Qunari the religion" or Vashoth or Tal-Vashoth or bas or whatever  

[Wissenschaft]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

 

And Kossith were the followers of a culture just as Qunari are a follower of the Qun. But I digress.

That's just speculation. 

My point is Qunari =/= race.  This has been established in lore and during the story in DA.
Now they are labeling the race Qunari, while at the same time saying Qunari =/= race.

 

But, but, they have always labeled the race as Qunari..........

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:02 .

[TCBC_Freak]

PinkysPain wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...
And neither is Kossith.

Well not to you obviously ... for me it is in the same class as human, dwarf and elf ... so yeah, to me it's a race name.

It's not about what I think, or what you think. It's about what the Qunari call themselves and what the writers and creators of the world call them.

It's as if you are saying, "I think we should still call Chinese people Oriental," or, "I'm still going to call Native Americans Indians," Or, "people from Iran and Iraq? I'm going to call them all Mesopotamian," it doesn't matter what you want, it matters what the people you are describing want and what the people who created this fictional world have said.

[sandalisthemaker]

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Jewish is no more a race than being Hispanic is. 

 

And neither is Kossith. Thats the point. Though technically there is no such thing as seperate human races. We are all one race (hence the easy of breding with any other human) and our differences are purely cosmetic and cultural. Therefore, any term for seperate human races is incoorect scientificly speaking.

Actually, using your example, Jewish would be analogous to Qunari not Kossith. Judeism is a religion.  The Qun is a religion.
There are white Jewish people,  black Jewish people, Asian Jewish people etc,  in the same way that there are human Qunari, elven Qunari, and kossith Qunari.

 

And Kossith were the followers of a culture just as Qunari are a follower of the Qun. But I digress.

That's just speculation. 

My point is Qunari =/= race.  This has been established in lore and during the story in DA.
Now they are labeling the race Qunari, while at the same time saying Qunari =/= race.

 

But but, they have alaways labeled the race as Qunari..........

No. All of the kossith we had seen in DAO were actually followers of the Qun, so they actually were Qunari.
Come DA2, and we get shown and told multiple times that Qunar=/= race.  That any race can convert and become Qunari.
Also, we are shown Tal-Vashoth.  They are of the same race that the Qunari living in Kirkwall are, but we are told by the Arishok himself that they are not Qunari and are in fact a living insult to the Qun.
Cassandra outright tells Varric that Qunari is a religion not a race duing the MotA DLC. 

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 04 septembre 2013 - 07:07 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

I believe that if the anglo-saxons stopped messing with the mesopotamians, we could see peace in the entire world.

[PinkysPain]

TCBC_Freak wrote...
It's not about what I think, or what you think.

I don't think you understand how language works ...

It's about what the Qunari call themselves and what the writers and creators of the world call them.

I don't care ...

It's as if you are saying, "I think we should still call Chinese people Oriental," or, "I'm still going to call Native Americans Indians," Or, "people from Iran and Iraq? I'm going to call them all Mesopotamian," it doesn't matter what you want, it matters what the people you are describing want and what the people who created this fictional world have said.

Language is defined within context, within groups ... not by central authority.

[Wissenschaft]

PinkysPain wrote...

Language is defined within context, within groups ... not by central authority.

 

LOL, tell that to the French.

[TCBC_Freak]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I believe that if the anglo-saxons stopped messing with the mesopotamians, we could see peace in the entire world.

You'd still have to deal with all those Upper Kingdom folks, the Judites, and the Ottoman's, not to mention the Moores and the Byzantines.. and the Franks and the Normans, always going at each other.

[PinkysPain]

Wissenschaft wrote...
LOL, tell that to the French.

I'll convince them in German.

[TCBC_Freak]

PinkysPain wrote...

TCBC_Freak wrote...
It's not about what I think, or what you think.

I don't think you understand how language works ...

It's about what the Qunari call themselves and what the writers and creators of the world call them.

I don't care ...

It's as if you are saying, "I think we should still call Chinese people Oriental," or, "I'm still going to call Native Americans Indians," Or, "people from Iran and Iraq? I'm going to call them all Mesopotamian," it doesn't matter what you want, it matters what the people you are describing want and what the people who created this fictional world have said.

Language is defined within context, within groups ... not by central authority.

Okay, I'll bite. Context (the world of Dragon Age as crteated by the writers), Groups (the writers [1] the Qunari themselves[2], and the majority of fans [3]... thats 3 groups right there and you are an individual) and not a central authority (such as an, "I'm right your wrong dictatorship...")

So you're own use of what makes language confimrs that we should all call them Qunari.


Oh and, "I don't care..." really good way to make your point seem like it's been reached honestly with clear thought and intent.

[Star fury]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I believe that if the anglo-saxons stopped messing with the mesopotamians, we could see peace in the entire world.

LOL, so true.

[Am1vf]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I believe that if the anglo-saxons stopped messing with the mesopotamians, we could see peace in the entire world.

You'd still have to deal with all those Upper Kingdom folks, the Judites, and the Ottoman's, not to mention the Moores and the Byzantines.. and the Franks and the Normans, always going at each other.

Also, internal conflicts... and internet forums 

[ShiroDNX]

sandalisthemaker: Mark Kirby stated ""Kossith" is an antiquated term, not a technical one. It was used to describe the culture that predated the Qun. It may not have even been the name of a race at all." Am1 has a full quote on the first page of this thread. So, it's not entirely speculation.

[Tootles FTW]

Some of you guys are just being willfully obtuse.  The writers themselves have clarified this ad nauseum, why "kossith" is still being used is beyond me.  Qunari = the horned race, unless context or further discussion indicates otherwise.
If you really need further clarification  for use in personal discussions/debates, at least the perjorative of "oxmen" exists within the game series and hasn't been pointedly slapped down by Bioware.