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[Ferretinabun]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Thomas Andresen wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

Zack_Nero wrote...

In the Legacy DLC Hawke went to an ancient Gery Warden Prision and freed Corypheus.

Hawke killed Corypheus.

Actually, that's rather in doubt.

I treat such claims as similar to ME3's IT. There is literally no evidence at all that Corypheus didn't die.

It is kinda implied cinematically. Granted that's not much in the way of real-world evidence, but it seems plausible that the writers are leading us to that conclusion.

As opposed to IT which was just pulled right out the of hat in a desperate bid to recover the credibility of ME's plot.

[Navasha]

Some times good things down the line only happen when bad things first shake things up. All of those issues seem to have been like a pot on stove slowly coming to a boil. Hawke might have been the ingredient to really spark the beginning of change by forcing all these things to start seeking resolution.

That's not much consolation to the people who have to live through the carnage of the actual change, but maybe those events needed to happen so that things can finally be resolved down the line somewhere.

[LOLandStuff]

They went through great length to hold Corypheus prisoner, I doubt stabbing him a little more than usual will result in him dying. And as awesome Hawke's ragtag band of misfits is, this is still a powerful darkspawn who managed to use tainted people as puppets just by being there and through his sleep.
And Bioware couldn't have been more obvious than what they showed in the cinematic.

[Ausstig]

To the op:

yes, yes he did.

He Gave the Qunari back their book, kept their spies and assassins secret and unleashed and ancient darkspwan. About the only thing Hawk didn't do was Tear the Veil

oh wait.

[TK514]

Obviously it depends on your choices, but my Hawke did more good than ill, and mitigated most of the ills he was thrust into.

Hawke is not responsible for the Mage/Templar war, the Mages and Templars are. Hawke was simply at the event that set it off now rather than later.

Hawke also isn't responsible for Corypheus' theoretical escape. That blame lies squarely on the Grey Wardens. Hawke either ended the threat for good, or he prevented Corypheus' from escaping in his original, and obviously very powerful, body.

A for Talis, Hawke clearly is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. Talis just got the better of him. It happens.

What my Hawke can be held responsible for is advancing his family's interests and doing his best to make Kirkwall a better place. He obviously made some mistakes along the way (like not reporting or killing Anders earlier), but he was fairly successful, and made a positive impact when it was possible for him to do so.

[TheKomandorShepard]

TK514 wrote...

Obviously it depends on your choices, but my Hawke did more good than ill, and mitigated most of the ills he was thrust into.

A for Talis, Hawke clearly is neither omniscient nor omnipotent. Talis just got the better of him. It happens.
.

Nope that not depends on choices you can choose but still that leads to that same failure.

And for tallis you don't need be super genius to figure it out hawke was dumb as hell in this dlc especially that tallis was two steps from hawke with papers he didn't stop her causing death of milions because she wanted save some qunari spies.

plot of this dlc as well would be tallis sitting on hawke saying "good dog" because hawke was idiot with iq 70.

[Karlone123]

Hawke should have just kept sailing after he fled Ferelden, that lyrim idol piece would have never been found.

Modifié par Karlone123, 06 septembre 2013 - 02:04 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Hawke should've let the Arishok take Kirkwall. That way Meredith, Orsino and Ander would have never had their stupid moments in Act 3.

[Karlone123]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Hawke should've let the Arishok take Kirkwall. That way Meredith, Orsino and Ander would have never had their stupid moments in Act 3.

That could have sparked a continental reaction from other nations seeing it as an act of an invasion by the Qunari.

[Taleroth]

Karlone123 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Hawke should've let the Arishok take Kirkwall. That way Meredith, Orsino and Ander would have never had their stupid moments in Act 3.

That could have sparked a continental reaction from other nations seeing it as an act of an invasion by the Qunari.

So you're saying there would have been a war? Whew, glad he stopped that. Wouldn't want a war to be going on.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Karlone123 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Hawke should've let the Arishok take Kirkwall. That way Meredith, Orsino and Ander would have never had their stupid moments in Act 3.

That could have sparked a continental reaction from other nations seeing it as an act of an invasion by the Qunari.

Still a better story than Mage vs. Templar.

[TK514]

Taleroth wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Hawke should've let the Arishok take Kirkwall. That way Meredith, Orsino and Ander would have never had their stupid moments in Act 3.

That could have sparked a continental reaction from other nations seeing it as an act of an invasion by the Qunari.

So you're saying there would have been a war? Whew, glad he stopped that. Wouldn't want a war to be going on.

the difference in scale is important.  Compared to another war with the Qunari, the Templar/Mage war is small and relatively self-contained.

[mikeymoonshine]

Well I think Bartrond and Varric would have found the red lyrium without hawke and that is really what caused most of the trouble.

I complain about Hawke being kinda dumb allot but weather he/she is good or bad you manage to stop both Meredith and Orsino who you can bet would have done allot more damage.

As for the Tallis thing well that was always going to go badly wasn't it.

My biggest complaint about DA2 is that you have the illusion of choice, All this stuff happens regardless of what you choose to do so yeah all hawke did was make sure allot less people died than would have if he/she wasn't there.

I just hope the choices you made in DA2 actually have an impact in inquisition.

[eye basher]

Hawke was just one cog in a machine that was already going out of control tried to stop it but it was too late.

[azarhal]

Karlone123 wrote...

Hawke should have just kept sailing after he fled Ferelden, that lyrim idol piece would have never been found.

Hawke isn't the one who decided to go down in the Deep Road to find an ancient thaig. Bertrand was and he got his intel from someone and he just happen to be the most affected by the idol. I always found that part dodgy personally...

Hawke was just at the wrong place at the right time...

[DarkKnightHolmes]

azarhal wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

Hawke should have just kept sailing after he fled Ferelden, that lyrim idol piece would have never been found.

Hawke isn't the one who decided to go down in the Deep Road to find an ancient thaig. Bertrand was and he got his intel from someone and he just happen to be the most affected by the idol. I always found that part dodgy personally...

Hawke was just at the wrong place at the right time...

Yes but Bartrend only got to go there because:

A) Anders had the map to the entrance....... which Hawke convinced Anders to give.
 They were short on money...... which Hawke paid for.

So, I'd still blame Hawke.

[The Hierophant]

Does Hawke discoverIng red lyrium/the idol count too?

[eye basher]

What happened in Kirkwall was out of Hawkes hand long before he/she got someone had been setting that up for a while there was no stopping it.

[The Hierophant]

The situation in Kirkwall deteriorated after Hawke discovered the idol. Meredith was KC for almost 10 years before the idol, and the only descriptions of her pre idol reign is her being a hardass. Plus toss in Hawke doing nothing after discovering Petrice's scheme.

[mikeymoonshine]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

azarhal wrote...

Karlone123 wrote...

Hawke should have just kept sailing after he fled Ferelden, that lyrim idol piece would have never been found.

Hawke isn't the one who decided to go down in the Deep Road to find an ancient thaig. Bertrand was and he got his intel from someone and he just happen to be the most affected by the idol. I always found that part dodgy personally...

Hawke was just at the wrong place at the right time...

Yes but Bartrend only got to go there because:

A) Anders had the map to the entrance....... which Hawke convinced Anders to give.
 They were short on money...... which Hawke paid for.

So, I'd still blame Hawke.

Varric was the one who knew Anders had the maps, Do you really think Varric couldn't have just gotten them some other way or helped anders himself? 

Again varric came to hawke because Bartrend was having trouble getting the funds together and he knew Hawke was interested but he could have found another way. He actually wasn't that opposed to letting Dougal invest and I am sure he would have done so if there was no other way. 

Hawke was just an easier option but in no way the only option here. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

mikeymoonshine wrote...

Varric was the one who knew Anders had the maps, Do you really think Varric couldn't have just gotten them some other way or helped anders himself? 

Again varric came to hawke because Bartrend was having trouble getting the funds together and he knew Hawke was interested but he could have found another way. He actually wasn't that opposed to letting Dougal invest and I am sure he would have done so if there was no other way. 

Hawke was just an easier option but in no way the only option here. 

I doubt Varric would have gone with "Sure, let's go the chantry to meet your random friend where there is a high chance the templars might see us". Plus Varric and Anders alone would have probably got murdered down there. Hawke, his 3 companions and Anders are probably the only reason they walked out of there alive.

And really, I doubt Dougal would have given the money to anyone. He gave it to Hawke because he believed Hawke would be able to find them the gold and fortune without ending up dead. If Dougal gave the money to some random guy,  I bet the Rock Wraith would have slaughtered them and nobody would have heard about the red idol ever again.

Hawke is an easier option but the easier option led to Kirkwall and the whole of Thedas going to hell. If Hawke wasn't there there would be no expedition funded, no map, no red idol and no insane Meredith.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 06 septembre 2013 - 02:42 .

[Beerfish]

Plaintiff wrote...

TTTX wrote...

You forgot Hawke found the idol that made Merredith crazy which lead to the events that lead to the ending of DA2.

Which could've happened easily enough without Hawke's involvement. If he'd turned down Varric's offer, Varric could've found another relatively competent warrior.

A mere competant warrior might very well not have defeated the rock warith etc.  Competant warriors do not have a reload button.

[mikeymoonshine]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...

Varric was the one who knew Anders had the maps, Do you really think Varric couldn't have just gotten them some other way or helped anders himself? 

Again varric came to hawke because Bartrend was having trouble getting the funds together and he knew Hawke was interested but he could have found another way. He actually wasn't that opposed to letting Dougal invest and I am sure he would have done so if there was no other way. 

Hawke was just an easier option but in no way the only option here. 

I doubt Varric would have gone with "Sure, let's go the chantry to meet your random friend where there is a high chance the templars might see us". Plus Varric and Anders alone would have probably got murdered down there. Hawke, his 3 companions and Anders are probably the only reason they walked out of there alive.

And really, I doubt Dougal would have given the money to anyone. He gave to Hawke because he believed Hawke would be able to find them the gold and fortune without getting slaughted. If Dougal gave the money to some random guy,  I bet ther Rock Wraith would have slaughted them and nobody would have heard about the red idol ever again.

Hawke is an easier option but the easier option led to Kirkwall and the whole of Thedas going to hell.

Well maybe but I think Anders only asked Hawke because he knew Hawke would be able to help him if Varric wasn't enough help then he wouldn't have asked. That batte also wasn't that hard and we have no Idea if Varric and anders would have failed anyway I'm not sure they would have. Anders didn't really want or need the maps he was just trying to get help but Varric could have gotten them another way or even stole them if he had to. 

Oh and Dougal was already turned down by Bartrend so no I don't think Hawke was the reason why he wanted to invest Varric knew about him and could have gone to him if he felt he had to. 

I really don't see why Hawke is important here you are assuming his/her abilities are the only reason any of this could happen but maybe others could have gotten to the Idol and afterall it wouldn't matter then if they dyed in the deep roads as long as Bartrend escapes and sells the Idol to Meridith. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

mikeymoonshine wrote...
Well maybe but I think Anders only asked Hawke because he knew Hawke would be able to help him if Varric wasn't enough help then he wouldn't have asked. That batte also wasn't that hard and we have no Idea if Varric and anders would have failed anyway I'm not sure they would have. Anders didn't really want or need the maps he was just trying to get help but Varric could have gotten them another way or even stole them if he had to. 

Oh and Dougal was already turned down by Bartrend so no I don't think Hawke was the reason why he wanted to invest Varric knew about him and could have gone to him if he felt he had to. 

I really don't see why Hawke is important here you are assuming his/her abilities are the only reason any of this could happen but maybe others could have gotten to the Idol and afterall it wouldn't matter then if they dyed in the deep roads as long as Bartrend escapes and sells the Idol to Meridith.

Yes, the battle wasn't hard because the game is easy. But still there was like 15-20  templar that swarm you, Anders and Varrica alone probably would have probably taken like 10 before going down.

Also consdering that we actually went to the Deep roads with Bartrend and saw the type of people he brought, aka just a bunch of servants, and they even say they can't continue further because their scout finds it too dangerous and then Hawke says he'll go alone with his companions to deal with the problem.

After all that I truly do believe that Hawke is the only reason they survived the deep roads.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 06 septembre 2013 - 02:58 .

[mikeymoonshine]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

mikeymoonshine wrote...
Well maybe but I think Anders only asked Hawke because he knew Hawke would be able to help him if Varric wasn't enough help then he wouldn't have asked. That batte also wasn't that hard and we have no Idea if Varric and anders would have failed anyway I'm not sure they would have. Anders didn't really want or need the maps he was just trying to get help but Varric could have gotten them another way or even stole them if he had to. 

Oh and Dougal was already turned down by Bartrend so no I don't think Hawke was the reason why he wanted to invest Varric knew about him and could have gone to him if he felt he had to. 

I really don't see why Hawke is important here you are assuming his/her abilities are the only reason any of this could happen but maybe others could have gotten to the Idol and afterall it wouldn't matter then if they dyed in the deep roads as long as Bartrend escapes and sells the Idol to Meridith.

Yes, the battle wasn't hard because the game is easy. But still there was like 15-20  templar that swarm you, Anders and Varrica alone probably would have probably taken like 10 before going down.

Also consdering that we actually went to the Deep roads with Bartrend and saw the type of people he brought, aka just a bunch of servants, and they even say they can't continue further because their scout finds it too dangerous and then Hawke says he'll go alone with his companions to deal with the problem.

After all that I truly do believe that Hawke is the only reason they survived the deep roads.

You do have to give some credit to Anders and his crazy justice powers plus we don't know what the battle would have been like without the silly game mechanic there probably would have been no templars appearing from nowhere for example. 
Well I guess you could be right there but I just don't see them at least getting to the Idol as impossible and I think it could all have happened without Hawke even if it wasn't quite so easy.