96 réponses à ce sujet

[jakenou]

Anno husk horde mode me pls (but no Scions!!)

[cato potato]

Anno, why does everything come down to platform wars with you? I agreed with your post right up till that point.

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Basically, you have two kinds of cheating here:

1) Outside the matches (mainly credit glitching)
2) Inside the matches (creating a disadvantage for opponents, AI enemies in this case)

Putting yourself at an advantageous position in this game is always done at the expense of the opponents.

Saying "removing certain objectives for soling is cheating because it puts you in an advantageous position" is akin to saying that you're cheating because you're using Black Widow as opposed to someone else who's using Mantis, because you're putting yourself in an advantageous position.

Reading only half a definition is rarely accurate.

I really wish I knew what you're trying to say.

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

[Tokenusername]

Annomander wrote...

Providing you are not altering any criteria which would not be possible under usual circumstances, I fail to see the issue with it.

That is exactly what removing objectives does.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:18 .

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Basically, you have two kinds of cheating here:

1) Outside the matches (mainly credit glitching)
2) Inside the matches (creating a disadvantage for opponents, AI enemies in this case)

Putting yourself at an advantageous position in this game is always done at the expense of the opponents.

Saying "removing certain objectives for soling is cheating because it puts you in an advantageous position" is akin to saying that you're cheating because you're using Black Widow as opposed to someone else who's using Mantis, because you're putting yourself in an advantageous position.

Reading only half a definition is rarely accurate.

I really wish I knew what you're trying to say.

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

So, when I change the game but don't actually create a disadvantageous position for my opponents, I'm still cheating?

[Uh Cold]

Annomander wrote...

I hax

[BridgeBurner]

jkthunder wrote...

Anno husk horde mode me pls (but no Scions!!)

Sure whenever you want, probably will play a little tonight after I've fixed the scion problem....

[BridgeBurner]

cato_84 wrote...

Anno, why does everything come down to platform wars with you? I agreed with your post right up till that point.

Not at all, I was merely citing the fact that on a whole, the vast majority of people who take issue with modding are console players.

Secondly, I was happy to concede that PC players already have advantages in speedruns, and as a result it is hugely unfair to categorise a PC speed run which has <10 seconds of load time at the start with a console speedrun that has 30 seconds of load time.

As a consequence, it is highly unfair to categorise PC and console speedruns in the same category, as there are simply too many advantages that PC players have. If these pre-existing advantages are not considered cheating, then a further advantage which all PC players are free to make use of if they desire should also not be considered cheating.

While people may take exception to it, Deerber freely admitted to modding objective selection chances, so as to create an "ideal" speedrunning environment.

While I am in favour of people competing for speedrun times, I do NOT think we should be categorising console speed runs and PC speedruns in the same category. If I load into glacier, that's me already got a 30 second headstart, even before you factor in everything else that swings the advantage to PC players.

The key thing here, is that you are simply increasing the likelihood of getting "ideal" situations to speed run in, not creating a situation which would otherwise be impossible under regular circumstances.

Modifié par Annomander, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:45 .

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Putting yourself at an advantageous position in this game is always done at the expense of the opponents.

Saying "removing certain objectives for soling is cheating because it puts you in an advantageous position" is akin to saying that you're cheating because you're using Black Widow as opposed to someone else who's using Mantis, because you're putting yourself in an advantageous position.

Reading only half a definition is rarely accurate.

I really wish I knew what you're trying to say.

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

So, when I change the game but don't actually create a disadvantageous position for my opponents, I'm still cheating?

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Modifié par Tokenusername, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:25 .

[Zjarcal]

Choice 1: Do several runs and waste lots of time waiting for the RNG to give you what you want.

Choice 2: Troll the RNG and make it give you what you want right away, saving time and frustration.

End result is the same (a run with optimal objectives), but the second one avoids frustration and waste of time.

I don't even make excuses, haxxxed coalsced ftw.

Besides, who the hell cares about "cheating" in ME3 anymore, stuff like Ishy's 1000% legit video is way more entertaining to watch anyway.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:27 .

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Putting yourself at an advantageous position in this game is always done at the expense of the opponents.

Saying "removing certain objectives for soling is cheating because it puts you in an advantageous position" is akin to saying that you're cheating because you're using Black Widow as opposed to someone else who's using Mantis, because you're putting yourself in an advantageous position.

Reading only half a definition is rarely accurate.

I really wish I knew what you're trying to say.

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

So, when I change the game but don't actually create a disadvantageous position for my opponents, I'm still cheating?

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Yes I did, but 

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

you just said that merely changing your game files (regardless of the outcome) equals cheating.

Modifié par Heldarion, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:28 .

[Evil]

cato_84 wrote...

Anno, why does everything come down to platform wars with you? I agreed with your post right up till that point.

This.
Not all console players are 12 year old scrubs Anno.
Some of us are ex pc players who used to mess arround with mods on pc before the demands of working for a living pushed us towards the pick up and play convenience of consoles.
As long as no other player was hurt by your actions, and you didn't gain position on a leaderboard without earning it, most sensible people here don't have a problem with it.
The same as most peope didn't mind G/G/white grinding matches, as long as they were set to private, not public.
Console/pc has nothing to do with it.

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Yes I did, but 

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

you just said that merely changing your game files (regardless of the outcome) equals cheating.

You may want to reread that.

[BridgeBurner]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Putting yourself at an advantageous position in this game is always done at the expense of the opponents.

Saying "removing certain objectives for soling is cheating because it puts you in an advantageous position" is akin to saying that you're cheating because you're using Black Widow as opposed to someone else who's using Mantis, because you're putting yourself in an advantageous position.

Reading only half a definition is rarely accurate.

I really wish I knew what you're trying to say.

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

So, when I change the game but don't actually create a disadvantageous position for my opponents, I'm still cheating?

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

While I do see that you would find it a little unfair that PC speed runners can essentially choose only the fast objectives, I once again fail to see how this is an issue.

You might as well call us cheaters for having shorter load times too.

My load times are shorter than most, thanks to SSD + SATA III and an overclocked processor, and my game runs at 120fps....

Which raises interesting questions...

Does that make me a cheater, compared to Deerber, since my load time is shorter?

Or...

Does that make Deerber a cheater, because his AI only get's a location update every 333ms, instead of every 166ms?

So, who's cheating more in that regard? 

If you're prepared to say that anything within the range of "possible under regular circumstances, no matter how probable" can be considered cheating, simply if you increase the liklihood of it, then I don't really know how to respond to that.

Modifié par Annomander, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:37 .

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Yes I did, but 

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

you just said that merely changing your game files (regardless of the outcome) equals cheating.

You may want to reread that.

This is not in the same sense cheating? So, it is cheating in some other sense, but still cheating?

edit: you may want to rewrite that sentence.

Modifié par Heldarion, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Deerber]

Guys, could you please not get my thread locked while I'm away? K ths bye XD

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Yes I did, but 

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

you just said that merely changing your game files (regardless of the outcome) equals cheating.

You may want to reread that.

This is not in the same sense cheating? So, it is cheating in some other sense, but still cheating?

Forgive me if I phrased it confusingly, but what I was trying to say is that I don't really consider making the game harder cheating. I also wouldn't consider altering how the game fundamentally plays as cheating (such as "husk mode") as this doesn't so much change the rules as it does introduce an entirely new set of rules.

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Did you not just say you can't have one without the other?

Yes I did, but 

You're focusing on the fact I said that cheating is advantageous, and ignoring the fact I said specifically when it is a result of altering the game. There are also those that alter the game to put themselves at a disadvantage, and this is not in the same sense cheating.

you just said that merely changing your game files (regardless of the outcome) equals cheating.

You may want to reread that.

This is not in the same sense cheating? So, it is cheating in some other sense, but still cheating?

Forgive me if I phrased it confusingly, but what I was trying to say is that I don't really consider making the game harder cheating. I also wouldn't consider altering how the game fundamentally plays as cheating (such as "husk mode") as this doesn't so much change the rules as it does introduce an entirely new set of rules.

Speedrunning also introduces an entirely new rule (and you don't even need to change the game for that), because fastest extraction, rather than merely an extraction, becomes the norm.

[UnknownMercenary]

you only got around to trying claymore novaguard now?

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Forgive me if I phrased it confusingly, but what I was trying to say is that I don't really consider making the game harder cheating. I also wouldn't consider altering how the game fundamentally plays as cheating (such as "husk mode") as this doesn't so much change the rules as it does introduce an entirely new set of rules.

Speedrunning also introduces an entirely new rule (and you don't even need to change the game for that), because fastest extraction, rather than merely an extraction, becomes the norm.

Speedrunning creates a change in playstyle, not the fundamental rules of the game.

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Forgive me if I phrased it confusingly, but what I was trying to say is that I don't really consider making the game harder cheating. I also wouldn't consider altering how the game fundamentally plays as cheating (such as "husk mode") as this doesn't so much change the rules as it does introduce an entirely new set of rules.

Speedrunning also introduces an entirely new rule (and you don't even need to change the game for that), because fastest extraction, rather than merely an extraction, becomes the norm.

Speedrunning creates a change in playstyle, not the fundamental rules of the game.

For the sake of simplicity 

Normal match:

Extraction - win
No extraction - loss

Speedrunning match:

No extraction - loss
Slower extraction - loss
Faster extraction - win

Modifié par Heldarion, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:43 .

[Fortack]

I don't see the difference between selecting the best map & enemy faction using the in-game options, and selecting the best objectives using a different option. They are the same thing.

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Forgive me if I phrased it confusingly, but what I was trying to say is that I don't really consider making the game harder cheating. I also wouldn't consider altering how the game fundamentally plays as cheating (such as "husk mode") as this doesn't so much change the rules as it does introduce an entirely new set of rules.

Speedrunning also introduces an entirely new rule (and you don't even need to change the game for that), because fastest extraction, rather than merely an extraction, becomes the norm.

Speedrunning creates a change in playstyle, not the fundamental rules of the game.

For the sake of simplicity 

Normal match:

Extraction - win
No extraction - loss

Speedrunning match:

No extraction - loss
Slower extraction - loss
Faster extraction - win

That's a personal objective. The game will still consider it a win whether it takes 20 minutes or 2 hours.

[Tokenusername]

Fortack wrote...

I don't see the difference between selecting the best map & enemy faction using the in-game options, and selecting the best objectives using a different option. They are the same thing.

The fact the game will let you do one and not the other?

[ISHYGDDT]

Tokenusername wrote...

That's a personal objective. The game will still consider it a win whether it takes 20 minutes or 2 hours.

Well yeah, no kidding.  Ever since we got good enough at gold to not wipe as a team any additional constraints have been personal objectives.  Soloing at all is a personal objective.  Soloing in a time challenge is a personal objective.  If you don't consider this solo noteworthy for this reason, fine, but quite a few other people who solo speedrun do.