157 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

ev76 wrote...
If the dark spawn (talking ones at least) are allies then I want at least some of the wardens (led by Cory) to be bad guys.

I think both possibilities are intriguing.

[leaguer of one]

Nefla wrote...

It would be retarded and ME3-esque and I hope they don't do it.

Why? It makes perfect sense that thinking anything would help stop the thing trying to destory the world.
I don't see how thinking darkspawn helping close the veil be an issue plot wise.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...

Nefla wrote...

It would be retarded and ME3-esque and I hope they don't do it.

Why? It makes perfect sense that thinking anything would help stop the thing trying to destory the world.
I don't see how thinking darkspawn helping close the veil be an issue plot wise.

The darkspawn are the thing destroying the world. 

[leaguer of one]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I have been saying this for awhile in my "Darkspawn Allies" thread. No 'Pulling a Geth' but possible allies, yes.

How could them being possible allies not be "pulling a geth?"

How is that an issue? And pulling a geth was first done the the werewolves and dragon cult in DA:O.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Nefla wrote...

It would be retarded and ME3-esque and I hope they don't do it.

Why? It makes perfect sense that thinking anything would help stop the thing trying to destory the world.
I don't see how thinking darkspawn helping close the veil be an issue plot wise.

The darkspawn are the thing destroying the world. 

...Because of madness. Thinking Darkspawn don't want to destory the world and want to end all the blights.
Stop being so blacka and white.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:18 .

[Volus Warlord]

leaguer of one wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I have been saying this for awhile in my "Darkspawn Allies" thread. No 'Pulling a Geth' but possible allies, yes.

How could them being possible allies not be "pulling a geth?"

How is that an issue? And pulling a geth was first done the the werewolves and dragon cult in DA:O.

The werewolves and dragon cult we introduced in that game for that game. The geth and the Darkspawn would have been longtime "storm trooper"-esque enemies.

[leaguer of one]

Volus Warlord wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I have been saying this for awhile in my "Darkspawn Allies" thread. No 'Pulling a Geth' but possible allies, yes.

How could them being possible allies not be "pulling a geth?"

How is that an issue? And pulling a geth was first done the the werewolves and dragon cult in DA:O.

The werewolves and dragon cult we introduced in that game for that game. The geth and the Darkspawn would have been longtime "storm trooper"-esque enemies.

So? That make no difference. Added, DA:A changed the game with them already. Awaken darkspawn are not the same as there mindless bretheren.
And awaken darkspawn have a concept of self presevation and logic.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
...Because of madness. Thinking Darkspawn don't want to destory the world and want to end all the blights.
Stop being so blacka and white.

Thinking darkspawn are a threat 1000 times worse than the archdemon. They're the herald of a perpetual blight. The only reason Thedas still exists is that the darkspawn, after the archdemon dies, freak out and break rank to run underground and find another old god. 

With their ability to think, they could wage war until nothing is left. Hell, DA:A shows how dangerous darkspawn could be, and the only thing that even stopped that nightmare was that they were all led by the Mother. 

An actual *nation* of darkspawn would overrun Thedas and there'd be nothing left. 

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
Thing is the Architect's protection of the Qunari merchant kinda already says "Yes, there is a magical way to not spread the Taint to uninfected."

Once again, assuming that was actually true, you've just turned the darkspawn into the geth. Suddenly, they're not disease carrying anti-life abominations. 

Also why does an Awakened HAVE to rape women again? I get that that is how the un-Awakened Darkspawn reproduce, but really, having an Awakened ally automatically means he is raping all females in sight?

Not exterminating the darkspawn means more rapes. Unless they dedicate themselves to a life of eternal celabacy. You know, becoming the geth. Which you said they shouldn't.

Also I will again ask, why would a small group of immortal creatures with sentience; not being driven by some Cuthulu-esque force; need to reproduce? We are talking about an ally to the Inquisitor here, not some baby factory to be used to pump out meat shields. I guess Dagna, Cullen, Cole, Varric, Cassandra, and Morrigan can't be considered allies either, because having allies = knocking a lot of chicks up apparently.

None of those characters would be the end of all life in Thedas if they decided to team up and form a nation.

If a (hypothetical) Awakened Darkspawn ally is (as you say) only going to lead to cannibalism and rape, then siding with the Mages should ONLY lead to Blood Magic, and Demon summoning. Working with the Templars should ONLY lead to the death of all Mages, and the pillaging of defenseless villages. Working with the Qunari should ONLY lead to the subjugation of Thedas. Because ONLY the worst side of an individual being is what will result if you work with them.

You want these things not to be flanderized into the geth, but you also want a heroic darkspawn that won't spread the taint, won't organize mass rapes to build a darkspawn army, will be moral and helpful and... what, exactly?

I'm not going to touch your general whitewashing of what darkspawn are, but just tackle this: how are any of your requests not entirely about turning awakenind darkspawn into Geth? 

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
...Because of madness. Thinking Darkspawn don't want to destory the world and want to end all the blights.
Stop being so blacka and white.

Thinking darkspawn are a threat 1000 times worse than the archdemon. They're the herald of a perpetual blight. The only reason Thedas still exists is that the darkspawn, after the archdemon dies, freak out and break rank to run underground and find another old god. 

With their ability to think, they could wage war until nothing is left. Hell, DA:A shows how dangerous darkspawn could be, and the only thing that even stopped that nightmare was that they were all led by the Mother. 

An actual *nation* of darkspawn would overrun Thedas and there'd be nothing left. 

Nope. Your wrong. Sure, they can be more dangerous than normal darkspawn but they are far from Heralds of anything. Motivation is want pushes them forward, not blood lust. Having them be intellegent is not going to make the blights worse or make them come faster.  The fact we can nagotiate with them mean we can reduce the violence with them. The only issuewith them is they have a different morality then we do...An orange and blue one.
Think about ...Which is worse.. A Storm you can't negotiate away or one you can talk down to go away?

[Han Shot First]

I think the darkspawn as allies only makes sense if the Architect is still alive. Otherwise there is no means to even negotiate with the darkspawn let alone recruit them as allies.

With that in mind, my guess is that they won't be involved in the veil tear plot.

[Sejborg]

Kharaide wrote...

i do not want a pack of krusty the clowns on my team

Good point. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I want the messenger back. He's probably got the most interesting story in the entirety of thedas. Well, maybe after cole.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
Thing is the Architect's protection of the Qunari merchant kinda already says "Yes, there is a magical way to not spread the Taint to uninfected."

Once again, assuming that was actually true, you've just turned the darkspawn into the geth. Suddenly, they're not disease carrying anti-life abominations. 

Also why does an Awakened HAVE to rape women again? I get that that is how the un-Awakened Darkspawn reproduce, but really, having an Awakened ally automatically means he is raping all females in sight?

Not exterminating the darkspawn means more rapes. Unless they dedicate themselves to a life of eternal celabacy. You know, becoming the geth. Which you said they shouldn't.

Also I will again ask, why would a small group of immortal creatures with sentience; not being driven by some Cuthulu-esque force; need to reproduce? We are talking about an ally to the Inquisitor here, not some baby factory to be used to pump out meat shields. I guess Dagna, Cullen, Cole, Varric, Cassandra, and Morrigan can't be considered allies either, because having allies = knocking a lot of chicks up apparently.

None of those characters would be the end of all life in Thedas if they decided to team up and form a nation.

If a (hypothetical) Awakened Darkspawn ally is (as you say) only going to lead to cannibalism and rape, then siding with the Mages should ONLY lead to Blood Magic, and Demon summoning. Working with the Templars should ONLY lead to the death of all Mages, and the pillaging of defenseless villages. Working with the Qunari should ONLY lead to the subjugation of Thedas. Because ONLY the worst side of an individual being is what will result if you work with them.

You want these things not to be flanderized into the geth, but you also want a heroic darkspawn that won't spread the taint, won't organize mass rapes to build a darkspawn army, will be moral and helpful and... what, exactly?

I'm not going to touch your general whitewashing of what darkspawn are, but just tackle this: how are any of your requests not entirely about turning awakenind darkspawn into Geth? 

1. And the issue with that is?

2.When did they do that?

3.That does nto automaticly mean the end of all life in thadus. It more ensure if they stayed mindless.

4.What's the issue with them becaoming more like the geth? Intelegence means the chance of different opions. And Awaken darkspawn are intellegent as well as capable of bothe good and evil. The fact that they have that capablity means we can use them. As to while they are still mindless we just have an ensure enemy at a different front.

[leaguer of one]

Han Shot First wrote...

I think the darkspawn as allies only makes sense if the Architect is still alive. Otherwise there is no means to even negotiate with the darkspawn let alone recruit them as allies.

With that in mind, my guess is that they won't be involved in the veil tear plot.

Of cousre they will be involved ...Based on the players past choice.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Your wrong. Sure, they can be more dangerous than normal darkspawn but they are far from Heralds of anything. Motivation is want pushes them forward, not blood lust. Having them be intellegent is not going to make the blights worse or make them come faster.  

Do you know what a blight is? It's a giant congregation of darkspawn that mass on the surface. The blights don't need an archdemon to become one if [b]something else can lead them[b/]. It the darkspawn decide they don't want to live in the deep roads, that's it. Game over. 

The fact we can nagotiate with them mean we can reduce the violence with them. The only issuewith them is they have a different morality then we do...An orange and blue one.
Think about ...Which is worse.. A Storm you can't negotiate away or one you can talk down to go away? 

No darkspawn has ever negotiated with us. The Architect lied (i) masssacred and murdered everyone in Vigil's Keep and (ii) stunned and kidnapped the Warden. When none of that worked, he tried to team up with you at the Dragonbone wastes. 

His actual plan in the Calling was to turn every single living being in Thedas into a ghoul. 

Making them unstopabble is not a way to prevent a storm. It's like saying that an apocalypse cult would be much nicer to you if you gave them WMDs. Maybe, but they'll still kill everything. 

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. And the issue with that is?

2.When did they do that?

3.That does nto automaticly mean the end of all life in thadus. It more ensure if they stayed mindless.

4.What's the issue with them becaoming more like the geth? Intelegence means the chance of different opions. And Awaken darkspawn are intellegent as well as capable of bothe good and evil. The fact that they have that capablity means we can use them. As to while they are still mindless we just have an ensure enemy at a different front.

The poster I was debating with said they should be your allies without turning into the geth. That would mean being OK with cannibalistic rape. 

But even if they somehow did try to take the edge off the darkspawn, it doesn't work. The darkspawn could eradicate all life in Thedas on a whim. Conspiring to make that even more likely is an insane and stupid strategy. It's like giving the other side WMDs while actively dismantling every single means you have to stop their use or counterattack. 

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Your wrong. Sure, they can be more dangerous than normal darkspawn but they are far from Heralds of anything. Motivation is want pushes them forward, not blood lust. Having them be intellegent is not going to make the blights worse or make them come faster.  

Do you know what a blight is? It's a giant congregation of darkspawn that mass on the surface. The blights don't need an archdemon to become one if [b]something else can lead them[b/]. It the darkspawn decide they don't want to live in the deep roads, that's it. Game over. 

The fact we can nagotiate with them mean we can reduce the violence with them. The only issuewith them is they have a different morality then we do...An orange and blue one.
Think about ...Which is worse.. A Storm you can't negotiate away or one you can talk down to go away? 

No darkspawn has ever negotiated with us. The Architect lied (i) masssacred and murdered everyone in Vigil's Keep and (ii) stunned and kidnapped the Warden. When none of that worked, he tried to team up with you at the Dragonbone wastes. 

His actual plan in the Calling was to turn every single living being in Thedas into a ghoul. 

Making them unstopabble is not a way to prevent a storm. It's like saying that an apocalypse cult would be much nicer to you if you gave them WMDs. Maybe, but they'll still kill everything. 

1. I think you're missing a few key thing's in your arguement. Yes, a blight needs an archdemon. It's the only thing that can control that much darkspwn...Even the awaken ones have a limit to how much they can control.
And you're missing a key not thing about war....Need. What need would the dark spawn whant with the surface when they as a race is sensitive to light?

2.That was not a lie. You're not getting the fact here that they have a different morality then we do. That was a miss understanding. If he was really a problem he would of never helped us with the mother and warn us about her amries and he would of sent his armies to clean up ours after dealing with the mothers.

[leaguer of one]

Foshizzlin wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Why do people keep wanting to pull a Geth with the darkspawn? They're bloodthirsty monsters that spread pestilence and pollute the land just by existing.

Because da:a change the game on their nature.

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. And the issue with that is?

2.When did they do that?

3.That does nto automaticly mean the end of all life in thadus. It more ensure if they stayed mindless.

4.What's the issue with them becaoming more like the geth? Intelegence means the chance of different opions. And Awaken darkspawn are intellegent as well as capable of bothe good and evil. The fact that they have that capablity means we can use them. As to while they are still mindless we just have an ensure enemy at a different front.

The poster I was debating with said they should be your allies without turning into the geth. That would mean being OK with cannibalistic rape. 

But even if they somehow did try to take the edge off the darkspawn, it doesn't work. The darkspawn could eradicate all life in Thedas on a whim. Conspiring to make that even more likely is an insane and stupid strategy. It's like giving the other side WMDs while actively dismantling every single means you have to stop their use or counterattack. 

Here's the point your not getting.... What ever you do, the darkspawn are capable of wiping all life on thedus in a whim even when they are mindless. The difference here is giving them intelligence gives them different idiologies, beleifs and wants. With that they can be manipulated unlike before. And even than with all the differences they have they would fight among themselves like with the architects forces and the mother's. It not an automatic doomed world with them able to think. With them not able to think it's a guarrantee.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. I think you're missing a few key thing's in your arguement. Yes, a blight needs an archdemon. It's the only thing that can control that much darkspwn...Even the awaken ones have a limit to how much they can control.
And you're missing a key not thing about war....Need. What need would the dark spawn whant with the surface when they as a race is sensitive to light?

If what happened with Velanna's people is any indication, because it's fun to watch us die. But hell, it might be that the darkspawn split off into factions and have some tribal war. Suddenly they need to replenish their numbers, which means kidnapping and raping women to make more darkspawn. And they need a fresh factory of living non-darkspawn to turn into Grey Wardens and then milk for their blood to become awakend in the first place.

2.That was not a lie. You're not getting the fact here that they have a different morality then we do. That was a miss understanding. If he was really a problem he would of never helped us with the mother and warn us about her amries and he would of sent his armies to clean up ours after dealing with the mothers. 

Even if we somehow assume that the Architect abandoned his plan and wants nothing more than hugs and roses, we proved two things: (i) lots of awakend go completely nusts, which is how we got the mother ,(ii) he can't control his own forces, which is why everyone in Vigil is dead, and (iii) he often doesn't care the kind of death and suffering he inflicts if it achieves his goal.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
Here's the point your not getting.... What ever you do, the darkspawn are capable of wiping all life on thedus in a whim even when they are mindless. The difference here is giving them intelligence gives them different idiologies, beleifs and wants. With that they can be manipulated unlike before. And even than with all the differences they have they would fight among themselves like with the architects forces and the mother's. It not an automatic doomed world with them able to think. With them not able to think it's a guarrantee. 

With them not being able to think, we don't know what they'll do when the archdemons are gone. At the very least we have centuries left to find a way to exterminate them. By making them thinking, you've surrendered any military advantage you might have over them. 

[Secretlyapotato]

I say they go the full mile. If you didn't spare the architect then you get no darkspawn forces and thus the world gets taken over by demons regardless of your efforts. =D

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
Here's the point your not getting.... What ever you do, the darkspawn are capable of wiping all life on thedus in a whim even when they are mindless. The difference here is giving them intelligence gives them different idiologies, beleifs and wants. With that they can be manipulated unlike before. And even than with all the differences they have they would fight among themselves like with the architects forces and the mother's. It not an automatic doomed world with them able to think. With them not able to think it's a guarrantee. 

With them not being able to think, we don't know what they'll do when the archdemons are gone. At the very least we have centuries left to find a way to exterminate them. By making them thinking, you've surrendered any military advantage you might have over them. 

Please, we already had cnturies to solve it. It's not going to happen on the whime. We had all of teventer on that problem for a time...Suddenely because of chance it's going to happen? We lose nothing by having them be able to think. Heck, they can't even agree amung themselves to direction for there race yet  your worried they might banned together and come to the surface just because?