74 réponses à ce sujet

[JCAP]

In previous titles, all bloodmages (maybe except Jowan and Merril) were crazy power hungry "HARRRR I AM GONNA KILL YOU BECAUSE I WANT YOUR BLOOD!!!!"

I understand why most bloodmages are power hungry that end up abominations. Most need to consult demons to learn how to use it (because books about blood magic aren't exactly easy to find), and they sooner or later succumb to the demon or to their own hunger (because they start a killing too many people and attract too much attention).


But, there are bloodmages that didn't learn their art from demons, but from others or books.

So, I think it would be interesting to find a character that is a bloodmage, that learned blood magic for some reason (to make some ritual like Jowan does with Connor and his mother, for example), and is able to hold his temptations in check.



This could make some nice morality choices. For example, one of your soldiers tells you a rumor that some bloodmage is killing travelers in some road. When you go there, you find a bloodmage helping his family/group. Then it's up to you if you want to investigate if the rumors are true, if there is another bloodmage, or you can kill him so you don't take any chances... 


I just think this is good way to show that bloodmagic is not evil by itself like many people think, it's just a way to more power that can seduce it's users to a dark path. If you think about it, it's almost the same thing as the Force in Star Wars and the Biotics in Mass Effect.


(sorry for the text, it ended up more long than I wanted)


Edit:

Remembered someone like this. Malcolm Hawke, Hawke father.

Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 06:28 .

[Beerfish]

A number of them are not RAWR kill all things! and think they are nice and responsible.

See Merrill.

[thats1evildude]

Yes, that Merrill was certainly a power-hungry megalomaniac. <_<

And Alain! Who could forget that madman?

[JCAP]

Forgot Merril sorry :innocent:

Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:08 .

[Ozzy]

For every decent blood mage, we have like fifteen looney tunes. Some more balance would definitely be appreciated.

[Gill Kaiser]

Isn't that basically what Dorian Pavus is likely to be? Even though he's a healer , as a Tevinter Magister I'm sure he knows blood magic.

[JCAP]

AstusOz wrote...

For every decent blood mage, we have like fifteen looney tunes. Some more balance would definitely be appreciated.

Yeah, if my text was resumed to one statement, it would definitely be this. (maybe not 1 - 15, maybe 1 - 50)


Blood magic is dangerous for the weak minded, we all get that. But it would be nice to see the other side of the coin.

[Androme]

 Like Hawke?

[JCAP]

Androme wrote...

 Like Hawke?

Depends on which Hawke.

Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[Mr Cloud]

JCAP wrote...

So, I think it would be interesting to find a character that is a bloodmage, that learned blood magic for some reason (to make some ritual like Jowan does with Connor and his mother, for example), and is able to hold his temptations in check.

Uhm, Jovan didn't learn blood magic so that he could perform a blood ritual. He felt inferior to the Warden/potential Warden (it is presumed that all DA:O origins took place). Hence, he felt power hungry, it's as selfish as it gets.

While yes, comparing it to Force seems relevant, comparing it to ME's biotics is not. Biotics can be augumented through taking drugs and aren't alive, as is magic and force.

Few are able to resist demons' temptations and they are determined enough to possess ordinary mage. If one is, by any chance blood mage, it's even easier for them to appeal to such.

Modifié par Mr Cloud, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:17 .

[JCAP]

Mr Cloud wrote...

JCAP wrote...

So, I think it would be interesting to find a character that is a bloodmage, that learned blood magic for some reason (to make some ritual like Jowan does with Connor and his mother, for example), and is able to hold his temptations in check.

1- Uhm, Jovan didn't learn blood magic so that he could perform a blood ritual. He felt inferior to the Warden/potential Warden (it is presumed that all DA:O origins took place). Hence, he felt power hungry, it's as selfish as it gets.

2- While yes, comparing it to Force seems relevant, comparing it to ME's biotics is not. Biotics can be augumented through taking drugs.

3- Few are able to resist demons' temptations and they are determined enough to possess ordinary mage. If one is, by any chance blood mage, it's even easier for them to appeal to such.

1- I referred to the ritual that Jowan performed, not his reasons. (I didn't like Jowan by the way)

2- Red Sand induces biotic powers to normal people and augments of those already biotics, but keep in mind that they are high during that. The Ascension Project (in Grissom Academy) was made to enhance the biotic kids powers, but they also teached them not to abuse them (kinda reminds the circles).

3- ... No, you didn't get it. Mages, to learn blood magic, either learn from others (or books) or from demons. Demons always want something in return. Their bodies... 

[Ollys]

Thy already went to far with showing mages as good opressed guys. If even bloodmages will became nice and responsible, then mage-templar conflict will be absolutly bland black'n'white with to much paragon mages and renegade templars.

[JCAP]

Ollys wrote...

Thy already went to far with showing mages as good opressed guys. If even bloodmages will became nice and responsible, then mage-templar conflict will be absolutly bland black'n'white with to much paragon mages and renegade templars.

I am suggesting one single bloodmage responsible in the middle of all others that want you blood.

Thanks for noticing this ^

[Potato Cat]

The point they are trying to get across with blood magic is that it is incredibly powerful and this power corrupts. It is balancing as many may naturally side with the mages due to the fun buzzwords they throw around like "freedom". We have seen a fairly large amount of nice blood mages considering the point of it in the lore.

[Mr Cloud]

JCAP wrote...
 I referred to the ritual that Jowan performed, not his reasons. (I didn't like Jowan by the way)

Well, you brought him up as an example of learning blood magic for higher cause, so you did indicate that, whether you'd wanted it or not.

JCAP wrote...
 Red Sand induces biotic powers to normal people and augments of those
already biotics, but keep in mind that they are high during that. The
Ascension Project (in Grissom Academy) was made to enhance the biotic
kids powers, but they also teached them not to abuse them (kinda reminds
the circles).

I thought it could only enhance biotics' abilities, I stand corrected. It is still a different issue though - as I wrote (my post was edited, a lil' too late) Force and magic are much more "alive" than biotics. While biotics seem to be sheer ability, magic comes from the Fade and can influence much more than biotics ever will. Same goes for the Force (it is even considered that Force has a will, but let us not dwell on that).

JCAP wrote...
 No, you didn't get it. Mages, to learn blood magic, either learn
from others (or books) or from demons. Demons always want something in
return. Their bodies... 

Yes, I did get it. Source of wisdom isn't that important, it still draws attention of demons to one using it (kind of obvious as they are tearing the Veil apart while using blood magic). They will tempt, as they want to get into mortals realm and will stop at nothing to do so.

Modifié par Mr Cloud, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:50 .

[MrTijger]

Ollys wrote...

Thy already went to far with showing mages as good opressed guys. If even bloodmages will became nice and responsible, then mage-templar conflict will be absolutly bland black'n'white with to much paragon mages and renegade templars.

I dont think they did that at all, in DA 2 Meredith is pretty much unhinged and has become an extremist whether due to the icon or the rather unhealthy air in Kirkwall and there's plenty of fault to be found with the mages, see Orsino who's also been a close friend of the mage that murdered your mother and decides to go with blood magic himself, you run into quite a few bloodmages in Kirkwall after all.
Cullen is the Templar norm, not Meredith.

Even if you are sympathetic to Anders and Merrill there is no denying what they both did (Justice and the eluvian) ended up as very expensive and not exactly wholly good things.

In DA 1 there's no judgement at all given, the risks of the entire Circle being tainted are very real and only your own judgement decides whether you annul the Circle or reinstate it.

Modifié par MrTijger, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:55 .

[wildkeny]

What always bothers me is that there seems to be a clear distinction between being a demon and being a "good spirit"... there shouldn't be such a distinction. Spirits have a different moral system than ours and that is it. I hate that every "demon" is like tricking people into using blood magic and possessing people.

Modifié par wildkeny, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:55 .

[MrTijger]

wildkeny wrote...

What always bothers me is that there seems to be a clear distinction between being a demon and being a "good spirit"... there shouldn't be such a distinction. Spirits have a different moral system than ours and that is all.

There's one good spirit in Wynne and one that turns out to be a bit less than benevolent in Anders/Justice so even that's not so clear cut.

[Faerah]

MrTijger wrote...

wildkeny wrote...

What always bothers me is that there seems to be a clear distinction between being a demon and being a "good spirit"... there shouldn't be such a distinction. Spirits have a different moral system than ours and that is all.

There's one good spirit in Wynne and one that turns out to be a bit less than benevolent in Anders/Justice so even that's not so clear cut.

The spirit of valor in the harrowing will also kill you if you lose the duel even though valor is a "good" quality. It's not really better or worse than a demon. Thing's definitely aren't black and white, but within the universe of DA, the people try to make it out as though it is black and white but that doesn't make it true.

[wildkeny]

MrTijger wrote...

wildkeny wrote...

What always bothers me is that there seems to be a clear distinction between being a demon and being a "good spirit"... there shouldn't be such a distinction. Spirits have a different moral system than ours and that is all.

There's one good spirit in Wynne and one that turns out to be a bit less than benevolent in Anders/Justice so even that's not so clear cut.

Yes, these are very rare occasions of good spirits in DA. But still the morality of the spirits/demons is being overly simplified as good vs. bad. I'd rather like the TES version of demon, or daedra. For example, Azura is a somehow okay daedra who will take care of those who worship her but can be quite hostile if being offended...

[MDCT506]

I tend to see blood magic as a self-destructive kind of act. As a blood mage, you are trading blood and its vital life giving energy for power. If you want to get philosophical, there is a built in slippery slope where at the bottom power is more valuable than life. People with little regard for life can do some really crazy stuff.

It's also a shortcut for many mages. Instead of the study, dedication to the magical arts, and sometimes uncommon effort that many mages undertake to become powerful, blood mages take an easy path to power. They tend to skip the stuff that teaches... you know... responsibility.

Never mind the whole consorting with power hungry demos thing.

[wildkeny]

Faerah wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

wildkeny wrote...

What always bothers me is that there seems to be a clear distinction between being a demon and being a "good spirit"... there shouldn't be such a distinction. Spirits have a different moral system than ours and that is all.

There's one good spirit in Wynne and one that turns out to be a bit less than benevolent in Anders/Justice so even that's not so clear cut.

The spirit of valor in the harrowing will also kill you if you lose the duel even though valor is a "good" quality. It's not really better or worse than a demon. Thing's definitely aren't black and white, but within the universe of DA, the people try to make it out as though it is black and white but that doesn't make it true.

There is also Witherfang who seems nice enough. Still 99% spirits in DA just tend to trick people into using blood magic and possess people like this is the eternal purpouse of their existence...

[Cainhurst Crow]

[JCAP]

Mr Cloud wrote...

1- Well, you brought him up as an example of learning blood magic for higher cause, so you did indicate that, whether you'd wanted it or not.


2- I thought it could only enhance biotics' abilities, I stand corrected. It is still a different issue though - as I wrote (my post was edited, a lil' too late) Force and magic are much more "alive" than biotics. While biotics seem to be sheer ability, magic comes from the Fade and can influence much more than biotics ever will. Same goes for the Force (it is even considered that Force has a will, but let us not dwell on that).


3- Yes, I did get it. Source of wisdom isn't that important, it still draws attention of demons to one using it (kind of obvious as they are tearing the Veil apart while using blood magic). They will tempt, as they want to get into mortals realm and will stop at nothing to do so.

1- Sorry if you misunderstood what I said, but I still have my mind healthy thank you very much, I know what I said.

Let me be clear: I referred to Jowans ritual because it is a good example of a good excuse to turn bloodmage. Imagine a father turning bloodmage to save his daughter. Maybe he killed some criminal to get the blood or something. Use your imagination.

Once again: I am not refering to Jowan. I am refering to the ritual. More clear than that I can't be.


2- I didn't want to prove you were "wrong" btw. But being "less alive" doesn't mean it isn't open to abuse. Sure, maybe a biotic can't do much damage like the other 2 examples but it is a dangerous power to deal with. Tell me, even if you were a trained soldier, would you pick up a fight with a biotic even if you could avoid it?

3- Still not getting it.<_< Yes, blood mages attract demons (more or less compared with other mages I don't know). But it's more probable a bloodmage that learned from a demon being possessed by that same demon (as part of the deal) than some random demon. I don't know if it's even possible another demon possess some bloodmage that already struck a deal with another.

Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 06:19 .

[wildkeny]

MDCT506 wrote...

I tend to see blood magic as a self-destructive kind of act. As a blood mage, you are trading blood and its vital life giving energy for power. If you want to get philosophical, there is a built in slippery slope where at the bottom power is more valuable than life. People with little regard for life can do some really crazy stuff.

It's also a shortcut for many mages. Instead of the study, dedication to the magical arts, and sometimes uncommon effort that many mages undertake to become powerful, blood mages take an easy path to power. They tend to skip the stuff that teaches... you know... responsibility.

Never mind the whole consorting with power hungry demos thing.

Then the so-called "creation magic" is actually a kind of blood magic which exchange vital life with magic power and no one seems ****ing about it. By using "creation magic", you essentially alter the balance of the universe. If blood magic is forbidden, so should "creation magic" be.