1220 réponses à ce sujet

[DaringMoosejaw]

Wheel_of_Fate wrote...

That is actually quite an interesting remark. 

Unfortunately it will be dismissed entirely as white privileged cisgender misogynist racism.

To say something on-topic, though, opinion hasn't changed: Just make everyone playersexual, although characterization is important in my mind it isn't SO important I agree with locking so much content from someone based on their gender decisions.

If I have one complaint, it's that DA2 sometimes forced you to flirt with someone OR be an ****, with no option of just being friendly. It'd be nice if there was a Flirt option, wholly seperate from the other options, at some point in the game that YOU had to pick or the other character wouldn't even mention romance.

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 08 septembre 2013 - 12:33 .

[jmadsen]

Phate Phoenix wrote...

In a perfect world, all companions would be love interests.

Dragon age is an RPG, not a dating sim, if you wanna play one go do that. Romance options are limited to a few because ****ing your companions isn't the main focus.

Modifié par jmadsen, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:03 .

[Wheel_of_Fate]

greengoron89 wrote...

tiktac wrote...

because works of fiction have no bearing on and are never affected by the society that creates them yeah???

Works of fiction are the the intellectual property of whoever created them. If an author/director/developer/etc. wants to feature gay and lesbian characters in their work, then that is their right. If not, then that is also their right.

Bioware has shown a willingness to listen to their fans and have made strides to cater to them in ways most other developers have not or will not. That's quite a shift in the winds as it is, yet you would not only ask but demand more.

The fact that you would make so many demands of the creator on how to create their work speaks volumes of how arrogant and entitled you are. It's a corner Bioware has painted themselves into even before the ME3 ending fiasco.

I'd repeat that line you love so much, but it's not necessary at this point.

^This.

[esper]

I am pretty sure that Gaider's view of the is that equality comes first, so I don't doubt that the female to male ratio will be even.

[9TailsFox]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Well dragon age pander to female gamers. They have Alistair and Zevran. In DA2 Anders and Fenris. Well i don't like fenris but female go crazy for him. And we male get Leliana crazy, Isabela who sleep half of Thedas, and kid Merrill.. Well at least we get Morrigan.

[Thiefy]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Wheel_of_Fate wrote...

That is actually quite an interesting remark. 

Unfortunately it will be dismissed entirely as white privileged cisgender misogynist racism.

To say something on-topic, though, opinion hasn't changed: Just make everyone playersexual, although characterization is important in my mind it isn't SO important I agree with locking so much content from someone based on their gender decisions.

If I have one complaint, it's that DA2 sometimes forced you to flirt with someone OR be an ****, with no option of just being friendly. It'd be nice if there was a Flirt option, wholly seperate from the other options, at some point in the game that YOU had to pick or the other character wouldn't even mention romance.

that's because it is about racism and misogyny. If you can't understand that a marginalized  group needs a safe place or a set of resources only for themselves, then you are part of the problem.

It's like asking why gay people need a gay pride parade, or why black people need black history month when straight people or white people "don't have either" either because they are too ignorant to notice they are already heavily catered to EVERYDAY, or simple don't care. 

That's call privilage.

BTW, DA2 did not force you to flirt with anyone. That "forced to flirt with Anders" diatrabe is complete BS when you take into account that if you take the dialouge tree does have an option for you to avoid the "flirt issue" without taking rivalry points at all.

Unless you are speaking of times when, as a gay M!Hawke, the player is undesirably approached by females - in which case, carry on.

Considering there isn't really a stigma against LGBT community in the DA-verse compared to real life, I'm actually surprised they don't have more visibility in the game. Well, maybe not "surprised", and more stumped because it logically doesn't make sense for them to not exsist openly when there is nothing holding them back.

Also, instead of calling LIs "player sexual" why wouldn't they just be considered "pan sexual"? Someone from the LGBT community will have to help me out here on this because I'm probably guessing this wrong, but wouldn't that term cover all bases? An equal number of pan sexual male and female LIs would cover gay men, lesbian females, straight people, and the trans community, wouldn't it?

[DaringMoosejaw]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

that's because it is about racism and misogyny. If you can't understand that a marginalized  group needs a safe place or a set of resources only for themselves, then you are part of the problem.

It's like asking why gay people need a gay pride parade, or why black people need black history month when straight people or white people "don't have either" either because they are too ignorant to notice they are already heavily catered to EVERYDAY, or simple don't care. 

That's call privilage.

I'm of the opinion that ALLOWING folks to segregate themselves is fine, so long as you do not use force of law to force them to be segregated or force them to be desegregated. People will always be tribalistic jerkholes who prefer hanging around people like them more often than not, and forcing people together who do not want to be together is a terrible idea. Let people have their straight pride parades and their white history months - my guess is that extremely few people will attend/care, and nothing will be lost.

BTW, DA2 did not force you to flirt with anyone. That "forced to flirt with Anders" diatrabe is complete BS when you take into account that if you take the dialouge tree does have an option for you to avoid the "flirt issue" without taking rivalry points at all.

Unless you are speaking of times when, as a gay M!Hawke, the player is undesirably approached by females - in which case, carry on.

You apparently misunderstood what I wrote. I said forced to flirt OR, KEY WORD, OR, be an ****. You were not forced to flirt, but if you didn't flirt, the followup response was dickish. And my reasoning here why I preferred things the way I explained them could easily work for a gay character as well. Make it so flirting does not happen at all unless the player says a line to initiate it and make it entirely seperate from friendly/sarcastic/mean responses. Just as it makes it awkward for a straight male character to turn down Anders, it would be just as awkward for a gay male character to turn down Merrill.

[Friera]

People have so many feelings.

[lady_v23]

Lmao. This is till open!? Well" at least people are sort of on topic...

Unlike last night. ...

[vertigomez]

Where's the "thread seems to have run its course" guy?

Methinks he is long overdue for an appearance.

Modifié par mutant_anemone, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:08 .

[ObserverStatus]

Trista Hawke wrote...
Zomg this thread is still here.

Did you do anything fun while you were out? More fun than fighting against internet oppression and bigotry I mean.

Modifié par bobobo878, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:14 .

[sandalisthemaker]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I went to sleep and this thread was SEVEN PAGES WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.

It was pretty wild.
The battle culminated with a ceasfire, with both sides wishing eachother well before departing.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:23 .

[Silfren]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Wheel_of_Fate wrote...

That is actually quite an interesting remark. 

Unfortunately it will be dismissed entirely as white privileged cisgender misogynist racism.

To say something on-topic, though, opinion hasn't changed: Just make everyone playersexual, although characterization is important in my mind it isn't SO important I agree with locking so much content from someone based on their gender decisions.

If I have one complaint, it's that DA2 sometimes forced you to flirt with someone OR be an ****, with no option of just being friendly. It'd be nice if there was a Flirt option, wholly seperate from the other options, at some point in the game that YOU had to pick or the other character wouldn't even mention romance.

that's because it is about racism and misogyny. If you can't understand that a marginalized  group needs a safe place or a set of resources only for themselves, then you are part of the problem.

It's like asking why gay people need a gay pride parade, or why black people need black history month when straight people or white people "don't have either" either because they are too ignorant to notice they are already heavily catered to EVERYDAY, or simple don't care. 

That's call privilage.

BTW, DA2 did not force you to flirt with anyone. That "forced to flirt with Anders" diatrabe is complete BS when you take into account that if you take the dialouge tree does have an option for you to avoid the "flirt issue" without taking rivalry points at all.

Unless you are speaking of times when, as a gay M!Hawke, the player is undesirably approached by females - in which case, carry on.

Considering there isn't really a stigma against LGBT community in the DA-verse compared to real life, I'm actually surprised they don't have more visibility in the game. Well, maybe not "surprised", and more stumped because it logically doesn't make sense for them to not exsist openly when there is nothing holding them back.

Also, instead of calling LIs "player sexual" why wouldn't they just be considered "pan sexual"? Someone from the LGBT community will have to help me out here on this because I'm probably guessing this wrong, but wouldn't that term cover all bases? An equal number of pan sexual male and female LIs would cover gay men, lesbian females, straight people, and the trans community, wouldn't it?

Oh, someone beat me to it.  I'm afraid that the point is simply going to zoom over the relevant heads, however.  People who actually think "reversed isms" are a thing just show that they really are too blind to their own privilege to get it.

[Hellion Rex]

@sandalisthemaker: I thought we killed this thread off last night? Who in their right mind would resurrect this thing? I thought it would be locked down by a mod by this morning.

[Massa FX]

I'm hoping for hot male romanceable characters that are taller than my female toon... I prefer human ... but those Qunari... ahem... Well what red blooded woman wouldn't be curious?

Bring it Bioware! Please!

[Eragon-]

eluvianix wrote...

@sandalisthemaker: I thought we killed this thread off last night? Who in their right mind would resurrect this thing? I thought it would be locked down by a mod by this morning.

Well, those who were arguing are gone. So, it is essentialy dead unless, someone wants to bring back the poor horse 

[Chari]

I feel sorry to both Bioware and characters... nobody ever asks poor chars if they're interested in our characters at all
Like, maybe sb is not into girls/boys. Or maybe a char is asexual. Or simply doesn't like the player. But nooo, let's make them all playersexual
**** realism and all attempts to make the world and characters complex and free of mindless fanservice

[Hellion Rex]

Eragon- wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

@sandalisthemaker: I thought we killed this thread off last night? Who in their right mind would resurrect this thing? I thought it would be locked down by a mod by this morning.

Well, those who were arguing are gone. So, it is essentialy dead unless, someone wants to bring back the poor horse 

Yeah, Lord knows that dead horse has been beaten to death...

As a side note, anyone notice how late that mod came to the party?

[Blackrising]

Damn, I'm gone for a day and this thread explodes.

...is it wrong that I look forward to making myself some tea and settle down to read 40+ pages of people beating a decaying horse corpse?

[Andraste_Reborn]

I feel sorry to both Bioware and characters... nobody ever asks poor chars if they're interested in our characters at all
Like, maybe sb is not into girls/boys. Or maybe a char is asexual. Or simply doesn't like the player. But nooo, let's make them all playersexual

Er. Much as I love the DA companions, they are not real people. They do not have actual feelings and sexual orientations.

Also, there already are companions in both games who aren't into the PC. Sebastian only likes women, and Aveline and Varric aren't into Hawke at all. I expect the situation in DAI will be similar - we know we're getting nine companions, so if there are four romances again that means they'll be five who aren't romanceable. (The situation only looks skewed in DA2 because two of the potential companions are your siblings and obviously off-limits.)

[slimgrin]

EntropicAngel wrote...


Power.


You know, I was thinking about racism and sexism today. Or, so-called racism and sexism. I was thinking about college organizations like the "Women's Society of Engineers" or the "Black Student Union."

Now what does this tell us? This tells us that these groups, who scream about segregation and integration, are not afraid, and indeed welcome segregating themselves from others.

So this made me wonder: if these people actually do not dislike segregation, and indeed prefer it enough to create their own organizations, then why do they argue against it? I came to the conclusion of power. They want to be in a position of power themselves--in reality they are perpetrating the same segregation that they fought against for so many years. The only difference is that they're on...the other side of the glass, as it were. They have the power (at least in their mind).

Power, my friend.

I rarely agree with Entropic but this is spot on.

OT: this is the never ending debate of fanservice vs creative intent, but at this point, at least for Bioware the two have effectively merged.

[Silfren]

slimgrin wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...


Power.


You
know, I was thinking about racism and sexism today. Or, so-called racism and sexism. I was thinking about college organizations like the "Women's Society of Engineers" or the "Black Student Union."

Now what does this tell us? This tells us that these groups, who scream about segregation and integration, are not afraid, and indeed welcome segregating themselves from others.

So this made me wonder: if these people actually do not dislike segregation, and indeed prefer it enough to create their own organizations, then why do they argue against it? I came to the conclusion of power. They want to be in a position of power themselves--in reality they are perpetrating the same segregation that they fought against for so many years. The only difference is that they're on...the other side of the glass, as it were. They have the
power (at least in their mind).

Power, my friend.

I rarely agree with Entropic but this is spot on.

OT: this is the never ending debate of fanservice vs creative intent, but at this point, at least for Bioware the two have effectively merged.

No it's not even remotely spot on.  Not even a little, tiny bit.  Organizations like the Women's Society of Engineers exist because women have not exactly been welcomed with open arms into other engineer organizations. They exist to give women a safe place where they will not be ridiculed or bullied or harrassed or driven out due to the rampant
misogyny.

I probably shouldn't bring this up, but I'm going to anyway, the hell with it.  Anyone remember Jennifer Hepler?  The way she was ultimately driven out because as$hole men thought it was perfectly acceptable to threaten her? THAT phenomenon is why organizations like the Womens' Society of Engineers exist. 

I already know who is going to understand this and who isn't going to have a bloody clue.

Modifié par Silfren, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:28 .

[Rawgrim]

Silfren wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...


Power.


You
know, I was thinking about racism and sexism today. Or, so-called
racism and sexism. I was thinking about college organizations like the
"Women's Society of Engineers" or the "Black Student Union."

Now
what does this tell us? This tells us that these groups, who scream
about segregation and integration, are not afraid, and indeed welcome
segregating themselves from others.

So this made me wonder: if
these people actually do not dislike segregation, and indeed prefer it
enough to create their own organizations, then why do they argue against
it? I came to the conclusion of power. They want to be in a position of
power themselves--in reality they are perpetrating the same segregation
that they fought against for so many years. The only difference is that
they're on...the other side of the glass, as it were. They have the
power (at least in their mind).

Power, my friend.

I rarely agree with Entropic but this is spot on.

OT:
this is the never ending debate of fanservice vs creative intent, but
at this point, at least for Bioware the two have effectively merged.

No
it's not even remotely spot on.  Not even a little, tiny bit. 
Organizations like the Women's Society of Engineers exist because women
have not exactly been welcomed with open arms into other engineer
organizations. They exist to give women a safe place where they will not
be ridiculed or bullied or harrassed or driven out due to the rampant
misogyny.

I probably shouldn't bring this up, but I'm going to
anyway, the hell with it.  Anyone remember Jennifer Hepler?  The way she
was ultimately driven out because as$hole men thought it was perfectly
acceptable to threaten her? THAT phenomenon is why organizations like
the Womens' Society of Engineers exist. 

I already know who is going to understand this and who isn't going to have a bloody clue.

I think Hepler left for family reasons, not because of threats. I doubt anyone working for Bioware takes threats made by morons seriously.

[fiveforchaos]

9TailsFox wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Yes. What I would like to see more though, is an explanation as to why all the male elf romances have to be so feminine looking?

Well dragon age pander to female gamers. They have Alistair and Zevran. In DA2 Anders and Fenris. Well i don't like fenris but female go crazy for him. And we male get Leliana crazy, Isabela who sleep half of Thedas, and kid Merrill.. Well at least we get Morrigan.

I always thought you guys got the better end of the deal. In DA:II at least, I think DA:O had a pretty good spread all around.

Isabella and Merrill are actually characters in their own right, rather than blind causes, you might not like their characters, but they are characters. Women go crazy over Fenris because he was grown specially in a lab to appeal to our baser instincts,his voice alone makes most upper level thought processes shut down whenever he's speaking. His character overall however... actually nevermind, his character isn't really that terrible come to think of it, he's got an interesting backstory, and he does develop beyond "grrr I hate Mages and Slavers" later in the game, it's just that his character development was kind of put on the back burner to make him a better foil for Anders, so you only really see that development in companion dialogue, and some late game conversations. 

Anders on the other hand, developed some rather obsessive tunnel vision, he became his cause, and not a whole lot more, it made for some pretty creepy romance dialogue.