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Any pro-chantry people here?


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#301
Lotion Soronarr

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eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
You know, I have always hated the few versus the many argument. Despite how true your point is, and I agree that is extremely valid, I cannot seem to separate myself from the plight of the few.



But of course. It just proves you sympathize with the mages (or anyone who suffers really).
Anyone with compassion wouldn't like such a solution.

Few vs. Many is NEVER a popular choice. It's rarely a choice anyone wants to make. It's practicly never a choice one is comfortable living with. But...it's often a necessary choice.

But, in the end, liking or not liking a solution is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Existence is full of suffering. You cannot end all of it. You can only minimize it.

Maybe while we cannot realistically stop all this world's pain, should it not be prudent that we strive towards that goal nonetheless?


And what do you think the Circles are? Pointless cruelty?
Didn't David a long time ago said that all the rules that exist are there for a good, practical reason?
Of course, there has to be balance between practicality, reason and kindness.

Having 100 mages in some pain is a preferable alternative to haveing 1000 non-mages and 10 mages in some pain.

Ultimatively mages and non-mages cannot live as equals. They are not. Altough many fantasy setting championing the ideas of equality, brotherhood and all that jazz have created an image that it is possible - those same settign are also highly unrelistic in the basic human interaction/psychology department.

Untill some other solution present itself, the Circles are the least painfull option for everyone involved. Do they need reform? Possibly. Exactly what rules should be chagned and how is up to debate. After all, one cannot demand current standards - or instantanius implementation of those - from a medieval society. It is simply illogical and impossible..

#302
eyespI

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My Lucrosian-Loyalist Mage Inquisitor will be playing the Martin Luther/Phillip Melancthon (I'm Lutheran) to the Chantrys Catholic Church. Y'all mofos need REFORMATION



#303
Guest_TrillClinton_*

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I did a prochantry playthrough once. One of my worldstates has a prochantry hawke actually, It was a fun play through but I don't see myself doing it again. 

 

I just don't like the idea of belonging to an organization that has political and religious power. Too strong.



#304
Karlone123

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I'm pro-templar, does that count?



#305
KC_Prototype

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I am :)



#306
fizzypop

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I have one world state that is pro-chantry, albeit a little misguided. So the quizzy that uses that will be too.



#307
Kendaric Varkellen

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As pro chantry and anti mage as possible here. If given the choice, my inquisitor would gladly put every mage on the pyre (though I doubt the game will allow me to do that).



#308
Shapeshifter777

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If I actually lived in the world, I would be pro-chantry cause it's the only way to keep chaos at bay and hold order.  That being said, it's just a video game and I rather like chaos in video games.



#309
wicked_design

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I've always dipped into the Pro-Chantry or Pro-Templar path from time to time, because it is understandable why (especially if you're not a mage) people would lean toward that way. 



#310
DKJaigen

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And what do you think the Circles are? Pointless cruelty?
Didn't David a long time ago said that all the rules that exist are there for a good, practical reason?
Of course, there has to be balance between practicality, reason and kindness.

Having 100 mages in some pain is a preferable alternative to haveing 1000 non-mages and 10 mages in some pain.

Ultimatively mages and non-mages cannot live as equals. They are not. Altough many fantasy setting championing the ideas of equality, brotherhood and all that jazz have created an image that it is possible - those same settign are also highly unrelistic in the basic human interaction/psychology department.

 

That kind of thinking created the rebellion in the first place. Mages are not beholden to the mundanes and if the chantry or the templars put restrictions on them purely for the mundanes benefit it will lead to revolt and rightfully so. A system is meant to be beneficial for both parties not for one. technically the system could work if the corruption , incompetence and biggotry of the templars and chantry is be purged. considering how i know how seekers are created i dont need the templars any longer. they are death meat for their betrayal to chantry first and then the whole world when most of them sided with

Spoiler

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#311
Gothfather

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Would anyone play a pro-chantry inquisitor? Maybe allowing people to set up a chantry at the castle or fight in favor of the Andraste? I like how you can set up a chantry in Orzammar to promote the teaching of the Maker. Since I play as a mage in my first file, I may be pro-mage, but in a subsequent playthrough, I may play a dwarf who believes in the Maker. I know that the Chantry has been vivified by a lot of people here, so I'm just wondering if anyone would roleplay as one. You don't necessarily have to support the chantry personally to roleplay as one. 

 

As an atheist I'm going to be pro chantry because my real world opinion of religion won't ruin my chance for an intresting story arc.


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#312
TheShrike2003

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"Cantariac opus sit semper , et in servis suis operibus delectari conditorem .."~May the work of the Chantry continue forever, and may the Maker take pleasure in the works of His servants.. ;)


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#313
Catche Jagger

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I think that I generally fall into the pro-chantry camp. I have been given no real reason to oppose it over the course of the two games and the books. The only real issue that I have with it is it's close ties to Orlais.

#314
DarthLaxian

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Would anyone play a pro-chantry inquisitor? Maybe allowing people to set up a chantry at the castle or fight in favor of the Andraste? I like how you can set up a chantry in Orzammar to promote the teaching of the Maker. Since I play as a mage in my first file, I may be pro-mage, but in a subsequent playthrough, I may play a dwarf who believes in the Maker. I know that the Chantry has been vivified by a lot of people here, so I'm just wondering if anyone would roleplay as one. You don't necessarily have to support the chantry personally to roleplay as one. 

 

No - I will not burn it with fire if some of it can help me (or if it is willing to change...I may be a non-believer myself, but that does not mean I want to tell people what they can believe in (I want religion out of the public life - so no direct political power, no armies (no templars for them) and no indirect political power either -.-)), but I will not save it, if I don't get anything in return (!)

 

Spoiler (!):

 

Maybe I can get Cassy and Leliana to agree with me? (both seem to have a crisis of faith - Leliana can be seen cursing and talking badly of the maker (because if he doesn't value his best - Justinia - and lets them die how can you be sure he values the rest of his believers?) and Cassy you can talk to and she confesses that for the first time she does not know if what she is doing is the right thing (she's lost without the guidance of the divine - like Leliana!))

 

greetings LAX



#315
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I am pro-Chant of Light at least? Not always sure that is equivalent to the Chantry, but most of the time, they're the same.

 

I still like playing all types of characters though.



#316
Drakar123

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The Chantry as it is currently ?I can't say I am terribly fond of it.I consider myself a devout Andrastian but I think that the Chantry has completely misinterpreted some of Andraste's teachings.It is not a bad organization,all things considered but when I look at how they view magic...I can't help but feel that if Andraste saw what they were doing,she would be horrified.The line ''Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." was never meant to be used as an excuse to oppress mages.What is that line even supposed to mean ?

 

It's pure nonsense.It doesn't say that mages should be be denied titles and lands.It doesn't say mages should be made tranquil should the Chantry find them inconvenient.It doesn't say mages should imprisoned and forgotten until they are needed for an exalted march or a blight.And worst of all it does not say that magic is a curse.Believing magic is a curse...I don't think someone could have misinterpreted Andraste's teachings more if they tried.Every single time magic is mentioned in the Chant of Light it is called a gift which is exactly what it is.The greatest gift the Maker gave to his children.

 

I can understand why the Chantry views magic they way it does.It was founded after the collapse of the Tevinter Imperium whose Magisters used their power to commit terrible atrocities.The common people were terrified of what magic could do and when people are afraid they act irrationally.With Andraste dead people were left to interpret her teachings however they wished and this lead to them making a terrible mistake.It made the believe magic is something terrible.Something to be feared and reviled instead of something to be celebrated.

 

To truly understand what Andraste meant one must look at the Chant of Light in it's entirety so they could understand the context of what is perhaps it's most famous and controversial line.''Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.'' means nothing by itself.This excerpt is perhaps my favorite part of the Chant of Light

 

There was no word
For heaven or for earth, for sea or sky.
All that existed was silence.
Then the Voice of the Maker rang out,
The first Word,
And His Word became all that might be:
Dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.
And from it made his firstborn.
And he said to them:
In My image I forge you,
To you I give dominion
Over all that exists.
By your will
May all things be done.

Then in the center of heaven
He called forth
A city with towers of gold,
streets with music for cobblestones,
And banners which flew without wind.
There, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.

The children of the Maker gathered
Before his golden throne
And sang hymns of praise unending.
But their songs
Were the songs of the cobblestones.
They shone with the golden light
Reflected from the Maker's throne.
They held forth the banners
That flew on their own.

And the Voice of the Maker shook the Fade
Saying: In My image I have wrought
My firstborn. You have been given dominion
Over all that exists. By your will
All things are done.
Yet you do nothing.
The realm I have given you
Is formless, ever-changing.

And He knew he had wrought amiss.
So the Maker turned from his firstborn
And took from the Fade
A measure of its living flesh
And placed it apart from the Spirits, and spoke to it, saying:
Here, I decree
Opposition in all things:
For earth, sky
For winter, summer
For darkness, Light.
By My Will alone is Balance sundered
And the world given new life.

And no longer was it formless, ever-changing,
But held fast, immutable,
With Words for heaven and for earth, sea and sky.
At last did the Maker
From the living world
Make men. Immutable, as the substance of the earth,
With souls made of dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.

Then the Maker said:
To you, my second-born, I grant this gift:
In your heart shall burn
An unquenchable flame
All-consuming, and never satisfied.
From the Fade I crafted you,
And to the Fade you shall return
Each night in dreams
That you may always remember me.

And then the Maker sealed the gates
Of the Golden City
And there, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.

 

It explains the Maker's motivation for creating both the fade and the real world.His first children were the spirits who lived in the fade.When he made them,he gave them the power to alter reality as they pleased.When all they did was admire the golden city he saw the mistake he had made.The fade is a realm of concepts and ideas which does not posses the laws of physics as we know them or indeed any laws at all.It is the will of it's inhabitants that decides how the fade will behave but because nothing but the golden city existed at the time they had nothing else to base their creations on.They knew not of pride and desire.They knew not of hope of love and of joy.They could not envision mountains or rivers because these concepts did not exist until the maker decided to create them.

 

The spirits could have never made any of these things.Not because they lacked the power to do so but because they could not even begin to imagine them.Just try to imagine a new color and you will realize how difficult it is.That is why the Maker decided to make the real world and the species that inhabit it.He believed that they with their emotions and their drive would look upon the world he had made and seek to emulate him,to surpass him,to create something truly new and beautiful.

 

That is also why mankind was given magic.The spirits of the fade were given the ability to do with their realm as they wished and it amounted to nothing.The same thing would have happened in a world that was truly immutable.His secondborn would have failed just as the spirits did but where the spirits failed due a lack of creativity,the mortals would have failed due to a lack of power.Mages exist as a compromise between the two extremes.Their gift is meant to be used for the betterment of mankind and for the betterment of the world itself.That is why the Chant of Light condemns it's misuse and why referring to it as a curse is wrong.That's what I believe at least.

 

As for the circles ?Yes,they are necessary if only to teach mages how to use their gift properly.They should be free to leave once their studies are done however.They should be given vacations so they could visit their families (albeit with supervision) and their families should be allowed to visit them.They should also be better prepared for the harrowing.Throwing them in blind is stupid.I think being born a mage should not mean one losses all their tittles and lands.Mages should have the same rights as all other citizens.I believe that mages should be allowed to govern themselves so that the magic they could learn is not limited to abilities templars could counter.A shapeshifter could just turn into a bird and fly out of the tower which is why that particular skillset is not taught.There are many other methods one could use to make it impossible for the templars to do anything which are forbidden.It greatly limits knowledge.Other mages would be able to counter all these advancements with adequate protections.That is all.Sorry for the wall of text :)

 

 

 

 


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#317
herkles

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My main Inquistor is pro-chantry, but I will also be playing inqistors who are pro-tevinter chantry, anti-chantry and so on. 



#318
KCMeredith

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Warden was neutral, Blight was a bit more important than worrying about it.

Hawke was pro-mage for 90% of the game until Anders decided to blow up a church.

Inquisitor will be extremely pro chantry


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#319
Senya

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Pro-Chantry here.

#320
WardenWade

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I support Justinia's work.  My elven Inquisitors will look to help Leliana and Cassandra make her vision of the Chantry a reality, as much as possible.



#321
Aren

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As pro chantry and anti mage as possible here. If given the choice, my inquisitor would gladly put every mage on the pyre (though I doubt the game will allow me to do that).

Even  Flemeth?

But serious is hard to me to figure an Inquisitor who is not near to the Chantry, with the title of Inquisitor..



#322
TimXP

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My characters are usually thumbs up on the faith, hope, and charity side of the Chantry, thumbs down on the lifetime imprisonment of anyone who can make sparks with their hands thing.



#323
Meredydd

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My human PC will be pro-Chantry, but I will be instigating some reforms though. Just to try and stop radicals, like Petrice, and drug addiction with the Templars.

I agree with most of the Chantry's deeds and beliefs. But there are some things that just have to go. I'm fine with the Chantry having a small military group for security purposes, but not a massive army like the Templars. This only invites corruption by those in power.

I will play a pro-Chantry Inquisitor, but that doesn't mean I'll be a slave to whatever they say. My PC will reform the Chantry to be a more moral organisation than it was before, so that stuff like the Exalted Marches and other violent and radical deeds that go against the Andrastian teachings don't happen. 

That is, if we can do this in the game. If not...well I'll just have to backhand some morons who call themselves "Andrastians" but are actually a disgrace to everything the Chantry stands for.



#324
Rawgrim

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Not really pro-Chantry, but anti-blood-mage\nutcase mage.



#325
KaiserShep

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I'm indifferent to the whole religious side of the Chantry, but I'm totally pro-Chanter's board, because everyone likes sovereigns. My Inquisitor will be fairly pro-Chantry, though not fond of a lot of the politics involved.