334 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Perhaps put the templars under the authority of the sovereign nation?

Somehow I think that would only end with sovereigns using the Circle to produce indentured mages for the army.  They already do to a limited extent.

Would that be such a bad outcome though?

Considering the possibilities that open up for warfare, it could be.

PoWs having demons put in them and sent back to their home nations, unleashing hidden abominations on unsuspecting enemy nations.

Weakening of Veil if a lot of magic and death is caused in a small area, which is bad as it greatly affects life in the area as well, kind of like radiation.

Giving mages military command... well, if the mage was an very ambitious person, could go all blood mage and have a lot of well trained underling at his/her command to overthrow the current establishment and make a magocracy or dictatorship.

Training mages to specifically be used in warfare, using more destructive power, would change the face of war for Thedas, it could go back to the Ancient Times when whole cities could be sunk and demons run amok on the enemies, or could end up worse.

Until there is an international body to oversee the conflicts and military resources of the world, mages going all in into the military doesn't sound like a good idea because instead of just having one Ancient Tevinter army, you would have ten or more, and two nations (arlathan and tevinter) that greatly used magic in warfare was enough.

[DarthLaxian]

DPSSOC wrote...

i could live/accept, that people demand mages live appart from the "normal" people - but then they have to give them land and send all mage-children there IMHO

greetings LAX

isnt that basically the circle?

no - that would be freedome to walk outside, have every kind of occupation one wants to pursue etc. amongst many other things that are not allowed at the circles (like having a family (and even children))!

greetings LAX
ps: the circles are gilded cages (nothing more, nothing less - there is no freedom there!)

[Daerog]

Martyr1777 wrote...

You all realize they wrote it this way. Its an impossible solution, but makes it eaily available as a plot device.

You cant give power back to the templars because the mages have had enough. You cant let the mages have freedom because the general populace fears them to much after ceturies of the chantrys teachings.

So you end up with a no win situation. But it sure makes for great storys if you like dark and realistic settings.

Just have the Inquisition take power in overseeing the Circles and have mages go back to the Circles. An independent body that all nations can speak to and the Inquisition can focus on overseeing Circles rather than all the small details of national politics and temptation to abuse the Circles for their own ends.

That's the only thing I can really see as "best" solution.

[Martyr1777]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...

You all realize they wrote it this way. Its an impossible solution, but makes it eaily available as a plot device.

You cant give power back to the templars because the mages have had enough. You cant let the mages have freedom because the general populace fears them to much after ceturies of the chantrys teachings.

So you end up with a no win situation. But it sure makes for great storys if you like dark and realistic settings.

Just have the Inquisition take power in overseeing the Circles and have mages go back to the Circles. An independent body that all nations can speak to and the Inquisition can focus on overseeing Circles rather than all the small details of national politics and temptation to abuse the Circles for their own ends.

That's the only thing I can really see as "best" solution.

Problem thats not differnt then the chantry/templars sitting over the circles, just a different name. Mages have finally had enough they arent going to care who it controlling them, they just dont want to be controlled. 

[dragonflight288]

On a side note, with the big hole in the sky, demons may not even be interested in mages anymore, and may not seek them out for possession any more often than a non-mage now that they have a very large doorway into our world. Before now, mages were the easiest way into our world, and more often than not, a demons stated motivation is simply to experience our world.

Now that they can enter freely, their need for mages has likely diminished. They can possess the dead frequently, become Revenants or walking corpses, we can have a lot of Sophia Drydens walking about, regular folk possessed, we could have abominations, and the templars may be just as fair game now as the mages.

Mages may not need to be monitored anymore depending on how this fade-tear goes. And if you listen to Sandal, it may be that everyone may end up becoming a mage in some fashion (spirit warrior style.)

[Daerog]

Martyr1777 wrote...


Problem thats not differnt then the chantry/templars sitting over the circles, just a different name. Mages have finally had enough they arent going to care who it controlling them, they just dont want to be controlled. 

Different than the Chantry since the Chantry had a great many other responsibilities.

The Inquisition would just be police and work with the Circle. The Grand Enchanter and head Inquisitor on equal seating. Ya, it would be similar, but this would at least give the nations of thedas some breathing space and limit the paranoia of another tevinter state sprouting in the middle of a nation and another civil war starting.

I can't think of a better solution. The reason why the current system was so bad is because all the complaints and trouble that was happening in the Circles couldn't be investigated well or quick enough because of all the other responsibilities the Chantry had.

With the Inquisition, states could possibly have inquiries processed more quickly and investigations be done. With funding coming from the nations instead of the Chantry, the Inquisition would have to answer to the nations as a whole instead of just the Maker and Orlais won't have the biggest voice possibly.

Just some thoughts.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:53 .

[Eveangaline]

DarthLaxian wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

i could live/accept, that people demand mages live appart from the "normal" people - but then they have to give them land and send all mage-children there IMHO

greetings LAX

isnt that basically the circle?

no - that would be freedome to walk outside, have every kind of occupation one wants to pursue etc. amongst many other things that are not allowed at the circles (like having a family (and even children))!

greetings LAX
ps: the circles are gilded cages (nothing more, nothing less - there is no freedom there!)

So basically make a country of nothing but mages?

ANd the idea of making a seperate nation, one whose entire population is people with super powers, while no other country gets super-powered folks, this seems like something any country would agree to?

[DKJaigen]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Perhaps put the templars under the authority of the sovereign nation?

Somehow I think that would only end with sovereigns using the Circle to produce indentured mages for the army.  They already do to a limited extent.

Would that be such a bad outcome though?

Considering the possibilities that open up for warfare, it could be.

PoWs having demons put in them and sent back to their home nations, unleashing hidden abominations on unsuspecting enemy nations.

Weakening of Veil if a lot of magic and death is caused in a small area, which is bad as it greatly affects life in the area as well, kind of like radiation.

Giving mages military command... well, if the mage was an very ambitious person, could go all blood mage and have a lot of well trained underling at his/her command to overthrow the current establishment and make a magocracy or dictatorship.

Training mages to specifically be used in warfare, using more destructive power, would change the face of war for Thedas, it could go back to the Ancient Times when whole cities could be sunk and demons run amok on the enemies, or could end up worse.

Until there is an international body to oversee the conflicts and military resources of the world, mages going all in into the military doesn't sound like a good idea because instead of just having one Ancient Tevinter army, you would have ten or more, and two nations (arlathan and tevinter) that greatly used magic in warfare was enough.

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its goverment. the same rules would apply to mages as well

[Herr Uhl]

DKJaigen wrote...

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its goverment. the same rules would apply to mages as well

Blood mages can be a bit more persuasive to their superiors than regular people.

[DKJaigen]

Herr Uhl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its goverment. the same rules would apply to mages as well

Blood mages can be a bit more persuasive to their superiors than regular people.

Counter it with another bloodmage. Their are plenty of people who are willing to serve their country including bloodmages. you put those in charge.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Would anyone play a pro-chantry inquisitor? Maybe allowing people to set up a chantry at the castle or fight in favor of the Andraste? I like how you can set up a chantry in Orzammar to promote the teaching of the Maker. Since I play as a mage in my first file, I may be pro-mage, but in a subsequent playthrough, I may play a dwarf who believes in the Maker. I know that the Chantry has been vivified by a lot of people here, so I'm just wondering if anyone would roleplay as one. You don't necessarily have to support the chantry personally to roleplay as one. 

Not on my first playthough.

[Daerog]

DKJaigen wrote...

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its government. the same rules would apply to mages as well

Talking about the last point? Sure, I agree, but those armies overthrowing their respective nations will still have a sense of the current status quo, with non mages still in power, and the international community not caring too much.

However if mages (or a single mage with mind controlled army) overthrow a nation, that will cause panic about a possible second tevinter that may cause an Exalted March or some sort of world war to squash that mage uprising. An international body could help prevent things going too far with the international community just jumping into the mosh pit.

Just to try to stay on topic: Ya, as I've said, I'll be playing pro chantry and pro circle for my canon playthrough, depending how the story goes.

[Daerog]

DKJaigen wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its goverment. the same rules would apply to mages as well

Blood mages can be a bit more persuasive to their superiors than regular people.

Counter it with another bloodmage. Their are plenty of people who are willing to serve their country including bloodmages. you put those in charge.

Ya, lets just put all mages in charge. All top positions filled by mages, the commoners and those who have learned about the history of Thedas would love that idea. From an in game perspective, that sounds bad.

[dragonflight288]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The problem is however that any nation that uses mages that way is going to win from every other nations that doesnt. you need to keep up the arms race. the problem your describing however has little basis. every single military force in this world is capable of overthrowing its goverment. the same rules would apply to mages as well

Blood mages can be a bit more persuasive to their superiors than regular people.

Counter it with another bloodmage. Their are plenty of people who are willing to serve their country including bloodmages. you put those in charge.

Ya, lets just put all mages in charge. All top positions filled by mages, the commoners and those who have learned about the history of Thedas would love that idea. From an in game perspective, that sounds bad.

That wouldn't work anyway. The blood mage thing. Gaider said that most blood mages will control your muscles, but you can still think for yourself, trapped in your own mind. But only blood mages who have studied the lore, delved deeply into it, can influence the mind itself.

If a blood mage is persuasive to his superiors, he's far more than a casual blood mage, and if you want to counter that with another blood mage of equal skill, you would need another incredibly skilled blood mage who has studied.

I may be pro-mage, and I may see blood magic as a tool, but there is no way I'm letting anyone who studied blood magic to the extent of being able to influence a person's thoughts anywhere near the seat of power in any government.

[BlueMagitek]

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

[dragonflight288]

BlueMagitek wrote...

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

Umm.....the only kind of mage I can think of who can do that would be Somniari, Feynriel to be exact, and I don't see the kid doing that, and Merethari made it quite clear that dreamers are exceptionally rare.

[cjones91]

dragonflight288 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

Umm.....the only kind of mage I can think of who can do that would be Somniari, Feynriel to be exact, and I don't see the kid doing that, and Merethari made it quite clear that dreamers are exceptionally rare.

Does'nt Tevinter have several Somniari?I recall a Tevinter Magister being one in the DA comics.

[BlueMagitek]

dragonflight288 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

Umm.....the only kind of mage I can think of who can do that would be Somniari, Feynriel to be exact, and I don't see the kid doing that, and Merethari made it quite clear that dreamers are exceptionally rare.

From what I gathered, the entire ruling class of Tevinter are human dreamers descended from the Tevinter Magisters who destroyed Arlathan.

Go check out one of the World of Thedas topics, yeah. ^.^

But yes, Feynriel has a Sominari master, if nothing else.

[Hellion Rex]

cjones91 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

Umm.....the only kind of mage I can think of who can do that would be Somniari, Feynriel to be exact, and I don't see the kid doing that, and Merethari made it quite clear that dreamers are exceptionally rare.

Does'nt Tevinter have several Somniari?I recall a Tevinter Magister being one in the DA comics.

Magister Aurelius was. It seemed to be hinted that outside of Tevinter, dreamers were rare. There seem to be more in the Imperium.

[Martyr1777]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...


Problem thats not differnt then the chantry/templars sitting over the circles, just a different name. Mages have finally had enough they arent going to care who it controlling them, they just dont want to be controlled. 

Different than the Chantry since the Chantry had a great many other responsibilities.

The Inquisition would just be police and work with the Circle. The Grand Enchanter and head Inquisitor on equal seating. Ya, it would be similar, but this would at least give the nations of thedas some breathing space and limit the paranoia of another tevinter state sprouting in the middle of a nation and another civil war starting.

I can't think of a better solution. The reason why the current system was so bad is because all the complaints and trouble that was happening in the Circles couldn't be investigated well or quick enough because of all the other responsibilities the Chantry had.

With the Inquisition, states could possibly have inquiries processed more quickly and investigations be done. With funding coming from the nations instead of the Chantry, the Inquisition would have to answer to the nations as a whole instead of just the Maker and Orlais won't have the biggest voice possibly.

Just some thoughts.

Actually, since the inquisition concept is to be a police force for thedas in any and all aspects they have FAR more responsibility then the chantry, they're just a church that happens to think mages are all tyrannical. That is they the circles were made to prevent mages from ruling like Tevinter.

But regardless, as of asunder most mages are done with any type of circle. They are done being controlled, the name of who is controlling is meaningless.

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

They don't need to be anywhere near a seat of power. They can manipulate all of your officials from a country away in your dreams. ~_^

Unless we're all to be ruled by Dwarves and Golems, yeah?

Umm.....the only kind of mage I can think of who can do that would be Somniari, Feynriel to be exact, and I don't see the kid doing that, and Merethari made it quite clear that dreamers are exceptionally rare.

Does'nt Tevinter have several Somniari?I recall a Tevinter Magister being one in the DA comics.

Magister Aurelius was. It seemed to be hinted that outside of Tevinter, dreamers were rare. There seem to be more in the Imperium.

You'd think Tevinter could kill  anyone anywhere by having several Dreamers perform assassinations of important figures in Thedas.I wonder why they did'nt just kill the leadership of the Qunari by using a group of Somniari.

Modifié par cjones91, 11 septembre 2013 - 01:26 .

[Heimdall]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Perhaps put the templars under the authority of the sovereign nation?

Somehow I think that would only end with sovereigns using the Circle to produce indentured mages for the army.  They already do to a limited extent.

Would that be such a bad outcome though?

I fail to see how it would be any better than the Circle system.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Perhaps put the templars under the authority of the sovereign nation?

Somehow I think that would only end with sovereigns using the Circle to produce indentured mages for the army.  They already do to a limited extent.

Would that be such a bad outcome though?

I fail to see how it would be any better than the Circle system.

Mages would be a lot more free than when they were in the Circle. That alone makes it a better option/.

[Daerog]

eluvianix wrote...

Mages would be a lot more free than when they were in the Circle. That alone makes it a better option/.

A possibly better option for mages, but not necessarily for Thedas as a whole.

[Hellion Rex]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Mages would be a lot more free than when they were in the Circle. That alone makes it a better option/.

A possibly better option for mages, but not necessarily for Thedas as a whole.

What solution would you advocate?