158 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Running away. Like he did.

Yeah. Self-loathing is kind of his thing. He's really messed up about it. Trying to get a reason that "makes sense" instead of "makes sense to Fenris" doesn't work given his abuse. 

And plus, he's a hypocrate. Didn't you ever listen to him talk to Anders about mages and slavery?

I suppose that's reasonable, in the end.

[PinkysPain]

septembervirgin wrote...
People just glower at blood mages? How are serial killers treated in our society?

If they are an important member of an allied government? With lavish.

Most people see blood magic and think demons are going to eat me and they're going to come from that blood mage. I'm not exaggerating, the primary source of stories for people is trusted and held as solitary truth -- it's the Chantry. And what does the Chantry say about Blood Mages?

They can say an awful lot, but in the meantime a known bloodmage stopped the last blight (in my play through).

he's a serial killer with a hidden AK. You just saw the AK. Now what do you do, scowl at him?

He's a known communist with a permit for open carry of a firearm in the 1950s, now what do you do?

[Master Warder Z_]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Running away. Like he did.

Yeah. Self-loathing is kind of his thing. He's really messed up about it. Trying to get a reason that "makes sense" instead of "makes sense to Fenris" doesn't work given his abuse. 

And plus, he's a hypocrate. Didn't you ever listen to him talk to Anders about mages and slavery?

Your calling Fenris the Hypocrite when Anders actually supports selling Fenris back to his Master?

Yeah i don't see that.

[Xilizhra]

Your calling Fenris the Hypocrite when Anders actually supports selling Fenris back to his Master?

Yeah i don't see that.

Anders, a person about whom we were not talking at all?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Nah, I'm annoyed by people living in the dreamworld, thinking that all the different races and specailization will be given proper depth and presentation, andcompletely ingoring the work and resource requirements to do even two.

Well, humans tend to be the default and probably won't need that much specialized work done, so the three remaining shouldn't overtax Bioware with their extra year.

Aaaand I guess that is why we got a specicif templar playtrough with lyrium addiction in DA:O?
And a deep and extensive Blood Mage series of quests and content?
And why 90% of the different races and origins content was basicly in the first 2 hours of the game?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Taleroth wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
 A pistol is cheaper, easier to conceal,  easier to carry, and more useful in tight spaces. And doesn't destroy buildings when you only want to take out one guy. Voila, equal!

Not even close.

You're right. Pistols are overpowered. Which is why we have more of them than tanks.

I'll take a tank. You take your pistol.

COME AT ME BRO!
Note: I don't care about collateral damage. I'm just gonna drive trough any building you attmept to hide in.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
Soldiers. Obviously they don't have the same pathologies, usually, that serial killers do, but they do kill multiple people.

You're equating soldiers with serial killers? Seriously?

[Lotion Soronarr]

GabrielXL wrote...
I'm curious... Are you a developer at BioWare? I ask because if this is the cause of your annoyance, then I'm inclined to think that you have knowledge of what it takes to build a game such as this. On the other hand, if you're not a developer for BioWare, then perhaps you give them less credit than they deserve. Maybe I'm just an optimist and thus inclined to think that with all the uproar over BioWares latest missteps (real or perceived), they'd feel somewhat compelled to get this one right. Surely there will be things that won't please everyone, but they have to know that once again drawing the ire of their fan base can't be a good thing. They obviously have creative license to do whatever they wish, but I'd like to think that they're set on proving that they did listen to their fans and are preparing to bring them (us), a game that is (as close to) everything they promised.

No, I'm not a BioWare dev.
But I did work on many huge mods and a small commercial game or two.
And I have a few friends who are active in the industry.

You think I'm disrespecting the devs? Quite the contrary.
Most people don't realize the enormity of the work required to make a game.
And how that volume of work increases exponentially when you add in branching paths and mutiple options.

With all the features and alternate paths and consequences they announced, I see escaliting production requirements. Maybe Bio has some revolutionary new methods or far mroe manpower and resources than I think.

But  given that DA2 was less ambitious than this and didn't fully deliver, I'm skeptical.

If I have any hope at all for this game, it's that they find a way to put (at least some) old prejudices to rest, because what I see from the people of Thedas is that they'll hate, believe or embrace whatever is convenient at the moment. There is no real focus or purpose beyond what they think is important at a given moment and then they go right back to being the shallow folk that I think they are. Perhaps the Arishok was right all along. (There should have been an option in DA2 to side with the Qunari, but that I think that would have been too definitive of an ending.)

What prejudices would those be?
Becaue I have yet to meet someone who isn't prejudiced, both in games and in RL.

[Tremere]

GabrielXL wrote...
If I have any hope at all for this game, it's that they find a way to put (at least some) old prejudices to rest, because what I see from the people of Thedas is that they'll hate, believe or embrace whatever is convenient at the moment. There is no real focus or purpose beyond what they think is important at a given moment and then they go right back to being the shallow folk that I think they are. Perhaps the Arishok was right all along. (There should have been an option in DA2 to side with the Qunari, but that I think that would have been too definitive of an ending.)

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
What prejudices would those be?
Becaue I have yet to meet someone who isn't prejudiced, both in games and in RL.

Right... But since we're talking about a game in this case and Dragon Age in particular, I'm sure you're aware of what prejudices I'm referring to. Elves are always second class citizens... All mages are dangerous/bad and require oversight by the self-righteous... Qunari are heretics... Need I continue? I don't know which, if any will be addressed in this game, but as I said, it's my hope that at least some of them are. As I alluded to in another post, "Thedas is rife with the self-righteous, sanctimonious, self-absorbed and short-sighted." Let's hope DA:I will be their wake up call.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 16 septembre 2013 - 11:34 .

[Xilizhra]

Aaaand I guess that is why we got a specicif templar playtrough with lyrium addiction in DA:O?
And a deep and extensive Blood Mage series of quests and content?
And why 90% of the different races and origins content was basicly in the first 2 hours of the game?

Lyrium wasn't actually required to become a templar in DAO, and while DA2 doesn't speak of it directly, it still might not be.
Blood mages don't need that much extra content because they have the same goal as other Wardens and presumably don't really need mind control.
And individual racial content drops off because the nature of the Grey Wardens is such that it already transcends racial boundaries.

[Lotion Soronarr]

GabrielXL wrote...

Right... But since we're talking about a game in this case and Dragon Age in particular, I'm sure you're aware of what prejudices I'm referring to. Elves are always second class citizens... All mages are dangerous/bad and require oversight by the self-righteous... Qunari are heretics... Need I continue? I don't know which, if any will be addressed in this game, but as I said, it's my hope that at least some of them are. As I alluded to in another post, "Thedas is rife with the self-righteous, sanctimonious, self-absorbed and short-sighted." Let's hope DA:I will be their wake up call.

That makes up 99,9% of humanity and everyone in Thedas.
Prejudices are everywhere. And they may not be false. They may be built on practical concernes. They might be true from a given perspective.
"X is prejudiced and I hope they get their asses kicked" is in itself a a prejudice.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Aaaand I guess that is why we got a specicif templar playtrough with lyrium addiction in DA:O?
And a deep and extensive Blood Mage series of quests and content?
And why 90% of the different races and origins content was basicly in the first 2 hours of the game?

Lyrium wasn't actually required to become a templar in DAO, and while DA2 doesn't speak of it directly, it still might not be.
Blood mages don't need that much extra content because they have the same goal as other Wardens and presumably don't really need mind control.
And individual racial content drops off because the nature of the Grey Wardens is such that it already transcends racial boundaries.

Lyrium addiction was planned but shelved (confirmed by Gaider). And guess why - because of resources.
Blood mages do need extra content, simply because of all the exra options and reactions a blood mage should have.
And the individual racial content drops off because of resouces again.

Living in denial much?

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Aaaand I guess that is why we got a specicif templar playtrough with lyrium addiction in DA:O?
And a deep and extensive Blood Mage series of quests and content?
And why 90% of the different races and origins content was basicly in the first 2 hours of the game?

Lyrium wasn't actually required to become a templar in DAO, and while DA2 doesn't speak of it directly, it still might not be.
Blood mages don't need that much extra content because they have the same goal as other Wardens and presumably don't really need mind control.
And individual racial content drops off because the nature of the Grey Wardens is such that it already transcends racial boundaries.

Lyrium addiction was planned but shelved (confirmed by Gaider). And guess why - because of resources.
Blood mages do need extra content, simply because of all the exra options and reactions a blood mage should have.
And the individual racial content drops off because of resouces again.

Living in denial much?

Going back to the original topic, I don't think that blood mages would need that many additional reactions outside one's own party, though they might have extra options... and within one's own party, I think it works best if most if not all of them will accept it. Which isn't that hard; it was organic enough in DA2.

[billy the squid]

Xilizhra wrote...

People just glower at blood mages? How are serial killers treated in our society?

People who kill multiple people just on their own? Badly. People who kill multiple people with government sanction trying to solve national problems? It varies, but often heroically.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the predatory tendencies which appear in sociopaths that make them a danger to society, you know, like rapists and pedophiles. Or are they all just misunderstood, regardless of their warped psychology.

Modifié par billy the squid, 16 septembre 2013 - 02:02 .

[Magdalena11]

One consequence of using blood magic I'd like to see is an impact on companion reaction. Spells like blood sacrifice shouldn't be accepted without massive approval loss. I'd expect a change in morale if a companion suddenly saw a raised undead fighting at their side, for instance a penalty to attack and defense due to surprise and horror. I'm not sure what effects casting blood wound would have on a party since AOE is one of the key benefits to being a mage and the changes are internal. If blood started erupting from multiple wounds and orifices, then a large reaction would be appropriate.

I wish they'd left in the confrontation with Wynne if the PC was a blood mage. That was in character for her and having her skip to the "I want to leave the tower and join the Warden" question seemed just wrong.

[In Exile]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Your calling Fenris the Hypocrite when Anders actually supports selling Fenris back to his Master?

Yeah i don't see that.

Anders is also a hypocrite. It's not an exclusive term. More than one person at a time can be one. 

[Eterna]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're still annoyed with multiple races, aren't you, Lotion?

Wait, he is annoyed by multiple races?

Nah, I'm annoyed by people living in the dreamworld, thinking that all the different races and specailization will be given proper depth and presentation, andcompletely ingoring the work and resource requirements to do even two.

Being a Blood Mage is pefectly fine provided we can force people to help us either with intimidation or violence.  

Modifié par Eterna5, 16 septembre 2013 - 04:02 .

[PinkysPain]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Note: I don't care about collateral damage. I'm just gonna drive trough any building you attmept to hide in.

Going through multi-story buildings is a really good way to get stuck.

In a dense urban environment they don't see ****, can't get to **** and are sitting ducks for improvised incendiaries.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 16 septembre 2013 - 05:03 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lyrium addiction was planned but shelved (confirmed by Gaider). And guess why - because of resources.
Blood mages do need extra content, simply because of all the exra options and reactions a blood mage should have.
And the individual racial content drops off because of resouces again.

Living in denial much?

Going back to the original topic, I don't think that blood mages would need that many additional reactions outside one's own party, though they might have extra options... and within one's own party, I think it works best if most if not all of them will accept it. Which isn't that hard; it was organic enough in DA2.

Yes. It was handled BRILLIANTLY in DA2.

Look templars, look at my shiny staff and my use of blood magic right in front of you! LOOK!
Yo, templars! I got an abomination right next to me! Care to do anything about it? No.

Hey, I'm a blood mage. Time to use my awesome blood mage powers!
You there, submit to my mind control...no?



Yeah, DA2 is sure a gem when it comes to doing blood mages justice. :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Chanda]

In the latest Nerd Appropriate Podcast, Dragon Age Inquisition - Playable Races, around the 44:00 mark, the Devs talk about the Blood Mage specialization and how they want it to be more "threatening from the player perspective," "through a bunch of different means".

Modifié par Chanda, 19 septembre 2013 - 05:07 .

[Tremere]

Chanda wrote...

In the latest Nerd Appropriate Podcast, Dragon Age Inquisition - Playable Races, around the 44:00 mark, the Devs talk about the Blood Mage specialization and how they want it to be more "threatening from the player perspective," "through a bunch of different means".

I listened to this podcast and in particular, to the part that you mentioned here. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure how to feel about it. More specifically, "What does this mean?" I'm hoping (sincerely) that this doesn't mean the Inquisitor will be compelled to consort with spirits/demons in order to learn Blood Magic. If so, I think that would be a bad idea. I say this mostly because of what was written about Blood Magic in DA2. Therein, it states:

Many see it as the only form of Magic that is truly free, because it's tied to the physical, not favors to spirits or demons.

I agree that the stigma associated with it probably should invoke a reaction of some sort, but selling out to the notion that it compels the mage to consort with spirts (malefic or benevolent), I think is a bad idea. I could embrace the idea that a *spirit* experiencing the physical plane would have a more "spiritual" understanding of the power of blood and thus be able to bargain with a human in that regard, but once it's learned and tomes are written about it, this would effectively diminish "the need" for consorting with entities of any sort. Sure, it might take longer for the mage to master the ability or he/she may have to go through a lot to acquire the knowledge, but the need for otherwordly entities is no longer a requirement.

On another note, "IF" this is the thinking behind the inclusion of Blood Magic in DA: I, I'm wondering if BioWare is going the way of the Paragon/Renegade as they did in Mass Effect or the Good/Neutral/Evil that was used in Neverwinter Nights. If so, I can understand the thinking behind a Blood Mage being perceived as bad. I'm just not sold on the idea that the Mage player *MUST* consort with otherworldly entities in order to learn a certain school of magic. Especially one that is fundamentally linked to the physical world.

In closing, I think that with what we know thus far about the world of DA: I, it might be fair to say that a lot of ideas about the world are in for a makeover. The most bothersome in my mind is the idea that Mages are fundamentally more flawed than any other person with power. If absolute power corrupts absolutely, does it matter what instrument/weapon the weilder uses? In this sense, a sword or a spell makes little difference.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 20 septembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[WardenWade]

One of my sibs really enjoys playing as a mage and is eagerly looking forward to this kind of reactivity, as am I. I'm curious as well what sort of reactions and resources will be used for the other classes. It will interesting to see how people might react to a templar or reaver (or potentially even a spirit warrior if it returns), or to a bard or assassin, for example, and what sorts of options all these specs open up for everyone.

Modifié par WardenWade, 20 septembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[KainD]

GabrielXL wrote...
 If absolute power corrupts absolutely, does it matter what instrument/weapon the weilder uses?

Power doesn't corrupt, it gives you freedom. Usually personal freedom ends where the other persons freedom begins, but when you have more power you are able to expand your freedom while deminishing the freedom of other less powerful individuals. 

''Through power I gain victory, through victory my chains are broken, the force shall free me.''

[Tremere]

KainD wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
 If absolute power corrupts absolutely, does it matter what instrument/weapon the weilder uses?

Power doesn't corrupt, it gives you freedom. Usually personal freedom ends where the other persons freedom begins, but when you have more power you are able to expand your freedom while deminishing the freedom of other less powerful individuals. 

''Through power I gain victory, through victory my chains are broken, the force shall free me.''

Bear witness all, to an abomination in the making!  There's a Pride Demon out there somewhere who's waiting for your call.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 20 septembre 2013 - 07:47 .

[Seival]

Blood Magic and Blood Mages should play very important role in DA:I. And I believe that BioWare should show this kind of magic from some positive perspective this time, even through it still looks dark and "evil".

Modifié par Seival, 20 septembre 2013 - 09:25 .