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Any pro-chantry people here?


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#326
Ieldra

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im so anti religion that I cant even roleplay a prochantry type.

I'm also anti-religion, but I see the inability to play a devout Andrastean as undesirable. I aim to be able to play all possible types of characters. It's difficult though. The devout Andrasteans I start tend to change their ways during the story. My Andrastean Hawke did OK, but my Andrastean Warden ended up thinking more like Morrigan in the end (she helped him along considerably).

 

The Chantry itself is a somewhat separate topic. I think I'll be able to embrace the "Herald of Andraste" in one of my playthroughs, but playing pro-Chantry may be more difficult. We'll see. My first Inquisitor will be pro-mage and anti-Chantry, and she'll do her best to keep this "Herald of Andraste" business away from her.



#327
Applepie_Svk

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That´s a dilema ... LOL

 

real world religion VS fantasy world religion



#328
DarthLaxian

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The Chantry as it is currently ?I can't say I am terribly fond of it.I consider myself a devout Andrastian but I think that the Chantry has completely misinterpreted some of Andraste's teachings.It is not a bad organization,all things considered but when I look at how they view magic...I can't help but feel that if Andraste saw what they were doing,she would be horrified.The line ''Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." was never meant to be used as an excuse to oppress mages.What is that line even supposed to mean ?

 

It's pure nonsense.It doesn't say that mages should be be denied titles and lands.It doesn't say mages should be made tranquil should the Chantry find them inconvenient.It doesn't say mages should imprisoned and forgotten until they are needed for an exalted march or a blight.And worst of all it does not say that magic is a curse.Believing magic is a curse...I don't think someone could have misinterpreted Andraste's teachings more if they tried.Every single time magic is mentioned in the Chant of Light it is called a gift which is exactly what it is.The greatest gift the Maker gave to his children.

 

I can understand why the Chantry views magic they way it does.It was founded after the collapse of the Tevinter Imperium whose Magisters used their power to commit terrible atrocities.The common people were terrified of what magic could do and when people are afraid they act irrationally.With Andraste dead people were left to interpret her teachings however they wished and this lead to them making a terrible mistake.It made the believe magic is something terrible.Something to be feared and reviled instead of something to be celebrated.

 

To truly understand what Andraste meant one must look at the Chant of Light in it's entirety so they could understand the context of what is perhaps it's most famous and controversial line.''Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.'' means nothing by itself.This excerpt is perhaps my favorite part of the Chant of Light

 

There was no word
For heaven or for earth, for sea or sky.
All that existed was silence.
Then the Voice of the Maker rang out,
The first Word,
And His Word became all that might be:
Dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.
And from it made his firstborn.
And he said to them:
In My image I forge you,
To you I give dominion
Over all that exists.
By your will
May all things be done.

Then in the center of heaven
He called forth
A city with towers of gold,
streets with music for cobblestones,
And banners which flew without wind.
There, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.

The children of the Maker gathered
Before his golden throne
And sang hymns of praise unending.
But their songs
Were the songs of the cobblestones.
They shone with the golden light
Reflected from the Maker's throne.
They held forth the banners
That flew on their own.

And the Voice of the Maker shook the Fade
Saying: In My image I have wrought
My firstborn. You have been given dominion
Over all that exists. By your will
All things are done.
Yet you do nothing.
The realm I have given you
Is formless, ever-changing.

And He knew he had wrought amiss.
So the Maker turned from his firstborn
And took from the Fade
A measure of its living flesh
And placed it apart from the Spirits, and spoke to it, saying:
Here, I decree
Opposition in all things:
For earth, sky
For winter, summer
For darkness, Light.
By My Will alone is Balance sundered
And the world given new life.

And no longer was it formless, ever-changing,
But held fast, immutable,
With Words for heaven and for earth, sea and sky.
At last did the Maker
From the living world
Make men. Immutable, as the substance of the earth,
With souls made of dream and idea, hope and fear,
Endless possibilities.

Then the Maker said:
To you, my second-born, I grant this gift:
In your heart shall burn
An unquenchable flame
All-consuming, and never satisfied.
From the Fade I crafted you,
And to the Fade you shall return
Each night in dreams
That you may always remember me.

And then the Maker sealed the gates
Of the Golden City
And there, He dwelled, waiting
To see the wonders
His children would create.

 

It explains the Maker's motivation for creating both the fade and the real world.His first children were the spirits who lived in the fade.When he made them,he gave them the power to alter reality as they pleased.When all they did was admire the golden city he saw the mistake he had made.The fade is a realm of concepts and ideas which does not posses the laws of physics as we know them or indeed any laws at all.It is the will of it's inhabitants that decides how the fade will behave but because nothing but the golden city existed at the time they had nothing else to base their creations on.They knew not of pride and desire.They knew not of hope of love and of joy.They could not envision mountains or rivers because these concepts did not exist until the maker decided to create them.

 

The spirits could have never made any of these things.Not because they lacked the power to do so but because they could not even begin to imagine them.Just try to imagine a new color and you will realize how difficult it is.That is why the Maker decided to make the real world and the species that inhabit it.He believed that they with their emotions and their drive would look upon the world he had made and seek to emulate him,to surpass him,to create something truly new and beautiful.

 

That is also why mankind was given magic.The spirits of the fade were given the ability to do with their realm as they wished and it amounted to nothing.The same thing would have happened in a world that was truly immutable.His secondborn would have failed just as the spirits did but where the spirits failed due a lack of creativity,the mortals would have failed due to a lack of power.Mages exist as a compromise between the two extremes.Their gift is meant to be used for the betterment of mankind and for the betterment of the world itself.That is why the Chant of Light condemns it's misuse and why referring to it as a curse is wrong.That's what I believe at least.

 

As for the circles ?Yes,they are necessary if only to teach mages how to use their gift properly.They should be free to leave once their studies are done however.They should be given vacations so they could visit their families (albeit with supervision) and their families should be allowed to visit them.They should also be better prepared for the harrowing.Throwing them in blind is stupid.I think being born a mage should not mean one losses all their tittles and lands.Mages should have the same rights as all other citizens.I believe that mages should be allowed to govern themselves so that the magic they could learn is not limited to abilities templars could counter.A shapeshifter could just turn into a bird and fly out of the tower which is why that particular skillset is not taught.There are many other methods one could use to make it impossible for the templars to do anything which are forbidden.It greatly limits knowledge.Other mages would be able to counter all these advancements with adequate protections.That is all.Sorry for the wall of text :)

 

 

With the exception of the maker things (and Andraste) - as we don't know if he (and his prophetess) really exist(ed) - you are IMHO spot on :)

 

greetings LAX

ps: Yes, I am quite the non-believer, that's why I doubt the existance of any gods and their prophets (Note: I don't want religion forbidden - I don't care what somebody believes, as longs as he/she does not try to convert me and as long as they don't fight non-believers as a whole (meaning: If christians, muslims etc. are allowed to propagate their believe and advertise for it (bus-campaigns, web-pages, adverts in papers etc.) so should non-believers. If believers are allowed their own holidays, so should non-believers - and so on and so forth) I don't care - I only get riled up, if people try to push their believes into laws (like christians who are against abortions trying to force other people not to have them - or be allowed to have them even!) and the public domain...religion should IMHO be private business and remain there!)



#329
Bann Duncan

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I genuinely think people's antagonism towards the Chantry is based on a rather facile equation of the Chantry and RL religion by people who are bitter about having been dragged to church in childhood or something. On a similar note, mages get automatic free passes from a lot of players because they identify mages as an equivalent of gamers, or something.

 

As for me, I don't have a particular opinion of the Chantry (or mages). There's good and bad, and while there are Petrices there are also Lelianas, so it's hard to write them off as one thing or the other completely. That's a good thing. I like that BioWare lets individualism run through Dragon Age, instead of splitting the cultures of the world into monolithic blocks. I find the Chantry fascinating, as I do the Qun, the Circle, the Templars, the dwarves, and the Dalish. I love how richly developed everything is.

 

As for my characters, I feel that my first Warden, a Cousland (the Bann Duncan of my username), and my mage would have been believers, as would my Hawkes. My other Wardens not necessarily; the female Cousland I think was a believer, but not as practicing, the Dalish was, well, Dalish, and  the dwarves had their eyes opened by the surface world. They were not Chantry or elven gods believers necessarily, but I think they came to see the limits of the Paragon worship when they left Orzammar.



#330
Osena109

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As a Christian my self   I  don't support the Chantry its a mockery   of my Beliefs so am  vary happy its in shambles  



#331
Arachlia

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Chantry has it's good sides and bad sides, never played "burn the church"- characters. My Tabris Warden was definitly Andrastian, and so were my human nobles. Human Inquisitors and maybe one dwarf will be somewhat pro-Chantry.

 

It really depends on situation.



#332
Sartoz

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The Chantry stiffles innovation and free thinking. The Templars are vicious Jailers of innocent mages.

Templars, an arm of the Chantry, are all drug addicts, secretly imbibing Lyrium... Lyrium which is controlled by the Hypocritical Chantry. The Seeker's responsibility is to guard the Guards. In other words, ensure the Templars followed the rules..... In Kirkwall, Templars ran rampart,,, where were the Seekers?

 

I'm for freedom. Let the mages set up their own "security forces" to control and punish mage crimes.

 

I'm a mage supporter.



#333
Sartoz

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The Chantry kinda has the right the idea, I don't agree with how they treat the mages but magic is dangerous to both Mages and non-Mages

That's where the Circle comes in

Ideed?

And templars running ramprt, flouting rules an NOT dangerous?

Templars kidnapping innocent children are NOT dangerous?

Templars jailing people who committed no crime are NOT dangerous?

Templars imposing the Rite of Tranquility for no valid reason (in DA2) are NOT dangerous?

Slavers are NOT Dangerous?

Orlesian nobles treating elves like chattel are NOT dangerous?

Civil wars are NOT dangerous?

 

There is no question that the Chantry does good with the poor which is totally contradicted by their support

for kidnapping and jailing of innocents and supporting the drug cravings of their Templars.

 

I can support the Chantry if they support the mages.



#334
Sartoz

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And what do you think the Circles are? Pointless cruelty?

 

Yes I do. Indeed I do.... and it is a crime.

 

Mages can set up their own "mage policing forces", like Kirkwall's police (ie; The Guards) to enforce

the Law along side the "civil" police.



#335
Applepie_Svk

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Ideed?

And templars running ramprt, flouting rules an NOT dangerous?

Templars kidnapping innocent children are NOT dangerous?

Templars jailing people who committed no crime are NOT dangerous?

Templars imposing the Rite of Tranquility for no valid reason (in DA2) are NOT dangerous?

Slavers are NOT Dangerous?

Orlesian nobles treating elves like chattel are NOT dangerous?

Civil wars are NOT dangerous?

 

There is no question that the Chantry does good with the poor which is totally contradicted by their support

for kidnapping and jailing of innocents and supporting the drug cravings of their Templars.

 

I can support the Chantry if they support the mages.

 

All according to law of the chantry, they are only enforcers of the law, not its creators. Totally other thing is corruption within a templar ranks but the same works for mages aswell. Also there is preliminary arrest, in real world you can arrest someone just for few hours, days to prevent potential suscpect from escaping. Than I would not take much Ander´s word about his tranquil friend for much weight, Anders killed already few templars and he could pull his friend to mud by own doing, even if it´s not fair to that guy.

 

Templars were made to enforce the law and deffend against wrong kind of magic and its abuse. yes slavers or war or racism are wrong, but they have nothing to do with the chantry, not in the way as magic does. Chantry may only try to change a way that world is thinking, but they cannot enforce the ideas of greater good or anything like that, unless they call for some crussade, but it would mean a holy war and that would make chantry as bad as any of the empires, politicians etc.

 

That´s why is Qun right in something...