1220 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

I'm fine with exceptions (Sebastian doesn't bother me at all), but I still think equality should be the rule.

When it is the rule, then I agree that it's an artificial limitation to only play a single character (regardless if that character is an expression of yourself or something else) or to only think of a single character when considering the content "you" want to see (like I said earlier, I readily admit that a lot of people project themselves when expressing their desires for what they want to have access to in the game—I even do it myself, because I know there are certain traits my "main" character will always possess, and I want that character to be able to access all the content I suspect I'll like most).

Without equality, however, the situation seems to become "you can play this way, but if you want to do this, then you have to play that way". To me, that's not an artificial limitation imposed by the character you've chosen to play—that's an actual limitation (if you want choice in romance, you have no choice in character).

Modifié par devSin, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:37 .

[Silfren]

LindsayLohan wrote...

I thought companions were supposed to give us there perspective on thedas? I would like to meet a racist and homophobic companion on thedas just to give me an insight on how thedas thinks about such topics.

I have to address this because you've made two posts on this notion and it just seems so out-of-left-field nonsensical that I can't tell if you're serious or not.

First off, we have lore on the general Thedosian perspective on such topics.  Homophobia does not exist.  There are no religious or cultural reasons anywhere in Thedas that would lead to societal condemnation of homosexuality as an aberration.  This is well established.

Secondly, we've met PLENTY of racism, on the societal and individual level, in the setting.  Literalistic racism as that between elves and humans, and racism akin to real world prejudice, as seen in the attitudes of Orlesians and Fereldens for one another, intense suspicion toward the Chasind people, etc.

Finally...are you really not able to grasp the fact that no character being homophobic DOES give you insight into how Thedas views the issue?  If no characters anywhere express homophobic views, then what that tells you is that homophobia does not exist within any of the world's cultures. It's not that hard to figure out.  

[Fredward]

SirGladiator wrote...
 If there's going to be an imbalance like that again, it's only fair there be more female LIs than male LIs this time, just to even things up.

It is not "evening things up" it's perpetuating the same system of inequality that spawned it. You just swapped the players. The only way things are going to move forward is if you STOP doing this. You are not ever going to rectify past injustices by inflicting them on a different group. It's the past. Yes it was wrong but you can't change it, you can only move forward. I really do not get why so many, many people seem unable to grasp this.

[Ieldra]

@SirGladiator:
Actually, in DA2 w/DLC straight females had more options than straight males. Quite the contrast to ME3.

[Ninja Stan]

I'd like to remind this thread that we can disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling, or other childish behaviour. And that goes for both sides of the argument. Thank you.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@SirGladiator:
Actually, in DA2 w/DLC straight females had more options than straight males. Quite the contrast to ME3.

QFT

[Shadow Fox]

This thread's still open?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:09 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I'd like to remind this thread that we can disagree with each other without resorting to insults, name-calling, or other childish behaviour. And that goes for both sides of the argument. Thank you.

I---I'm not sure I...understand...?

[ObserverStatus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

[Cainhurst Crow]

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

He's obsessed with looks and shoes. Maybe it's just me, but that's pretty femme.

Unique, but still femme.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

I always took more issue with the "Teh magez iz evhulz! No mattah what!" Angle he went with because it added to the annoyance I already got from Anders and his "Da Templas is teh suxor! Mages are coolio!" bit.

[ObserverStatus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

He's obsessed with looks and shoes. Maybe it's just me, but that's pretty femme.
Unique, but still femme.

You said feminine looking though.

[ObserverStatus]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

I always took more issue with the "Teh magez iz evhulz! No mattah what!" Angle he went with because it added to the annoyance I already got from Anders and his "Da Templas is teh suxor! Mages are coolio!" bit.

I don't remember Zevran saying anything about mages...

[Cainhurst Crow]

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

He's obsessed with looks and shoes. Maybe it's just me, but that's pretty femme.
Unique, but still femme.

You said feminine looking though.

very true, my mistake. I will need to edit that, but I would still like to see an elf who wasn't straight outta final fantasy and wasn't, you know, kinda girly or playing to any certain stereotypes. If you know what I mean.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:08 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

bobobo878 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Aside from the hair, Zevran didn't look feminine. Like, at all.

I always took more issue with the "Teh magez iz evhulz! No mattah what!" Angle he went with because it added to the annoyance I already got from Anders and his "Da Templas is teh suxor! Mages are coolio!" bit.

I don't remember Zevran saying anything about mages...

Whoops! Thought someone was talking about Fenris.

Never mind.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
I always took more issue with the "Teh magez iz evhulz! No mattah what!" Angle he went with because it added to the annoyance I already got from Anders and his "Da Templas is teh suxor! Mages are coolio!" bit.

Fenris isn't far off, really. He's from a land where he was enslaved by magisters, experimented on and fled from. Then he goes to Kirkwall, which is practically Blood Mages R'Us. I swear practically every mage you meet in the game is insane, with the notable exception of MageHawke and Bethany.

[devSin]

Filament wrote...

Had to edit the post 30 minutes later to give me something to disagree with. 

I think it mostly covers everything, though. I'd probably state things a bit differently if it had all come up at the same time, but my posts rarely seem to work out that way.

Filament wrote...

Though I don't think it's really that problematic if there's not a Cortez for every Alistair in any one game.

Perhaps in the fantasy world where there's also a game where there's not an Alistair for every Cortez.

But not in this world, not to me, sorry.

Modifié par devSin, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Fenris and Zevran are two examples of close with no cigar. If it's not overly small and fragile looks reminiscent of a bishonen anime, it's strange metrosexual personality quarks that play all too overused cards in character writing with a antonio benderez spanish accent. Bioware has shown they can get a good personality for the characters down, they have a lot to draw from with elves. They just dropped the ball with the design in DA2, which is why i'd like to see an elf look more like this,



And less like this



And not because of witcher, but just for the sake of goddamn variety.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[Wheel_of_Fate]

Palidane wrote...

Well, that escalated quickly. Anyway, let's try to steer this topic back on track.

I think player-sexual is the certainly the most practical option, but I dislike it. I think a person's sexuality is an important part of their identity, and should not be discarded so easily. Playing a straight male Shepard, I remember being very impressed with the friendship paths for Cortez and Traynor. Their homosexuality was part of who they were, not the only thing they were. I liked comparing eye-candy with Cortez in Purgatory, or getting dumped by Traynor over a game of chess (not to mention all the great Citadel banter between her and EDI). I grew to be friends with both of them over the game, and I would like to see that dynamic again.

In general, I dislike player-centered narcissism. I feel it violates a companions integrity as a character, while also hamstringing the writers. A lot of people say stuff like "Oh, I loved Morrigan, but it was stupid that I couldn't have a lesbian romance with her", but that sounds to me a lot more like "I loved Fenris as a character, but it was stupid that he wouldn't fall in love with a mage-loving maleficar! Why don't my companions worldview completely change to accommodate my fickle whims?".

Exactly.

Modifié par Wheel_of_Fate, 08 septembre 2013 - 12:13 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

I went to sleep and this thread was SEVEN PAGES WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.

[WildOrchid]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I went to sleep and this thread was SEVEN PAGES WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.

Lol, same. 

[Wheel_of_Fate]

EntropicAngel wrote...

spirosz wrote...

So what are we really angry about here?

Power.


You know, I was thinking about racism and sexism today. Or, so-called racism and sexism. I was thinking about college organizations like the "Women's Society of Engineers" or the "Black Student Union."

Now what does this tell us? This tells us that these groups, who scream about segregation and integration, are not afraid, and indeed welcome segregating themselves from others.

So this made me wonder: if these people actually do not dislike segregation, and indeed prefer it enough to create their own organizations, then why do they argue against it? I came to the conclusion of power. They want to be in a position of power themselves--in reality they are perpetrating the same segregation that they fought against for so many years. The only difference is that they're on...the other side of the glass, as it were. They have the power (at least in their mind).

Power, my friend.

That is actually quite an interesting remark.