Mykel54 wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
Morrigan isn't a Blood Mage.Mykel54 wrote...
You mean like Morrigan? Though she is still power hungry and only helps the warden for her own interests, so no the best example of selfless devotion.
Of course she is, i suspect you just can´t read between lines, play DAO again and you will see. You don´t need some actual wrist cutting to tell that someone knows blood magic.
Beerfish wrote...
A number of them are not RAWR kill all things! and think they are nice and responsible.
See Merrill.
Amberion wrote...
I think the point is that you don't need to have supernatural powers or special abilities to be dangerous. A man with a knife can be plenty dangerous. Evil is evil. The mechanics on how evil is accomplished is irrelevant.JCAP wrote...
Mr Cloud wrote...
JCAP wrote...
I am a biotic. I go to a bar, and I don't like one group of batarians that are sitting there. With my powers, I pick them up and thrown them out of the window. Or I could bully them. If I was pure evil (or racist), I could smash them on the wall or thrown them a table. If this isn't abuse, I don't know what it is.
I'm an assassin. I go to bar and I don't like one group of humans. With my guns I shoot them dead. Make a little nice hole in their heads. I can beat them down if I feel like it.
Biotics aren't the only ones that can do harm you know.
Most places confiscate your weapons...
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.Mr Cloud wrote...
Amberion wrote...
Jowan was at risk of failing his apprenticeship, and there were
whispers(untrue) of him practicing blood magic. He had actually never
practiced blood magic up until the point in the Mage Origin story when
he was seen using blood magic to escape.
He used blood magic because he felt like he had no choice, that his success or failure as a mage had already been decided and that he was at risk of being made Tranquil. He was desperate and unstable.
The thing is, this is the ideal sort of person for demons to take advantage of. All it takes is a little crack in the armor, and a demon can work their way in. Jowan was a victim, but he had a hand in his own undoing.
He flat out stated that he learned blood magic because he'd felt his power was inferior to Warden's.
And rumours started because he has been learning blood magic in secret.
DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Mykel54 wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
Morrigan isn't a Blood Mage.Mykel54 wrote...
You mean like Morrigan? Though she is still power hungry and only helps the warden for her own interests, so no the best example of selfless devotion.
Of course she is, i suspect you just can´t read between lines, play DAO again and you will see. You don´t need some actual wrist cutting to tell that someone knows blood magic.
Since I'm too lazy, can you give an example?
Amberion wrote...
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.Mr Cloud wrote...
Amberion wrote...
Jowan was at risk of failing his apprenticeship, and there were
whispers(untrue) of him practicing blood magic. He had actually never
practiced blood magic up until the point in the Mage Origin story when
he was seen using blood magic to escape.
He used blood magic because he felt like he had no choice, that his success or failure as a mage had already been decided and that he was at risk of being made Tranquil. He was desperate and unstable.
The thing is, this is the ideal sort of person for demons to take advantage of. All it takes is a little crack in the armor, and a demon can work their way in. Jowan was a victim, but he had a hand in his own undoing.
He flat out stated that he learned blood magic because he'd felt his power was inferior to Warden's.
And rumours started because he has been learning blood magic in secret.
He had never actually practiced blood magic before. We are never shown or told whether the rumors started because he had been studying a book about blood magic, or for some other reason. So we don't know for sure. It seems possible that he did shoot himself in the foot by learning blood magic, it doesn't change the fact that he did it because he felt trapped and had no choice. Note, I said he 'felt' trapped. I'm not excusing his actions.
Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:07 .
Mykel54 wrote...
DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Mykel54 wrote...
Taleroth wrote...
Morrigan isn't a Blood Mage.Mykel54 wrote...
You mean like Morrigan? Though she is still power hungry and only helps the warden for her own interests, so no the best example of selfless devotion.
Of course she is, i suspect you just can´t read between lines, play DAO again and you will see. You don´t need some actual wrist cutting to tell that someone knows blood magic.
Since I'm too lazy, can you give an example?
Here are some dialogues: meeting Jowan in prison, empty house in Haven (the one with the blood magic sacrifice, yeah), asking about the dark ritual as a bloodmage/reaver warden, etc. there are more hints like that.
Also she is one of the most powerful mages in the DA setting (i would say better than wynne), as she is not restricted by religious taboos, so she uses whatever magic she wants, including blood magic.
Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:07 .
DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Since I'm too lazy, can you give an example?
So does the Joining, doesn't make Duncan a Blood Mage.JCAP wrote...
The dark ritual uses blood magic doesn't it?
Modifié par Mr Cloud, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:18 .
In Exile wrote...
Morrigan flat out tells you the DR is BM.
Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:19 .
Taleroth wrote...
So does the Joining, doesn't make Duncan a Blood Mage.JCAP wrote...
The dark ritual uses blood magic doesn't it?
As far as we're aware, the blood magic element of the dark ritual is a euphamism for sex.
JCAP wrote...
Amberion wrote...
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.
He had never actually practiced blood magic before. We are never shown or told whether the rumors started because he had been studying a book about blood magic, or for some other reason. So we don't know for sure. It seems possible that he did shoot himself in the foot by learning blood magic, it doesn't change the fact that he did it because he felt trapped and had no choice. Note, I said he 'felt' trapped. I'm not excusing his actions.
He was not exactly jealous if I remember right. But he learned blood magic before that my friend. When Lillie looks at him after he uses it on the templars, he says he learned it to be better, so we can assume he already had practiced blood magic.
Modifié par Mr Cloud, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:16 .
Modifié par JCAP, 05 septembre 2013 - 08:29 .
Mr Cloud wrote...
JCAP wrote...
Amberion wrote...
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.
He had never actually practiced blood magic before. We are never shown or told whether the rumors started because he had been studying a book about blood magic, or for some other reason. So we don't know for sure. It seems possible that he did shoot himself in the foot by learning blood magic, it doesn't change the fact that he did it because he felt trapped and had no choice. Note, I said he 'felt' trapped. I'm not excusing his actions.
He was not exactly jealous if I remember right. But he learned blood magic before that my friend. When Lillie looks at him after he uses it on the templars, he says he learned it to be better, so we can assume he already had practiced blood magic.
He is jealous, he tells you this when you execute him in Redcliffe as a mage. He used it.
Lemme quote:
"I admit, I've always been a little jealous of your abilities. (...) In a moment of weakness...I thought blood magic would give me more power...more control.(...) I swore never to use it again."
Sure, and a lot of weapons have more than one use too. A knife can be used to butter toast, or cut a roast. Or as a stopgap screwdriver. A gun, it is true, is normally only meant to kill, but kill what? and for what purpose? To kill as a means of domination, or self defense? To protect or destroy?JCAP wrote...
Amberion wrote...
I think the point is that you don't need to have supernatural powers or special abilities to be dangerous. A man with a knife can be plenty dangerous. Evil is evil. The mechanics on how evil is accomplished is irrelevant.JCAP wrote...
Mr Cloud wrote...
JCAP wrote...
I am a biotic. I go to a bar, and I don't like one group of batarians that are sitting there. With my powers, I pick them up and thrown them out of the window. Or I could bully them. If I was pure evil (or racist), I could smash them on the wall or thrown them a table. If this isn't abuse, I don't know what it is.
I'm an assassin. I go to bar and I don't like one group of humans. With my guns I shoot them dead. Make a little nice hole in their heads. I can beat them down if I feel like it.
Biotics aren't the only ones that can do harm you know.
Most places confiscate your weapons...
Agree, the difference is that weapons are meant to kill, and powers like biotics, magic or force can be used for other things than killing.
Magic can be used to put out fires, biotics can be used to help construction etc...
Amberion wrote...
Sure, and a lot of weapons have more than one use too. A knife can be used to butter toast, or cut a roast. Or as a stopgap screwdriver. A gun, it is true, is normally only meant to kill, but kill what? and for what purpose? To kill as a means of domination, or self defense? To protect or destroy?JCAP wrote...
Agree, the difference is that weapons are meant to kill, and powers like biotics, magic or force can be used for other things than killing.
Magic can be used to put out fires, biotics can be used to help construction etc...
Ultimately, no matter the tool, the source of the evil has to lie with the intent of the user.
That's why I find the mage's plight so tragic. Mages lose a lot of their free will by the competing forces of Templars, who guard them and kill them if they step out of line, and Demons, who assault their will and tempt them(and even ensorcell them-think what would have happened to Merrill or Anders if Hawke had died in the fade... they would likely have become abominations)
Urgh I have all these thoughts boiling around in my head and I'm trying to sum up in a concise fashion what I think and I keep rebooting.JCAP wrote...
Amberion wrote...
Sure, and a lot of weapons have more than one use too. A knife can be used to butter toast, or cut a roast. Or as a stopgap screwdriver. A gun, it is true, is normally only meant to kill, but kill what? and for what purpose? To kill as a means of domination, or self defense? To protect or destroy?JCAP wrote...
Agree, the difference is that weapons are meant to kill, and powers like biotics, magic or force can be used for other things than killing.
Magic can be used to put out fires, biotics can be used to help construction etc...
Ultimately, no matter the tool, the source of the evil has to lie with the intent of the user.
That's why I find the mage's plight so tragic. Mages lose a lot of their free will by the competing forces of Templars, who guard them and kill them if they step out of line, and Demons, who assault their will and tempt them(and even ensorcell them-think what would have happened to Merrill or Anders if Hawke had died in the fade... they would likely have become abominations)
I wouldn't use a butter knife to kill someone or a military knife to put butter in the bread.
Yeah, I was a little single-minded in that statement, weapons can be used to hunt and nuclear bombs can be used agains't dangerous asteroids.
But one thing is for certain, weapons are water pistols compared to magic, biotics or the Force.
Yes, and this is a great example. Blood magic is the epitome of the slippery slope. The things Merrill does aren't evil. She's only giving up a bit of her own blood to make pacts with spirits to do relatively minor things. The moment you start using other people's blood though, you are on a very dangerous path. It's a very short road to ritual sacrifice and bloody altars. This is why Templars forbid blood magic. They understand the dangers, and that it's easy to get drunk on power. But blood magic isn't evil; killing innocent people is evil.eye basher wrote...
The problem with blood magic is that in order to work ever more powerful spells you need more and more blood and since your not going to bleed yourself dry the blood needs to come from somewhere or someone else.
Amberion wrote..
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.
He had never actually practiced blood magic before. We are never shown or told whether the rumors started because he had been studying a book about blood magic, or for some other reason. So we don't know for sure. It seems possible that he did shoot himself in the foot by learning blood magic, it doesn't change the fact that he did it because he felt trapped and had no choice. Note, I said he 'felt' trapped. I'm not excusing his actions.
Ehh regarding his relationship with the initiate, according to Anders, who had escaped from the Calenhad Circle Tower, "Everybody was kissing everybody," which implied that there was a LOT of nookie going on.Lord Raijin wrote...
Amberion wrote..
Trust me, I played the mage origin not too long ago. While Jowan is envious of you passing through your apprenticeship, he is much more concerned about his own welfare, and doesn't want to be tranquil. He wants to escape the circle, because he believes the Templars are going to make him tranquil, and are looking for an excuse to guarantee his failure.
He had never actually practiced blood magic before. We are never shown or told whether the rumors started because he had been studying a book about blood magic, or for some other reason. So we don't know for sure. It seems possible that he did shoot himself in the foot by learning blood magic, it doesn't change the fact that he did it because he felt trapped and had no choice. Note, I said he 'felt' trapped. I'm not excusing his actions.
Under Chantry laws Jowan was having an illicit relationship with an initiate name Lily. He did not just want to escape the circle in fear of being made tranquil.. He wanted to start a new life with his girlfriend to which the Chantry strongly forbids.
After he broke his phylactery and attempted to escape he bumped into Knight-Commander Greagoir and First Enchanter Irving. Jowan was outnumbered as Greagoir and Irving was 10x stronger than he was. He had no other choice but to use Blood magic to get away, and thats what he did.
The circle isn't just a safe haven for mages to learn magic, and to control their powers, it is a prison at best. So no I do not fault this NPC for learning blood magic to protect himself from harm. It's only natural to want to learn things that you can use as a tool for survial purpose.
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