73 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

KaiserShep wrote...

Curiously enough, the only note on the Volus' physiology is that they share a similar trait with the Salarians, being that they possess cloacae. Fun fact to know...

Interesting, the only animal groups that commonly have them are reptiles, birds, fish, amphibians and monotremes. Vorcha don't look like any of those though:?

[conjmk]

I thought It was kinda BS and it ruined the whole mystery of the reapers.

[Andrew Lucas]

One people will get annoyed because the menu of ME3 should be red and not blue... Human are curius and why not get another asset for the war ? Later you decide what to do to him.

[FoX vVx]

I enjoyed playing the Leviathan DLC for the reason that it revealed the origin of The Reapers. I wouldn't have liked to finish this trilogy and still have the origin of the Reapers as complete mystery that just came about eons ago. It would've made me think that there weren't any creative juices flowing in the developer's rooms to come up with something worthwhile.

I think that going into the depths of the planet to flush them out was a good idea for Shepard and Co. to pursue. Think about it: facing the reapers, would you not pursue ANY possibility to increase your chances of winning and of understanding them?

[Mcfly616]

Know thy enemy.

[JPN17]

It bothered me in that somehow god kid was able to create reapers without having any reapers to create them. This is a problem because leviathans can destroy reapers. So apparently it had something even more powerful than reapers back then. That then begs the question why doesn't it use those now instead of reapers. Its goal is galactic preservation, but some of that preservation is lost because some reapers are destroyed during the harvest. Much like the EC, Leviathan tried to patch things up, but instead made things worse. It was also the point where I knew god kid was here to stay, so that didn't help matters either. It's too bad too, because the way the DLC plays out is quite enjoyable.

[Mcfly616]

JPN17 wrote...

It bothered me in that somehow god kid was able to create reapers without having any reapers to create them. This is a problem because leviathans can destroy reapers. So apparently it had something even more powerful than reapers back then. That then begs the question why doesn't it use those now instead of reapers. Its goal is galactic preservation, but some of that preservation is lost because some reapers are destroyed during the harvest. Much like the EC, Leviathan tried to patch things up, but instead made things worse. It was also the point where I knew god kid was here to stay, so that didn't help matters either. It's too bad too, because the way the DLC plays out is quite enjoyable.

it really didn't create any problems at all. Just because you didnt get every single footnote of the rise of the Reapers spelled out for you word for word, in no way means its nonsensical.

Oh, and the Catalyst defeated the Leviathan by mastering indoctrination and turning the thrall races against them. Says so right in the DLC.

[in it for the lolz]

David7204 wrote...

Or you could not betray someone after they help you out.

Sometimes that works.

Oh yeah, make pals with mind controlling squid Xenos that like to enslave other races. 

Like that will never bite you on the ass later. 

[Wolfva2]

JPN17 wrote...

It bothered me in that somehow god kid was able to create reapers without having any reapers to create them. This is a problem because leviathans can destroy reapers. So apparently it had something even more powerful than reapers back then. That then begs the question why doesn't it use those now instead of reapers. Its goal is galactic preservation, but some of that preservation is lost because some reapers are destroyed during the harvest. Much like the EC, Leviathan tried to patch things up, but instead made things worse. It was also the point where I knew god kid was here to stay, so that didn't help matters either. It's too bad too, because the way the DLC plays out is quite enjoyable.

Uhhhh.....yeahhhh.  The AI was built and programmed by the Levis.  By the time they realized that he had come up with a solution that necessitated the destruction of sentient species the reapers had already been reaping other races.  Until they turned on the Levis, they thought they were under their control.  In other words, the AI turned all Skynet on them and unleashed the terminators.   As far as building them goes, I'm sure they had big shipyards where the thralls worked dilligently to make the new reaper ships.  Then the Reapers learned how to indoctrinate the thralls and took them away from the Levis, thus starving them.  And I presume blasting at them with their eyebeams of doom.

[JPN17]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just because you didnt get every single footnote of the rise of the Reapers spelled out for you word for word.

Oh look, this argument again. I see it thrown around so much it's almost hilarious. I don't need everything spelled out for me, just enough to make the story make sense. Leviathan does not make sense.

Mcfly616 wrote...

Oh, and the Catalyst defeated the Leviathan by mastering indoctrination
and turning the thrall races against them. Says so right in the DLC

So the leviathans can destroy reapers but fall victim to thrall races? OK then. That's nice that you can headcanon such absurdity to make sense in your mind I suppose. I expect better.

[David7204]

in it for the lolz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or you could not betray someone after they help you out.

Sometimes that works.

Oh yeah, make pals with mind controlling squid Xenos that like to enslave other races. 

Like that will never bite you on the ass later. 

It's not about 'making pals.' It's about honoring your promises.

[in it for the lolz]

David7204 wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Or you could not betray someone after they help you out.

Sometimes that works.

Oh yeah, make pals with mind controlling squid Xenos that like to enslave other races. 

Like that will never bite you on the ass later. 

It's not about 'making pals.' It's about honoring your promises.

Those squid Xenos will never keep their "promises." As those Xenos see it, such things are below them.

[David7204]

Wrong. They very clearly kept their promise to assist in the war effort. That's not up for debate.

In any case, I'm about about Shepard. Not the Leviathans.

[in it for the lolz]

David7204 wrote...

Wrong. They very clearly kept their promise to assist in the war effort. That's not up for debate.

In any case, I'm about about Shepard. Not the Leviathans.

And when the war is over and the Reapers are dead, then what? You think that they won't stab the other races in the back and rebuild their lost empire by enslaving the other races?

[KaiserShep]

I can't say I'd care to keep any promises with the Leviathan myself. I'd have their worlds quarantined and push to have warning beacons placed near any worlds they may inhabit, as well as have their orbs destroyed on sight. They're useful for the war effort, but once that's outlived, they're best left isolated indefinitely. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 septembre 2013 - 03:03 .

[Mcfly616]

JPN17 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just because you didnt get every single footnote of the rise of the Reapers spelled out for you word for word.

Oh look, this argument again. I see it thrown around so much it's almost hilarious. I don't need everything spelled out for me, just enough to make the story make sense. Leviathan does not make sense.

Mcfly616 wrote...

Oh, and the Catalyst defeated the Leviathan by mastering indoctrination
and turning the thrall races against them. Says so right in the DLC

So the leviathans can destroy reapers but fall victim to thrall races? OK then. That's nice that you can headcanon such absurdity to make sense in your mind I suppose. I expect better.

yeah. News flash, we can kill Reapers. So, I'm not sure how that somehow makes us invincible. The Leviathan certainly aren't. And it's not my fault you stick your fingers in your ears, stamping your feet in denial.

The information that is given, makes sense. Just because you prefer more info to your liking, doesn't mean something doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 07 septembre 2013 - 03:16 .

[MegaSovereign]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I reckon it's one of the best DLCs. It's very similar to Overlord, except with squadmates who haven't been mysteriously struck mute.

Eh, how is it similar to Overlord? They both explore the theme of organics/synthetic relations but that's where the similarities end.

Most of Overlord's value comes from its gameplay; whereas Leviathan is more story focused.

[JPN17]

Mcfly616 wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just because you didnt get every single footnote of the rise of the Reapers spelled out for you word for word.

Oh look, this argument again. I see it thrown around so much it's almost hilarious. I don't need everything spelled out for me, just enough to make the story make sense. Leviathan does not make sense.

Mcfly616 wrote...

Oh, and the Catalyst defeated the Leviathan by mastering indoctrination
and turning the thrall races against them. Says so right in the DLC

So the leviathans can destroy reapers but fall victim to thrall races? OK then. That's nice that you can headcanon such absurdity to make sense in your mind I suppose. I expect better.

yeah. News flash, we can kill Reapers. So, I'm not sure how that somehow makes us invincible. The Leviathan certainly aren't.

The difference being it takes just one leviathan to kill a reaper. And there's no evidence that people alone can take out a reaper such as sovereign. We can with ships, but it takes an overwhelming force to take out just one. And by all accounts, the forces we have are not enough. Hackett's "we can't win conventionally" and all that. We don't know how many leviathans there were when god kid was created, however I do believe we can safely assume that there were more leviathans than reapers because the number of reapers was zero. If one leviathan can kill a reaper, and there were zero reapers when god kid moved against the leviathans, just how exactly were they so easily defeated?

Mcfly616 wrote...
Oh, and the Catalyst defeated the Leviathan by mastering indoctrination
and turning the thrall races against them. Says so right in the DLC.

I want to step back to this for a second. I went back and rewatched the conversation shepard had with leviathan so I could take a look at the direct quotes. There were two that stood out to me. The first:

"It created an army of pawns"

What's interesting about that quote is leviathan said god kid created an army. Not assembled or gathered. Now what is meant by created is up for debate and it very well could have been an army consisting of thrall races. It also could have been a race of synthetics.

The second:

"Each reaper has the power to influence organics. Over countless cycles, this ability was refined, perfected, and gave rise to indoctrination."

To me that quote would suggest that god kid could not have indoctrinated the thrall races and used them to turn against the leviathans, because indoctrination had not yet been perfected. Indoctrination only became what it was in mass effect long after the leviathans' empire had been destroyed.

Mcfly616 wrote...
And it's not my fault you stick your fingers in your ears, stamping your feet in denial.

An amusing image, but overly dramatic and not at all accurate.

Mcfly616 wrote...
The information that is given, makes sense. Just because you prefer more
info to your liking, doesn't mean something doesn't make sense.

That's the second time you've written that, but it doesn't actually say anything. All you've said is it makes sense just because. Well I have given my reasoning for why it doesn't make sense. I'd love to hear your reasoning on why it does makes sense, because I don't see it.

[KaiserShep]

I guess the Leviathan should've just used a benign probe to gather data. Instead, they used some kind of mysterio machine that can manufacture whatever it wants in secret.

[Astartes Marine]

Archontic wrote...
i wouldn't get mad at a wolf for defending its territory

If they were the cause of the rest of the world being obliterated then I'm sure as hell going to drag their asses in the help stop it.

Archontic wrote...
the
whole point of the DLC was to drag them into a fight that they didn't
want to be part of.

They are the cause of the cycles, what they want is irrelevant.

Archontic wrote...
but given that the team
didn't know that at the time, these (what I perceive as) characters
flaws are still relevant

At the time the Leviathan was believed to be something that could, at will, effectively kill Reapers.  In a situation as desperate as galactic war, I would believe that was a potential asset worth pursuing.

Archontic wrote...
i firmly believe that if something wants to be
left alone then you should leave it alone

Galactic-wide invasion where life itself is at stake.  Desperate times...

I would go with the term "conscription". 

Archontic wrote...
am i the only one that thinks shep and his team, if only in regards to the leviathan, should just **** off?

I should hope so.

David7204 wrote...
Wrong. They very clearly kept their promise to assist in the war effort. That's not up for debate.

And as soon as the war ends they'll go right back to enslaving the galaxy, because in their own words which are specifically heard in the DLC "tribute does not flow from the dead".

They are allies of convenience, with you only until the mutual goal is achieved at which point they'll promptly stab you in the back. 

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[Rasofe]

The only thing that annoyed me and almost ruined the DLC for me (untill Javik pointed out the Leviathan and its kin aren't likely to ever leave the planet they're stranded on, at least not soon) was that there was literally NO option to kill them. The story of the DLC - particularly its ending - was written in a way so that Shepard has no choice but to convince the Leviathan to join the war, or its critical mission failure.

That hit a little too close to home. It reminds me of the pre-EC ending and why Rejection, despite being fairly lacklusterly done, is an essential option. The Leviathan DLC's final moments have the thinly hidden tone of a storywriter who REALLY wanted to get some story across and didn't consider that games - as an interactive medium - rely very heavily on the reaction of the player.

So I pose this perspective: the Leviathan is a creature that can control minds and cause them to go comatose. By allowing them to join the war effort, you potentially allow them to gather enough control to leave their planet or restart their galactic influence once the war is over. It is clear that they have no moral sympathy for the races of the galaxy, viewing them more or less the way we see grass. Why doesn't Shepard have the option he had with the Krogan, or the Geth, or the Rachni - to destroy or doom the Leviathans?

The authors clearly REALLY wanted the specific events of Leviathan to unfold the way they did. It's a stark contrast to Omega, which has whole permutations of endings. In short, the MEffect team seem to have been at their best when they wrote story arcs that they didn't have this excess of passion about.

Now, I assume that there may be at least some time for the Leviathans to be destroyed post-war. I'm just hoping those idiots in the alliance actually put up remotely activateable shielding on the artifacts or else they can take control of just enough people to orchestrate their return. And the Milky Way is not big enough for enormous entities that can control minds.

Modifié par Rasofe, 20 novembre 2013 - 11:40 .

[thehomeworld]

No OP you aren't the only one the Lev DLC just like Jack's mission midway through I was like can I abort now? Because both of these characters go off the rails midway through Jack's mission of hearing how crazy she is I was thinking why do I need this surprises package when I've got equally sane and just as great biotics in universe to get or they're already working for me. I wanted the cancel order option and was eagerly hoping to get that even if they kept TIM's deposit for her so I could leave her and that station to its own devices.

In Lev after it takes over 2 people I'm like this thing clearly doesn't want my attention so lets stop and I wanted the option to say abort mission sure in this case I could've just stopped but the game itself kept the banners and tags up if I was to do this reminding me I just left this mission I wanted it to close out.

Though the premise for Lev is stupid we're going after a group who doesn't want us to and keeps killing people who keep poking it I was more irritated by how stupid shep was made out to be he/she has been dealing with mind control and indoctrination since ME yet they can't recognize it when they see it. I knew the second the assistant blew off his boss's head it was no workplace grudge it was indoctrination shep on the other hand was a moron about it till someone tells him its indoctrination.

Again this occurs in the largest face palming worthy moment since Mshep decided to grind dance for an Asari and Traynor couldn't stop talking sex with EDI was the moment when shep couldn't recognize the miners being indoctrinated or just plain weird and creepy at the very least not until told these people are off that he gets the point. After the first sentence delivered when shep goes, " Hi guy I need help" I knew these guys were in some way influence by reaper tech shep once again couldn't place two and two together.


I was also upset after the dlc when lev does nothing to alter the entire mission Earth and there was zero character development for shep or his/her crew or his/her LI. We see shep faint then lev kills a reaper this shows us that shep was used in some manner to help defeat the reaper yet we don't get fainting spells for any of the ground reapers we face off with during Earth's mission.

I could see for instance shield reaper would be protected as it showed missiles couldn't even hit it well we could forgive this scene until we pull the thing away from the shield missiles can hit it but lev completionist should've had shep faint and reaper gets fried. Harbi also could've gotten fried for lev finalist and shep + crew go up in this way the beam seperates all the crew Anderson, Shep, and TIM still meet up but then we could've used Lev to alter the end product preEC lev would've forced shep to pick control because lev told us thats why he/it was there to control reapers and the galaxy shep as their thrall would have to do it no matter how para they were.

We'd have more of our ground forces live because lev is frying reapers that girl who calls over the radio that they lost their position actually holds it now because lev helped us at the prior reaper.

Post EC we'd still have that scene yet lev would be the one talking to us about how great it is to be galactic king shep wouldn't speak on what its like being a reaper because he/she is dead. The shep lives scenario could've been worked in right here only for those who got lev and completed it, they would also need to bring Tali and EDI or bring Garrus plus either girl mentioned along they could find an alternative way up to or drop into this chamber as shep is being forced by Lev to go after control. They would hack shep disrupt the link between Shep and lev long enough for the player to pick the ending they choose if you pick destroy you then have a way to live because these people will get you out to a hospital not the best but its working with what we had and doing little to reinvent the wheel the endings gave.

I will though go into a few things I really liked about Lev so BW knows I loved how LI Tali x mshep are right before the dive she comes up and wants him to come back this was sweet it meant their relationship was on going and for romances in ME4 this should be kept if LIs come with you on dangerous missions have moments between then that are individual for them. For instance I wouldn't expect Jack to go up to male shep at this time and go, " come back to me, I love you." that's too soft for Jack I'd imagine if she was here with him she'd go, " If you die down there, I'll drag you back from hell and rekill you myself." it lets the player feel like their one time together pre-ending wasn't a one time deal.

I liked diving that was a different experience and very cool.

I liked shep being enthralled it showed how small he/she was to the lev's they just failed to keep using this throughout the game to develop shep, his/her crew, and their LI. I wanted to see shep scared over the broader implications the loss of his mental freedom, worried this move could be a blight for the galaxy after the reapers, worried that it will compromise him and his crew during battle as he'd have no control over when or if lev would decide to utilize him, making a plan to deal with him if lev takes him and does the worse for the galaxy with his LI, Miranda, and bro Garrus. Or shep telling everybody during the final raid planning session, " Yo I found lev and he's kind of able to jump into my head at anytime so maybe we can use him to fry all the reapers have more of our guys live for the final battle and stuff that would be the best plan here." but we don't get any of that.

I liked hunting with EDI on the map to find the lev location.

I liked working with people for a mission rather then being a one man detective.

[KaiserShep]

The artifacts can simply be destroyed once the war is over. Once the reapers are dealt with, the Leviathans are no longer useful.

[Rasofe]

KaiserShep wrote...

The artifacts can simply be destroyed once the war is over. Once the reapers are dealt with, the Leviathans are no longer useful.

Well, yeah, if they don't take over enough people in secret to hide the artifacts and covertly begin to do this body-snatcher nonsense. Good news is that they're really bad at pantomiming real behavior... but I still hold that any species that considers humanity to be no more than little bugs must be annihilated. That was the principle that drove Shepard to destroy the Reapers, and it's the same for the Leviathan.