139 réponses à ce sujet

[Adanu]

lady_v23 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TTTX wrote...

You forgot Hawke found the idol that made Merredith crazy which lead to the events that lead to the ending of DA2.

Which could've happened easily enough without Hawke's involvement. If he'd turned down Varric's offer, Varric could've found another relatively competent warrior.

Going to have to disagree on this. Anyone besides Hawke (and a party of that caliber) would probably have been screwed trying to deal with the tunnel collapse (dragon anyone?), and would definitely not have survived the rock wraith.

says who?  Who said Varric would not have found someone else?  Hawke when he/she went to the deep roads was pretty much a sword for hire.  Not the unbeatable champion of kirkwall, defeater of quanari.

Varric needed a partner and good hired bodyguards. Hawke provided both.

If you get the devs stating that there were other options for those that Varric/Bartrand would have found and accepted, post them here. Otherwise, you're speculating based on your own bias against Hawke.

[AresKeith]

Hawke disappeared because he/she was ashamed of themself

[leaguer of one]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Zack_Nero wrote...

In the Legacy DLC Hawke went to an ancient Gery Warden Prision and freed Corypheus.

Hawke killed Corypheus.

Someone missed that look.

[leaguer of one]

Adanu wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TTTX wrote...

You forgot Hawke found the idol that made Merredith crazy which lead to the events that lead to the ending of DA2.

Which could've happened easily enough without Hawke's involvement. If he'd turned down Varric's offer, Varric could've found another relatively competent warrior.

Going to have to disagree on this. Anyone besides Hawke (and a party of that caliber) would probably have been screwed trying to deal with the tunnel collapse (dragon anyone?), and would definitely not have survived the rock wraith.

says who?  Who said Varric would not have found someone else?  Hawke when he/she went to the deep roads was pretty much a sword for hire.  Not the unbeatable champion of kirkwall, defeater of quanari.

Varric needed a partner and good hired bodyguards. Hawke provided both.

If you get the devs stating that there were other options for those that Varric/Bartrand would have found and accepted, post them here. Otherwise, you're speculating based on your own bias against Hawke.

It's not a speculation that Varric would of found someone else to fund the deep road expitiontion. Virric is flexible enough to not hang everything on one guy. The fact that he went to Hawke proved that because the only reason he did was because his brother's parter had a falling out.
Hawke is not the solo Catalyst to what happen in Kirkwall. In fact  can say the dominos started falling as far as stone throne.

[Versus Omnibus]

Yes, he/she did make things worse.

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

Brodoteau wrote...

When he/she does react, he does do good (who else could have found the Tome, stopped the Arishok, found the White Rose Killer etc.).

He also slaughtered the resistance that was planning to take down Meredith and would have prevented the war.

Good job, Hawke.

You mean the resistance that attacked him on site and did not try to talk to him first to see what he wanted?
That was there own fault. And it would of ended badly anyway with all the blood mages in there camp and the fact the Divine wanted to do an exsalted march.

[leaguer of one]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Yes, he/she did make things worse.

No, he made things better. Remeber the worst case is that an exalted march would be called on the city as well as a mage uprising. The mage templar war was going to happen no matter what.

[lady_v23]

Adanu wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TTTX wrote...

You forgot Hawke found the idol that made Merredith crazy which lead to the events that lead to the ending of DA2.

Which could've happened easily enough without Hawke's involvement. If he'd turned down Varric's offer, Varric could've found another relatively competent warrior.

Going to have to disagree on this. Anyone besides Hawke (and a party of that caliber) would probably have been screwed trying to deal with the tunnel collapse (dragon anyone?), and would definitely not have survived the rock wraith.

says who?  Who said Varric would not have found someone else?  Hawke when he/she went to the deep roads was pretty much a sword for hire.  Not the unbeatable champion of kirkwall, defeater of quanari.

Varric needed a partner and good hired bodyguards. Hawke provided both.

If you get the devs stating that there were other options for those that Varric/Bartrand would have found and accepted, post them here. Otherwise, you're speculating based on your own bias against Hawke.

excuse you?  Have you read my posts?  I have defended Hawke.<_<

And it looks like YOUR spectulation about anyone that was not Hawke would have died in the deep roads is just.. spectulation.

That's not bias just spectulation.

[leaguer of one]

MasterScribe wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Yes, he/she did make things worse.

No, he made things better. Remeber the worst case is that an exalted march would be called on the city as well as a mage uprising. The mage templar war was going to happen no matter what.

Hawke was a metafictional character created by Varric and the Merchant Guild.

Whatever happened in Kirkwall was the result of other people's actions.

No matter how many times you say it...It won't be true.

[Shadow Fox]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Warden can choose to spare Avernus and the Architect and give an amoral witch a god baby.

Those are worse then Hawke's screw ups.

Yeah, but the Warden can also CHOOSE to not do any of the choices you listed. That's the difference between the two. Hawke just plain screws up no matter what.

Outside of possibly releasing an Ancient Darkspawn Hawke's screw ups were marginal at best.

You forget about the scroll containing the list of Qunari spies, and Hawke did nothing as Tallis skiped on out of Orlais. That's a pretty big one as well.

That's if you helped her otherwise Hawke can try to stop her.

[Adanu]

I haven't read your past posts. I was mainly talking to Plaintiff there anyway... you just jumped in.

As it is, I'm not dealing with speculation with no information to base it on. I've seen no evidence there were others for Varric to approach.

[Versus Omnibus]

leaguer of one wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Yes, he/she did make things worse.

No, he made things better. Remeber the worst case is that an exalted march would be called on the city as well as a mage uprising. The mage templar war was going to happen no matter what.

I'm sorry, but Hawke did make things worse by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Shadow Fox]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yup, Hawke screwed up a lot and unleashed a crapload of nasty on Thedas.

She had the power and skill, but not the brains. A very bad combo.

Being unable to alter events outside her control == dumb

Oh please, Hawke is stupid and typically stands around and let people murder each other all the time, or unleash  ancient darkspawn, let qunari spies skip off, or allow Sisters to ****** off Qunari. She's a failure of a hero.

Okay first the Mage/Templar war was unpreventable,That's more on the Wardens then Hawke,You can try to stop her,She pretty much spells out no one would believe you over her if you told someone.

[In Exile]

Taleroth wrote...He also slaughtered the resistance that was planning to take down Meredith and would have prevented the war.

Good job, Hawke.

Grace was an insane blood mage. If she succeeded, Divine Justinia would have had to declare an exalted march against Kirkwall. Instead of insane renegade Anders nuking the Chantry and the mages being unfortunate victim's of Meredith's insanity, the entire templar order and the Chantry would have had a rallying cry against Circle mages. 

That's one thing Hawke absolutely did right. 

[Taleroth]

In Exile wrote...

Taleroth wrote...He also slaughtered the resistance that was planning to take down Meredith and would have prevented the war.

Good job, Hawke.

Grace was an insane blood mage. If she succeeded, Divine Justinia would have had to declare an exalted march against Kirkwall. Instead of insane renegade Anders nuking the Chantry and the mages being unfortunate victim's of Meredith's insanity, the entire templar order and the Chantry would have had a rallying cry against Circle mages. 

That's one thing Hawke absolutely did right. 

If Hawke hadn't murdered his way through the rest of them, I think they could have taken Grace.

She wasn't half the threat Meredith was.

And why did Grace spontaneously turn into an abomination only the second Hawke shows up? Because he is freaking curse. I swear, it's like demons are invisibly circling around him at all moments looking for people to jump into when he gets near them.

Modifié par Taleroth, 07 septembre 2013 - 05:09 .

[Cheese Time]

I played sarcastic Hawke. Sarcastic Hawke didn't care about right or wrong. Sarcastic Hawke didn't give a f*ck.

[In Exile]

Taleroth wrote...
If Hawke hadn't murdered his way through the rest of them, I think they could have taken Grace.

We don't know that (i) they were actually opposed to Grace or her use of blood magic, since even Alain was a BM and (ii) Grace was doing a fine job mind controlling several of her supposed templar acolytes, like Trashl

She wasn't half the threat Meredith was.

It's not about thread. It's about optics. A Circle mage rebellion led by blood magic and mind controlling templars is the Chantry nightmare. Instead of Justinia searching for a cure to Tranquility, you have to have the entire Chantry rally to burn Kirkwall to the ground.

And when it comes to the Circles asking for freedom, you don't have Meredith's insanity as a rallying cry. You have her as a justified martyr doing her best to control a city that went insane with blood magic. 

And why did Grace spontaneously turn into an abomination only the second Hawke shows up? Because he is freaking curse. I swear, it's like demons are invisibly circling around him at all moments looking for people to jump into when he gets near them. 

Grace was clearly possesed before she started her so-callde rebellion. 

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Taleroth wrote...He also slaughtered the resistance that was planning to take down Meredith and would have prevented the war.

Good job, Hawke.

Grace was an insane blood mage. If she succeeded, Divine Justinia would have had to declare an exalted march against Kirkwall. Instead of insane renegade Anders nuking the Chantry and the mages being unfortunate victim's of Meredith's insanity, the entire templar order and the Chantry would have had a rallying cry against Circle mages. 

That's one thing Hawke absolutely did right. 

If Hawke hadn't murdered his way through the rest of them, I think they could have taken Grace.

She wasn't half the threat Meredith was.

And why did Grace spontaneously turn into an abomination only the second Hawke shows up? Because he is freaking curse. I swear, it's like demons are invisibly circling around him at all moments looking for people to jump into when he gets near them.

1. If they didn't attack Hawke on sight, Hawke would not of killed them.

2.Also, the fact the if the mages took control of Kirkwall would of started an exsulted march has not dawn on you. Yes, we know Meredith is bad but nothing in DA2 was worse then an exsulted march on the city.
3. "And why did Grace spontaneously turn into an abomination only the second Hawke shows up" 
She turns into an abomination only after she is nearly killed in combat.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 07 septembre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Taleroth]

leaguer of one wrote...

2.Also, the fact the if the mages took control of Kirkwall would of started an exsulted march has not dawn on you. Yes, we know Meredith is bad but nothing in DA2 was worse then an exsulted march on the city.

The mages wouldn't have taken control. The rebellion was jointly run between Templars and Mages. It was a pro-circle Rebellion that was strictly against Meredith's excesses. It wasn't Tevinter.

[In Exile]

Taleroth wrote...
The mages wouldn't have taken control. The rebellion was jointly run between Templars and Mages. It was a pro-circle Rebellion that was strictly against Meredith's excesses. It wasn't Tevinter.

It was a blood mage led rebellion controlled by an abomination. The templars were mind-controlled. It would have turned into the Circle Tower had Uldred won.

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

2.Also, the fact the if the mages took control of Kirkwall would of started an exsulted march has not dawn on you. Yes, we know Meredith is bad but nothing in DA2 was worse then an exsulted march on the city.

The mages wouldn't have taken control. The rebellion was jointly run between Templars and Mages. It was a pro-circle Rebellion that was strictly against Meredith's excesses. It wasn't Tevinter.

It did not matter if Tevinter was invold or not. Marches are not called ageint Tevinter, just any one who aposes the chantry laws. The fact allow a city is taken control of by mages is enough. Remeber we are told by Lilianna if the mages do take over a march is happening.

Things could of ended alot worse then it did.