157 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

I wouldn't stop ya. Most of them aren't awakened, so they're basically hive mind slaves for the old gods.

And a lot of those that are, don't seem to take too well to the change. Kinda like the joining really, except instead of dying, you go insane and rabid.

[leaguer of one]

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

You mean the fact the the veil is torn and they can help fight the demons and the fact they can help end the blights?

[leaguer of one]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

I wouldn't stop ya. Most of them aren't awakened, so they're basically hive mind slaves for the old gods.

And a lot of those that are, don't seem to take too well to the change. Kinda like the joining really, except instead of dying, you go insane and rabid.

Most of the awaken don't go insane.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Out of curiosity, can demons possess darkspawns? I mean they can possess dead corpses, mages and even templars but I don't remember any demon controlling a darkspawn.

[leaguer of one]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Out of curiosity, can demons possess darkspawns? I mean they can possess dead corpses, mages and even templars but I don't remember any demon controlling a darkspawn.

Only their corpses.

[Cainhurst Crow]

leaguer of one wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

I wouldn't stop ya. Most of them aren't awakened, so they're basically hive mind slaves for the old gods.

And a lot of those that are, don't seem to take too well to the change. Kinda like the joining really, except instead of dying, you go insane and rabid.

Most of the awaken don't go insane.

Well, I count the mother as being insane, and all her darkspawn pawns as being insane as well.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 05 septembre 2013 - 07:12 .

[leaguer of one]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

I wouldn't stop ya. Most of them aren't awakened, so they're basically hive mind slaves for the old gods.

And a lot of those that are, don't seem to take too well to the change. Kinda like the joining really, except instead of dying, you go insane and rabid.

Most of the awaken don't go insane.

Well, I count the mother as being insane, and all her darkspawn pawns as being insane as well.

She was insane but her pawns were not. The first from black marsh was claerly not insane.

[Thresh the Qunari]

maybe one with free will like awakening but as the horde most likely no

[Palidane]

leaguer of one wrote...

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

You mean the fact the the veil is torn and they can help fight the demons and the fact they can help end the blights?

Ok, so I'm going to try and visualize your plan. Feel free to correct me at any point:

So, we're going to go to the Awakened Supreme Overlord of all Darkspawn (who doesn't exist, besides the Archdemons), who can be reasoned with and is interested in making peace (which seems extremely unlikely, or lethally double-edged), and propose an alliance. We hand out a bunch of anti-blight relics (that do not exist) to millions of Darkspawn, who we then make Awoken by using blood from Grey Wardens (of which there are about 3000, tops). Then all the Awkened Darkspawn join our cause, because they are pacifists (because there are so many Darkspawn pacifists, am I right?). Then the massive army of blight-less, Awoken, pacifist, not-reproducing Darkspawn march to the surface so they can fight the demons. They'll make up the casualties someway that does not involve Broodmothers (even though no such way exists). And in return for all this, we will give them absolutely nothing.

You know, that plan doesn't sound half bad, but allow me to propose an alternative:
We kill every single Demon that comes out of the rift, while also killing every single Darkspawn we can find.
A bit basic, I admit, but it seems elegant in it's simplicity.

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
You mean the fact the the veil is torn and they can help fight the demons and the fact they can help end the blights?

They are the blight. A blight isn't an archdemon. It's the massed army of darkspawn that taints the land and sky and that tears through the kingdoms of Thedas like they were paper. Without an archdemon to lead them a horde is useless ... but an awakened horde doesn't need an archdemon to become a blight.

Awaken the darkspawn, and you will have a never ending threat of blights. The blights will only end when every last darkspawn is dead. 

Understand that morality is is not relative, it's subjective and it can be learned. All being of nature have the insticts for violence one way or another. Through moraly we can ether enhance that desire or quell it. I seen many times other races in da with the same joy of killing. The fact that awaken darkspawn can learn they can learn to see that it's wrong. It's a case a child enjoy taking off the legs of insect and the parent teaching them it's not right.

I'm not going to derail this with an IRL discussion, but studies indicate that you're wrong when you cross the border into sociopathic torture. 

Modifié par In Exile, 05 septembre 2013 - 07:24 .

[In Exile]

Palidane wrote...
Ok, so I'm going to try and visualize your plan. Feel free to correct me at any point:

So, we're going to go to the Awakened Supreme Overlord of all Darkspawn (who doesn't exist, besides the Archdemons), who can be reasoned with and is interested in making peace (which seems extremely unlikely, or lethally double-edged), and propose an alliance. We hand out a bunch of anti-blight relics (that do not exist) to millions of Darkspawn, who we then make Awoken by using blood from Grey Wardens (of which there are about 3000, tops). Then all the Awkened Darkspawn join our cause, because they are pacifists (because there are so many Darkspawn pacifists, am I right?). Then the massive army of blight-less, Awoken, pacifist, not-reproducing Darkspawn march to the surface so they can fight the demons. They'll make up the casualties someway that does not involve Broodmothers (even though no such way exists). And in return for all this, we will give them absolutely nothing.

You know, that plan doesn't sound half bad, but allow me to propose an alternative:
We kill every single Demon that comes out of the rift, while also killing every single Darkspawn we can find.
A bit basic, I admit, but it seems elegant in it's simplicity.

Okay, that post is made of win. Tip of the hat to you. Tip of the hat. 

Modifié par In Exile, 05 septembre 2013 - 07:26 .

[leaguer of one]

Palidane wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Palidane wrote...

I still haven't heard a single good reason why shouldn't just kill them all. I mean, that's worked out pretty well so far, right?

You mean the fact the the veil is torn and they can help fight the demons and the fact they can help end the blights?

Ok, so I'm going to try and visualize your plan. Feel free to correct me at any point:

So, we're going to go to the Awakened Supreme Overlord of all Darkspawn (who doesn't exist, besides the Archdemons), who can be reasoned with and is interested in making peace (which seems extremely unlikely, or lethally double-edged), and propose an alliance. We hand out a bunch of anti-blight relics (that do not exist) to millions of Darkspawn, who we then make Awoken by using blood from Grey Wardens (of which there are about 3000, tops). Then all the Awkened Darkspawn join our cause, because they are pacifists (because there are so many Darkspawn pacifists, am I right?). Then the massive army of blight-less, Awoken, pacifist, not-reproducing Darkspawn march to the surface so they can fight the demons. They'll make up the casualties someway that does not involve Broodmothers (even though no such way exists). And in return for all this, we will give them absolutely nothing.

You know, that plan doesn't sound half bad, but allow me to propose an alternative:
We kill every single Demon that comes out of the rift, while also killing every single Darkspawn we can find.
A bit basic, I admit, but it seems elegant in it's simplicity.

You don't know about the awakened dark spawn and the architect?
I'm only saying to make a deal with the awaken darkspawn that are willing to work with us...That's just the architect and his forces for now. Even then that just a small percentage of the dark spawn. Even then that is an advantage being that they can clear the dark roads is ways wardens can't which allows the wardean to reach teh know places of the old gods. And thes atifact do exsist being that the architect made and used the in the calling.
I never said the darkspawn are pasifist or that once awaken they will 100%work with us but it's better then have no chance  with an alliance with a mindless horde.

Sure, this is not peace with all darkspawn, most are mindless. But the mindless ones we can get peace with an give us advantages we would not have like being able to get to places in the deep road we could never get to before.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 05 septembre 2013 - 07:29 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
You mean the fact the the veil is torn and they can help fight the demons and the fact they can help end the blights?

They are the blight. A blight isn't an archdemon. It's the massed army of darkspawn that taints the land and sky and that tears through the kingdoms of Thedas like they were paper. Without an archdemon to lead them a horde is useless ... but an awakened horde doesn't need an archdemon to become a blight.

Awaken the darkspawn, and you will have a never ending threat of blights. The blights will only end when every last darkspawn is dead. 

You say that like we don't already have a never ending threat of blights.

[Mykel54]

I have a better plan: deal with the demons to get their help against the darkspawn. Also bring Avernus as supreme commander of the demon host.

[leaguer of one]

Mykel54 wrote...

I have a better plan: deal with the demons to get their help against the darkspawn. Also bring Avernus as supreme commander of the demon host.

That's forgeting that demons are more uncontrolable then darkspawn and we want to close the veil.

[In Exile]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
You say that like we don't already have a never ending threat of blights.

Right now, we have 3 archdemons left. Killing one will end a blight. We won't have this magic bullet anymore with awakened darkspawn. If they wage war, we die. The blight won't end. 

[In Exile]

leaguer of one wrote...
That's forgeting that demons are more uncontrolable then darkspawn and we want to close the veil.

Tevinter controlled demons just fine for centuries. Mages control demons all the time. There are screw-ups, sure, but nothing compared to the darkspawn. 

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
You say that like we don't already have a never ending threat of blights.

Right now, we have 3 archdemons left. Killing one will end a blight. We won't have this magic bullet anymore with awakened darkspawn. If they wage war, we die. The blight won't end. 

What indicates that the darkspawn will stop exsisting if the old gods are gone?

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
That's forgeting that demons are more uncontrolable then darkspawn and we want to close the veil.

Tevinter controlled demons just fine for centuries. Mages control demons all the time. There are screw-ups, sure, but nothing compared to the darkspawn. 

They control the weaker ones. But the stronger ones they are fodder to. The only thing that hold the strong ones back are the deals mages can make with them. With that they are always trying to posses mages.

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
Thing is the Architect's protection of the Qunari merchant kinda already says "Yes, there is a magical way to not spread the Taint to uninfected."

Once again, assuming that was actually true, you've just turned the darkspawn into the geth. Suddenly, they're not disease carrying anti-life abominations. 

Also why does an Awakened HAVE to rape women again? I get that that is how the un-Awakened Darkspawn reproduce, but really, having an Awakened ally automatically means he is raping all females in sight?

Not exterminating the darkspawn means more rapes. Unless they dedicate themselves to a life of eternal celabacy. You know, becoming the geth. Which you said they shouldn't.

Also I will again ask, why would a small group of immortal creatures with sentience; not being driven by some Cuthulu-esque force; need to reproduce? We are talking about an ally to the Inquisitor here, not some baby factory to be used to pump out meat shields. I guess Dagna, Cullen, Cole, Varric, Cassandra, and Morrigan can't be considered allies either, because having allies = knocking a lot of chicks up apparently.

None of those characters would be the end of all life in Thedas if they decided to team up and form a nation.

If a (hypothetical) Awakened Darkspawn ally is (as you say) only going to lead to cannibalism and rape, then siding with the Mages should ONLY lead to Blood Magic, and Demon summoning. Working with the Templars should ONLY lead to the death of all Mages, and the pillaging of defenseless villages. Working with the Qunari should ONLY lead to the subjugation of Thedas. Because ONLY the worst side of an individual being is what will result if you work with them.

You want these things not to be flanderized into the geth, but you also want a heroic darkspawn that won't spread the taint, won't organize mass rapes to build a darkspawn army, will be moral and helpful and... what, exactly?

I'm not going to touch your general whitewashing of what darkspawn are, but just tackle this: how are any of your requests not entirely about turning awakenind darkspawn into Geth? 

'Pulling a Geth' is more in reference to the ME 3 Geth then the Geth overall, but I will explain why my points of possible Awakened allies will not turn them into 'Fantasy Geth'.

Not Spreading the Taint 

On the surface this would appear to be a 'softening up' of the Darkspawns' character, a way to make them appear more friendly. But, every time I have brought up this subject, I never said that magical resistience to the Taint was the complete removal of it. The Taint could be suppressed so as to not kill everything around the Darkspawn, but it is still there; the corruption is still in the person doing the suppressing, the Darkspawn and the Taint are synonomous.

Does this mean that they are still a potential danger to Thedas?

Yes. But you know a Mage is a potential threat to Thedas as well as a demon, and the Qun, and Tevinter, ect.

So the Taint; of a select few Darkspawn is manipultated in a way so as not to be the insta death of those near the individual, that doesn't mean Darkspawn = The Geth. If anything its a way of explaining lore to gameplay inconsitiencies; I mean you and your companions in both games (DA:O/DA:A moreso than DA 2) regularly fought Darkspawn, were completly covered in Darkspawn blood when fighting them, and the vast majority of the player's companions were not Grey Wardens.

I know that the World of Thedas says that the Taint is the anthema (sp?) of life itself, but the same company also has lore talking about how non-Wardens would fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and not suffer any ill effects. For example, 'Emperor Kordillus Drakon I' was a non-Warden ruler who fought the Darkspawn during the Second Blight, and actually had to break the siege of Weisshaupt to help the Grey Wardens; and he died of old age.

People interacting with Awakened Darkspawn, on a non hostile level, should actually have a better chance of not being infected vs. a person fighting the regular Darkspawn; who are not suppressing the Taint mind you.


Being Celebate

An Awakened not interested in reproducing does not make the Darkspawn like the Geth; in fact, if you think about it, the Geth wanted to increase their numbers for the better proccessing power it provided; but that is getting off topic.

So a character who doesn't become fruitful and multiply is suddenly a white washed good guy? Lohgain and Saren must be totally cool then, since they didn't want to make babies and only wanted to increase their power.

But isn't making a bunch of Brood Mothers a way to increase a Darkspawn's power?

Yes it is, and I have never said that such a thing wouldn't happen. But you do know that there are far more subtle ways of increasing one's power right?

The Taint is increadibly virulent, but it is also incredibly powerful; in fact it is more powerful then Blood Magic (which is even more powerful than standard magic), since it doesn't have the same limitations and/or requirments. Do you know that an imortal being; who isn't dividing it's attention between raping females, and keeping the resulting un-Awakened Darkspawn in line, preventing them from leading heroes to his very lair; could become very powerful at manipulating said magic?

Eeegads! What a horrible monster! Having a Darkspawn with mastery over his Taint is the downfall of Thedas! 

True, that is quite possible, but then what about all of those increadibly powerful Mages the player has allied with; and leveled up, making them even more powerful; in the past? They have incredible power, power with the potential to destroy Thedas, why would we ever consider allying with people that are gods compared to the mundane folk? Because they can help us, and because most of them (minus the exception of Anders) have no interest in destroying the world or causing destruction. Same thing with a possible Awakened ally, just because they have incredible power doesn't mean that they have to use it in an evil way, and that doesn't make the Darkspawn = The Geth.

If not raping people and not using one's incredible power for evil is 'Pulling a Geth' then so is every single Mage you meet who isn't raping people or using their magic for evil.

Being Moral/Heroic

Saying that an Awakened Darkspawn who doesn't kill people, or defeneds a city from attackers is whitewashing said Darkspawn is incredibly asinine. Going by that logic, a group of mercinaries that you pay to protect your village would be whitewashed, because: "Hey those swords for hire aren't being opressive or the agressors here, it must be becase the narritive wants us to see all mercenaries as the good guys." 

Just because a Darkspawn doesn't want to rape, kill and pilliage everything in sight does not make him the white washed, poor misunderstood monster. We are dealing with an intelligent Darkspawn after all, its would be obvious (even if the Darkspawn was secretly 'lolzevil') that attacking, and raping the people you are trying to work with (or manipulate) is not the best of ways to get their help.

Also, the Messenger outside Ameranthie did not show any signs of being white washed; he didn't apolozie for what he was, or try and justify his existence; he mearly offered help. Now if you want to believe that he had an alterior motive for doing what he did, thats fine, but just because he offered (and provides assistance, should you accept it) doesn't mean that the narritive has 'Pulled a Geth'.

Heroic, is a realitive term in DA, and in DA: Inquistion in particular, helping another to defeat the monsters trying to destroy everything is not nessesarily heroic.

-- As clarification to the OP's question of this thread. I don't expect/want Darkspawn to be a vital ally in closing the Veil; something that is forced apon the player regardless of past choices (a la the Rachni in ME 3), but I do want to see them as a possibility. --

[Wozearly]

Serpentigenae wrote...

Highly unlikely, I'm guessing allying with the Architect (if he's even alive in your game) is not something most sane people would do unless they were truly desperate and felt they had no other options. The simple reason being the fact that we don't really know all of his motives.

I'm not sure our characters entirely knew or trusted the motives of Harrowmont, Bhelen, the Lady, Zathriel, Velanna, Leliana, Morrigan (etc.) but the need to forge allies capable of defeating the darkspawn threat might have triumphed over potential concerns about what they might do in the future.

You're right that the main concern with the Architect is whether his stated motives are, truly, all there is...or, indeed, whether the risks associated with his efforts are simply too great to consider. But aside from leading a force that's arguably more dangerous and more controversial than most others, he didn't betray those who sided with him, and didn't kill the Warden when he had the chance.

He may not have earned many (if any) Wardens' trust, but neither has he shown that he can't be trusted. But its unlikely he'd be major in Inquisition, as in many cases he's probably a corpse.

[El Dude 9]

I would rather see a battle of the seven army's type thing (I think that what it was called in the hobbit) where the darkspawn are fighting a common enemy with you but at the same time there not on your side. But I do however think that if the Architect is alive you should be able to get a small army of them. But that would be nothing compared to the main hoard (Like 300).

[saMoorai]

Well, since They Grey Wardens and the Awakened Darkspawn are allies if you spare the Architect, this might actually be a possibility.

No way would they be vital though.

[In Exile]

[quote]Vortex13 wrote...
'Pulling a Geth' is more in reference to the ME 3 Geth then the Geth overall, but I will explain why my points of possible Awakened allies will not turn them into 'Fantasy Geth'. [/quote]

Okay.


[quote]On the surface this would appear to be a 'softening up' of the Darkspawns' character, a way to make them appear more friendly. But, every time I have brought up this subject, I never said that magical resistience to the Taint was the complete removal of it. The Taint could be suppressed so as to not kill everything around the Darkspawn, but it is still there; the corruption is still in the person doing the suppressing, the Darkspawn and the Taint are synonomous. [/quote]

You're wrong. The taint is the disease that sucks the life out of the land, blots out the sky, and drives any non-darkspawn infected with it insane and turns them into ghouls. If you introduce some kind of magical talism that maeks all of that go away - that completely and entirely isolates it to the darkspawn - then you've removed it.

Because then the taint is anything more than some magical life force that allows the darkspawn to be immortal. It's not a "taint" anymore in any way that was relevantly similar to what it was before. 

It the darkspawn can mass on the surface without poisoning the land, blotting out the sky, and creating ghouls, then you've turned them into something else. 


[quote]Yes. But you know a Mage is a potential threat to Thedas as well as a demon, and the Qun, and Tevinter, ect.  [/quote]

That's just a wordgame. The darkspawn aren't just a danger. They're the danger.

Mages don't reproduce through canibalism and rape. Mages existing doesn't poison the land or blot out the sun. Mages living in the Anderfells for a centure doesn't turn the place into a wasteland so desolate that nothing will ever grow there again. 

Of course, your solution to all of this is a magical talisman that makes all of the effects of the taint go away. The problem is the one I outlined above. But let's say this does happen. So what? 

The darkspawn could just switch their taint into "off" mode and poison the land around them. They could destory our entire ability to make food, and they could wage biological warfare on a scale that's imposible to the rest of Thedas.

That doesn't even address the way they can tunnel underground, which has repeatedly been proven in both D:A and DA:O to render fortifications unseless. 


[quote]So the Taint; of a select few Darkspawn is manipultated in a way so as not to be the insta death of those near the individual, that doesn't mean Darkspawn = The Geth. If anything its a way of explaining lore to gameplay inconsitiencies; I mean you and your companions in both games (DA:O/DA:A moreso than DA 2) regularly fought Darkspawn, were completly covered in Darkspawn blood when fighting them, and the vast majority of the player's companions were not Grey Wardens.  [/quote]

Oh, so we're limiting it to "select" darkspawn? Then how does that make the problem of the taint go away? They're still raping and diseasing the land through their very existence. 


[quote]I know that the World of Thedas says that the Taint is the anthema (sp?) of life itself, but the same company also has lore talking about how non-Wardens would fight the Darkspawn on a regular basis and not suffer any ill effects. For example, 'Emperor Kordillus Drakon I' was a non-Warden ruler who fought the Darkspawn during the Second Blight, and actually had to break the siege of Weisshaupt to help the Grey Wardens; and he died of old age.  [/quote]

One person not dying of the taint doesn't change what mass darkspawn do to the land. If the taint automatically infected everyone it was around, then Thedas would have ceased to exist during the 100s of years the First Blight raged before GWs. 

You seem to think that I'm objecting to the taint because I think it has some 100% infection rate. You're wrong. I'm objecting to it because a mass of darkspawn will anihilate all life on the surface just by being there. 


[quote]An Awakened not interested in reproducing does not make the Darkspawn like the Geth; in fact, if you think about it, the Geth wanted to increase their numbers for the better proccessing power it provided; but that is getting off topic. [/quote]

Where was the part where more geth mean canibalism and a rape so horrible you'd have people clamour for the death sentence to be reinstated if it happened IRL?


[quote]So a character who doesn't become fruitful and multiply is suddenly a white washed good guy? Lohgain and Saren must be totally cool then, since they didn't want to make babies and only wanted to increase their power. [/quote]

What is this nonsense? The Awakened reproduce through rape. Some inane analogy to Loghain or Saren doesn't change the fact that more darkspawn means forceful rape, cannibalism and death. Own up to that, at least. 

 You whitewash the darkspawn when you ignore the fact that every single darkspawn with met - aside from the Messenger - has done things that are so vile and evil that they'd be guilty of the worst crimes that exist IRL. [quote]The Taint is increadibly virulent, but it is also incredibly powerful; in fact it is more powerful then Blood Magic (which is even more powerful than standard magic), since it doesn't have the same limitations and/or requirments. Do you know that an imortal being; who isn't dividing it's attention between raping females, and keeping the resulting un-Awakened Darkspawn in line, preventing them from leading heroes to his very lair; could become very powerful at manipulating said magic? [/quote]

What does this have to do with the cannibalistic rape that the darkspawn engage in? All I see is an explanation of how in a few centuries the Awakened Darkspawn could become such a threat that nothing could contain them.

[quote]True, that is quite possible, but then what about all of those increadibly powerful Mages the player has allied with; and leveled up, making them even more powerful; in the past?  [/quote]

First off, gameplay =! reality, unless you're going to suggest every GW can kill about 1500 people alone (based on my average DA:O+DA:A + DLC killcount).  Secondly, you just argued above that the taint is even more powerful than BM. 

[quote]They have incredible power, power with the potential to destroy Thedas, why would we ever consider allying with people that are gods compared to the mundane folk? Because they can help us, and because most of them (minus the exception of Anders) have no interest in destroying the world or causing destruction.  [/quote]

There's no analogy between mages and darkspawn. A kingdom of mages doesn't poison the land. Mages don't multiply through rape. 

[quote]Saying that an Awakened Darkspawn who doesn't kill people, or defeneds a city from attackers is whitewashing said Darkspawn is incredibly asinine.  [/quote]

No. That's not what I said. What I said was that you are whitewashing them by suggesting that despite all the evidence we've had in-game that every single darkspawn expect the Messenger rapes, kills and murders for fun that they would magically stop doing that as an entire group of people is somehow still lore consistet.

Even the Architect, when defending what happened with the Vigil, blames it on what awakened darkspawn are. And that's ignoring how his own darkspawn also started the trouble with the elves and caravans for fun!. 

[quote]Just because a Darkspawn doesn't want to rape, kill and pilliage everything in sight does not make him the white washed, poor misunderstood monster. We are dealing with an intelligent Darkspawn after all, its would be obvious (even if the Darkspawn was secretly 'lolzevil') that attacking, and raping the people you are trying to work with (or manipulate) is not the best of ways to get their help.[/quote]

The darkspawn aren't secretly evil. Everything they do is evil! The posterboy for "reasonable" darkspawn doesn't give a **** about consent and hapily manupiulates and abuses the people who are willing to help him. And he's the good one!

The only - only - darkspawn we've seen with a shred of moral fibre is the Messenger. And you can't judge an entire group of peopl based on one person, whether that person is a saint or Satan himself.

Modifié par In Exile, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[TataJojo]

The Messenger ! I liked him ! He was even said to be quite nice and helpful in the epilogue if you spare him. I could see another awakened darkspawn being met at some point, investigating these veil tears. He could be helped or killed or whatever. That would be enough to make me happy and not too over the top.