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[omnitremere]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Mages are brought before a Qunari to be setenced. The executioner asks what is to be done with them. The Qunari says the Qun demands that they be executed. Some people in your keep/party agree with your decision and some don't.

I can understand this example. Lets try something of a bit bigger scope:

How would you deal with the Landsmeet as a Qunari character?

I assume I can skip the Ser Cautherin section as she can easily be slain if she can’t be persuaded without any serious repercussion to the landsmeet.  Also let’s keep in mind I said no additional dialogue or cinematic’s need to be added. So therefore neither Loghains nor the nobles dialogue should actually change. 

Loghain – “What did they offer you? How much is the price of Ferelden honor now?”

Qunari – “The blight is the threat here.  Not Orlais.”

Loghain-“….Once we open our doors to the Chevalier’s can we really expect them to return from whence they came?”

Qunari-“You allowed Rendon Howe to imprison and torture Oswyn Sighard.  He has wounds that are likely beyond even the medical skill of my people.  Travel and hard labor will be difficult if not impossible for him.  How do you justify such waste?”

Loghain-“Howe was responsible for himself.  He will answer to the Maker for any wrongs committed in this life.  As must we all.  But you know that.  You murdered him….there is no justice in butchering a man in his home.”

Qunari-“Then why would you send a Bas Saarebas into Arl Eamon’s home? What cause could you have to even speak to one of their kind? Now neither your words nor your thoughts can be trusted.” or  “You sold slaves to a Bas Saarebas.  How can you claim to protect Ferelden while aiding those who gain their power from demons and chaos?”

Anora takes care of the rest.  The only real change that I see is maybe the Revered Mother doesn’t speak up in your defense if you’re Qunari. And again that’s not adding a cinematic it’s just removing content from that particular discussion.  Other than that it pretty much remains the same.  And yet you’re clearly someone whose speaking as a follower of the Qun.  I’d also like to note in response to In Exile that there’s no reason the persuade has to be greater.  It’s not greater for a dwarf or Elf than it is for a human.  You’re not necessarily trying to convince devout members of the chantry.  These are essentially nobles who want to hold on to their lands and people who want to live another day.  And by this time they already know you have a whole army behind you.  But if it is greater than so be it.

If this example isn’t detailed enough Allan let me know what I’m missing and I’ll add it.  Thanks.

Modifié par I012345, 06 septembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[omnitremere]

*Sorry accidentally made this post*

Modifié par I012345, 06 septembre 2013 - 02:28 .

[thats1evildude]

"Ah! And here is the puppeteer! Tell us, Warden, how the Orlesians plan to take our nation from us? Will they issue their commands from this-"

"Pashera. I do not care for your politics, bas. If you would lead this nation, Loghain, then you shall face me ... NOW!" And then the qunari Warden would just attack the regent openly, causing a massive battle in the Landsmeet.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 06 septembre 2013 - 03:24 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I assume I can skip the Ser Cautherin section as she can easily be slain if she can’t be persuaded without any serious repercussion to the landsmeet. Also let’s keep in mind I said no additional dialogue or cinematic’s need to be added. So therefore neither Loghains nor the nobles dialogue should actually change.

Is that a safe assumption?

In any case, does it actually make sense for the dialogue to be unchanged?

Qunari, in my opinion, are quite a bit different than Elves, Dwarves, or Humans.

Second of all, it doesn't sound like a trivial amount of writing done, even if we could isolate it to just the PC.

[omnitremere]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I assume I can skip the Ser Cautherin section as she can easily be slain if she can’t be persuaded without any serious repercussion to the landsmeet. Also let’s keep in mind I said no additional dialogue or cinematic’s need to be added. So therefore neither Loghains nor the nobles dialogue should actually change.

Is that a safe assumption?

In any case, does it actually make sense for the dialogue to be unchanged?

Qunari, in my opinion, are quite a bit different than Elves, Dwarves, or Humans.

Second of all, it doesn't sound like a trivial amount of writing done, even if we could isolate it to just the PC.

Why wouldn't it be a safe assumption? Even if it's a tougher fight by the end of DAO you're virtually unstoppable.  And that's without your PC being a Qunari.  So even if we assume more lords would join Ser Cautherin to stop what they see as Qunari interference it changes that part of the Landsmeet very little.

Would it be more immersive if the dialogue was changed? Sure.  But I don't think that's a reasonable request especially at this point.  The question becomes does it still work even if the dialogue is unchanged.  And my answer is yes.  

I agree that Qunari are very different from the other races.  Doesn't that only accenuate my point that there should be different dialogue options for them? You're arguing that Qunari are very different from the other races while arguing their dialogue should have little difference at the same time.

I agree 100% that it would be no trivial amount of dialogue.  The questions have been is that effort worth it and does it require changing the overall ingame dialogue/cinematics if they went this route.  I'm arguing that its definitely worth it and would put a choice of Qunari on par with the other races.  I'm also arguing that it would only require changing dialogue for the PC character.  

[Former_Fiend]

I don't particularly want to be a follower of the Qun, but I do want my qunari character to be able to hold some of it's tenets in some respect and be at least somewhat sympathetic to the Qunari viewpoint. In real life I don't adhere to any organized religion, but there are aspects and tenets of several religions that I see value in, and try to incorporate into my own spirituality. I'd like to do something similar with my inquisitor.

[upsettingshorts]

Logically impossible.

To follow the Qun you must be part of the Qunari, philosophically and practically, and be put to use as the Qun demands for the benefit of all Qunari. As an outsider in the Inquisition, you can at best be inspired by its code.

As far as my understanding of it goes, anyway.

[omnitremere]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Logically impossible.

To follow the Qun you must be part of the Qunari, philosophically and practically, and be put to use as the Qun demands for the benefit of all Qunari. As an outsider in the Inquisition, you can at best be inspired by its code.

As far as my understanding of it goes, anyway.

This has been discussed.  Closing a veil tear that is spilling demons out through all of Orlais and Ferelden along with stamping out a mage rebellion while at the same time weakening all of the other races clearly helps the Qunari.  Ignoring veil tears that will only continue spilling out demons and horrible monsters along with allowing blood mages to gain a foothold in additional territories which would probably result in the Tevinter Imperium gaining more power could only serve as a negative for the Qunari people.  Logically what I'm suggesting is very possible.

[sandalisthemaker]

I012345 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Logically impossible.

To follow the Qun you must be part of the Qunari, philosophically and practically, and be put to use as the Qun demands for the benefit of all Qunari. As an outsider in the Inquisition, you can at best be inspired by its code.

As far as my understanding of it goes, anyway.

This has been discussed.  Closing a veil tear that is spilling demons out through all of Orlais and Ferelden along with stamping out a mage rebellion while at the same time weakening all of the other races clearly helps the Qunari.  Ignoring veil tears that will only continue spilling out demons and horrible monsters along with allowing blood mages to gain a foothold in additional territories which would probably result in the Tevinter Imperium gaining more power could only serve as a negative for the Qunari people.  Logically what I'm suggesting is very possible.

I'm still hoping for a way to re-direct the demonic hordes away from Thedas and onto the Par Vollen mainland.
Not going to happen, but one can dream.

[Taveira]

Make it happen Bioware!

[omnitremere]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I012345 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Logically impossible.

To follow the Qun you must be part of the Qunari, philosophically and practically, and be put to use as the Qun demands for the benefit of all Qunari. As an outsider in the Inquisition, you can at best be inspired by its code.

As far as my understanding of it goes, anyway.

This has been discussed.  Closing a veil tear that is spilling demons out through all of Orlais and Ferelden along with stamping out a mage rebellion while at the same time weakening all of the other races clearly helps the Qunari.  Ignoring veil tears that will only continue spilling out demons and horrible monsters along with allowing blood mages to gain a foothold in additional territories which would probably result in the Tevinter Imperium gaining more power could only serve as a negative for the Qunari people.  Logically what I'm suggesting is very possible.

I'm still hoping for a way to re-direct the demonic hordes away from Thedas and onto the Par Vollen mainland.
Not going to happen, but one can dream.

You don't know that.  For all you know they've been agonizing over what ending to give DAI and you just gave it to them.  

[Chashan]

Former_Fiend wrote...

I don't particularly want to be a follower of the Qun, but I do want my qunari character to be able to hold some of it's tenets in some respect and be at least somewhat sympathetic to the Qunari viewpoint. In real life I don't adhere to any organized religion, but there are aspects and tenets of several religions that I see value in, and try to incorporate into my own spirituality. I'd like to do something similar with my inquisitor.

I suppose I could live with that much, at least.

Which still begs the question: how much is there to build upon when Tal-Vashoth, who going by their representation so far do not have much in the way of elaborate culture and philosophy, is the only background for Qunari? Why include the option to play this particular ethnicity when one cannot even approach its namesake philosophy in a manner other than calling a witch hunt, as I see some people here regularly do? Or if it is, as I've seen suggested somewhere, a sort of blank-slate orphan-background neither of Qun nor True Grey origin? Something could be made of that if one is left to explore either philosophy in the course of the game in some capacity, I suppose. But then, it is not exactly the most original of ideas.*

Of course, as we have no specific idea what the entire background-deal will look like in the end we'll have to wait and see, I suppose. Yet, I'll say this concerning one specific set of backgrounds we had in DA:O, namely the Dwarven ones:
The two Orzammar-backgrounds were also embedded into a quite rigidly organized society without little wiggle-room for individuals choice of their station and profession. Other than absence of making full use of the Dwarven Noble's lineage when it came to the question of succession to Orzammar's throne that still worked out.

As I said, BW got a nice opportunity there to show a more nuanced perspective on the people and creed of the Qunari by including them in the playable roster. It wouldn't hurt if they gave it a shot.

*PS: Come to think of it, if BW rolled with an amnesiac type of character as the blank slate on which to draw the PC, they could indeed let players decide more on what type of avatar they wish to play as they are progressing through the game, instead of several preset starting conditions as the origins were. Not an all-new approach to player-made characters, true, but if BW wish to give that a whirl instead of DA1's Origins, I wouldn't fault them for it.

[Urazz]

Chashan wrote...

*PS: Come to think of it, if BW rolled with an amnesiac type of character as the blank slate on which to draw the PC, they could indeed let players decide more on what type of avatar they wish to play as they are progressing through the game, instead of several preset starting conditions as the origins were. Not an all-new approach to player-made characters, true, but if BW wish to give that a whirl instead of DA1's Origins, I wouldn't fault them for it.

They said you can choose different races, not have different origins like in DA:O.  So most likely we are just going to get one origin regardless of race.

[Chari]

While I understand that we'll unlikely be able to play as a true qunari, it would be nice if at least we could ourselves decide how the Inquisitor percieves their homeland
E.g. I don't want to play as an extremist-Tal-vashoth. Vashoth - surely, but not one who hates qunari more than everything else. In my mind my qunari-femme will be neutral, seeing her ex-home as a good place, but preferring the freedom and chaos of Thedas.
It\\s just... we play an RPG game, can we at least decide what our Inqisitor thinks? Or will we have to be that kind of Tal-vashoth who murders and wrecks chaos only? Because if so then there won't be Role Playing in a Role Playing Game

Modifié par Chari, 07 septembre 2013 - 04:50 .

[Clockwork_Wings]

I kind of feel like letting us play racial qunari but not a follower of the qun would be like if in DAO we picked dwarf noble, and got the human noble origin with a line of dialog about being adopted. A lot of wasted worldbuilding potential.

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Mages are brought before a Qunari to be setenced. The executioner asks what is to be done with them. The Qunari says the Qun demands that they be executed. Some people in your keep/party agree with your decision and some don't.

I can understand this example. Lets try something of a bit bigger scope:

How would you deal with the Landsmeet as a Qunari character?

Commence a decapitation strike and instalation of a Qunari governor. (baiscally the 'Warden becomes king ending with a much higher body count.)

OR: temporary truce and alliance against the greater threat now the Qunari know just how dangerous a blight is, which I guess would be 'duel Loghain', to make the point about Qunari power.

None trivial yea, but I cannot imagine that the decision to make qunari playable is only skin deep, and that said qunari is properly plotted in, otherwise why bother?  What attracts alot of people to the Qunari is the Qun, so leaving that out is like leaving out elves pointy ears and good at poverty attributes.


Personally not bothered about Qunari, hoping for an Old God worshipper of the knee deep in blood variety.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:08 .

[Trolldrool]

My Qunari left the Qun because he discovered he wasn't able to agree with all its dogma. How many points did he disagree with? How many did it take for him to come to the conclusion that he longer had a place in Par Vollen? Only 3. He will no longer be of the Qun, but still respects the majority of its teachings and is loathe to call himself Tal Vashoth, even if he accepts that he has become one, as so many Tal Vashoth reject the Qun in its entirety.

This is what I'll use my imagination to pretend is what is going on. That is why I have one after all.
I'm not expecting to get dialogue options that will support a character like this, but I hope we'll be allowed to express approval or disapproval to the way human culture differs from the one our Qunari have left behind.

"Such chaotic behaviour would never be tolerated in the Beresaad and I will not have it in my inquisition either. Discipline these men at once, or I will." (If a new ally has lent soldiers of questionable character to our cause for example.)

Or

"Even the Qun isn't this flawed."