1220 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Is it so hard to look up old threads instead of arguing about the same thing very week? At this point, it seems like people want to argue for the sake of arguing instead of actually discussing anything.

And you're being unfairly dismissive to what seems like legitimate discussion (not all of it, certainly, but at least some of it).

There's merit to both equal choice and accurate representation, and I'm not sure why you have a problem with attempting to figure out if there's any middle ground between the two and feel the need to be disrespectful of honest opinions.

[d4eaming]

tiktac wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Boombox wrote...

To be honest as a gay guy 'playersexual' is borderline insulting to me.. But at the end of the day we all have our opinions on this and it's up to Bioware how they choose to impliment it in their game. Either way we will all play it.

Well, I'm queer and trans and I don't find it insulting. Needless to say, my preference (playersexual) gives everyone a fair chance to sculpt what they want, while restrictions is going to leave someone left out. Each of my plays is totally self-contained. My female Hawke I am playing now romanced Fenris on friendship path. She has no idea that my rogue Hawke was a male who romanced him on the rival path. I don't sit back and think "gee, he likes men too, that's just so weird and unrealistic!" He never expresses a preference, and on my unfinished plays, he's not romanced and I have characters with Anders instead.

I really, really don't understand this whole argument.

most of the time i see people making the argument that playersexuality in games is insulting, theyre straight people, so i take that argument with a grain of salt. not assuming boombox is but thats usually where i see it come in.

He did specify that he was a gay male.

Other than that point, I agree, it seems more often it's straight folks complaining about realism and "oh god don't let them hit on me", while it's more often GLBT individuals want the playersexual option so they can have inclusivity too.

When that's not the case, I'm pretty well taken aback when someone on the spectrum does want restrictions, but what can you say, people are weird. (All of us, including me.)

[Silfren]

General TSAR wrote...

TrueMyst wrote...

I get the feeling many people play Bioware's games as a love simulator more than anything. Weird...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

And you're both wrong.  The only reason anyone makes this argument is to attempt to shut people up by shaming them.

[werewoof]

d4eaming wrote...

tiktac wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Boombox wrote...

To be honest as a gay guy 'playersexual' is borderline insulting to me.. But at the end of the day we all have our opinions on this and it's up to Bioware how they choose to impliment it in their game. Either way we will all play it.

Well, I'm queer and trans and I don't find it insulting. Needless to say, my preference (playersexual) gives everyone a fair chance to sculpt what they want, while restrictions is going to leave someone left out. Each of my plays is totally self-contained. My female Hawke I am playing now romanced Fenris on friendship path. She has no idea that my rogue Hawke was a male who romanced him on the rival path. I don't sit back and think "gee, he likes men too, that's just so weird and unrealistic!" He never expresses a preference, and on my unfinished plays, he's not romanced and I have characters with Anders instead.

I really, really don't understand this whole argument.

most of the time i see people making the argument that playersexuality in games is insulting, theyre straight people, so i take that argument with a grain of salt. not assuming boombox is but thats usually where i see it come in.

He did specify that he was a gay male.

Other than that point, I agree, it seems more often it's straight folks complaining about realism and "oh god don't let them hit on me", while it's more often GLBT individuals want the playersexual option so they can have inclusivity too.

When that's not the case, I'm pretty well taken aback when someone on the spectrum does want restrictions, but what can you say, people are weird. (All of us, including me.)

whoops misread his post a bit, sorry about that  

but yeah as a queer player myself, i'm more interested in the playersexual thing because a) sexuality is a fluid thing and can't always be put into a category and it's a good way to gave equal options without expending too much money on a relatively smaller feature of the game 

[werewoof]

greengoron89 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

When exactly did being entitled to representation in video games become a thing? Why are there never outcries for racial representation? I'm offended by the lack of pacific islander culture.

...There have been plenty of threads asking for Bioware to make Dragon Age more ethnically diverse.  You're not reading about it in this thread for the obvious reason that it's not the subject.

If by ethnically "diverse" you mean just "black" and "white" people, then yes.

Because those are the only "races" that exist, amirite?

i've seen plenty of calls for all kinds of poc inclusivity 

not sure what your point is 

[Inquisitor Recon]

tiktac wrote...
is there something wrong with the progression of media? people didnt complain about this as much before so they shouldnt complain about it now? there totally is an outcry for racial representation, i dunno how you missed that hot mess. does that dumb argument work for everything? 

Oddly enough some people actually care about gameplay and story before this nonsense about "progression". That should be the concern and not meeting some quota of race or gender or sexuality so a bunch of people can pat themselves on the back about how "foward-thinking" they are. In fact all of this is completely irrelevant to creating a good game.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Silfren wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

When exactly did being entitled to representation in video games become a thing? Why are there never outcries for racial representation? I'm offended by the lack of pacific islander culture.

...There have been plenty of threads asking for Bioware to make Dragon Age more ethnically diverse.  You're not reading about it in this thread for the obvious reason that it's not the subject.

And on a historical note, I'd date this kind of discussion back a good 20 years. Wing Commander is the first game where I remember seeing things along this line.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:22 .

[AresKeith]

Either an equal number of LIs (2 str8, 2 bi, 2 gay non-companions count too) where they show that they have a preference or no LIs at all

I'd be find with either one

[Inquisitor Recon]

Seraph Cross wrote...
That's a fair and equal ratio

Why not? Otherwise there is always going to be somebody complaining about some imagined imbalance or bias that only exists in their head.

[Ryzaki]

Oh maker forbid people have to share the same LIs. Oh noes.

Also while BW's removing the romances can they also remove all supermodelish characters? As well as characters wearing skimpy/flattering clothing? Let's have it be completely sexless, romance less for EVERYONE. Oh yeah and have everyone voiced by a robot. Can't be giving into those audio fetishist or VA fanboys! Also getting a female LI preggers and having her child play a role in the plot? nope. Get rid of OGB and Morrigan. Alistair and Loghain too.

Put all the resources for that crap into MP. Clearly.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:24 .

[devSin]

d4eaming wrote...

I concede that maybe I'm the weird one, since I don't care for physical affection, but I seriously don't consider, say, my gay boss as having characteristics more important to him being gay than anything else about him.

I don't think it's about simply attempting to make gender or sexuality the cornerstone of a character's personality, but it should influence the types of interactions you have.

It's a good thing to have affirmations and expressions of your gender and orientation in the romance content, no? This is something that is harder to do with so-called playersexual characters, since the emphasis for a lot of the content is equal applicability (it has to apply to both males and females).

I think the tradeoff is worth it, but I can definitely understand why some people who otherwise support inclusion would disagree. (I'm also not convinced that exclusivity would necessarily lead to characters that are all that more reactive toward the gender and sexuality of the PC, so I'm not sure anything would really be gained if we were to return to the old method.)

Modifié par devSin, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:32 .

[Silfren]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Is it so hard to look up old threads instead of arguing about the same thing very week? At this point, it seems like people want to argue for the sake of arguing instead of actually discussing anything.

You are under no obligation to participate in this thread if you don't like the subject matter, but I'll go ahead and say that at least part of the problem is that when people try to have legitimate, constructive discussions about what they want as far as the romance options go, jack asses come into the thread and derail it with their insults about how people who care about the romances are just using DA as a dating sim, they're ruining the entire game for real gamers, etc.  And then there's that special privileged crowd who doesn't have to worry about being represented because they always are, who feel the need to come into these threads and do their best to shout down everyone who hasn't been catered to by the industry since the dawn of gaming began, because, you know, don't NOBODY do entitlement better than the already entitled.

[canarius]

In Mass Effect 3, more than 80% of players played a male Shepard. Just saying...

[d4eaming]

tiktac wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

He did specify that he was a gay male.

Other than that point, I agree, it seems more often it's straight folks complaining about realism and "oh god don't let them hit on me", while it's more often GLBT individuals want the playersexual option so they can have inclusivity too.

When that's not the case, I'm pretty well taken aback when someone on the spectrum does want restrictions, but what can you say, people are weird. (All of us, including me.)

whoops misread his post a bit, sorry about that  

but yeah as a queer player myself, i'm more interested in the playersexual thing because a) sexuality is a fluid thing and can't always be put into a category and it's a good way to gave equal options without expending too much money on a relatively smaller feature of the game 

I consider myself fluid, as I don't really identify strongly with male or female, or I identify with both at different levels, or more of one sometimes and more of the other at other times and... you get the point. There is no way to satisfy someone who slides up and down the gender spectrum (or even identifies outside of it). It's just simply way too diverse. I would much rather have the LIs fluid enough that they can be different things in different playthroughs, than end up with no LIs at all because of arbitrary restrictions for ~realism~.

[werewoof]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

tiktac wrote...
is there something wrong with the progression of media? people didnt complain about this as much before so they shouldnt complain about it now? there totally is an outcry for racial representation, i dunno how you missed that hot mess. does that dumb argument work for everything? 

Oddly enough some people actually care about gameplay and story before this nonsense about "progression". That should be the concern and not meeting some quota of race or gender or sexuality so a bunch of people can pat themselves on the back about how "foward-thinking" they are. In fact all of this is completely irrelevant to creating a good game.

except you know, it is. 

but hey, every marginalized person out there sick of feeling like your race/gender/sexuality is invalid because you get sidelined for white straight people in everything ever, social network user inquisitor recon says that it's irrelevant to creating a good game so your troubles are over and your problems are moot.

if it was irrelevant to creating a good game and thus didnt matter to you, then why are you digging your feet in when people ask for more representation? it sure makes it sound like you care.

[Wheel_of_Fate]

Oh. This topic again. I say, f*ck all of the 'ethnic diversity'. If it's not relevant for the game, leave it out. If you really need to see a black/gay/whatever guy/gal/that thing in between in a game to feel appreciated in life, then there's a problem with you, not with the game.

[d4eaming]

canarius wrote...

In Mass Effect 3, more than 80% of players played a male Shepard. Just saying...

Yep, and my male Shepard was queer. Too bad BW only gave us little more than lip service (until Citadel, had quite a lot of fun there).

Still doesn't excuse taking away options from everyone else.

Little question. Are you a straight male? Because if you are, you got a ****load of options that the rest of us didn't. I'm sure that wouldn't bother you, however.

[Silfren]

greengoron89 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

When exactly did being entitled to representation in video games become a thing? Why are there never outcries for racial representation? I'm offended by the lack of pacific islander culture.

...There have been plenty of threads asking for Bioware to make Dragon Age more ethnically diverse.  You're not reading about it in this thread for the obvious reason that it's not the subject.

If by ethnically "diverse" you mean just "black" and "white" people, then yes.

Because those are the only "races" that exist, amirite?

Make whatever snide comment you're trying to and move on, buddy.  I said ethnically diverse because that's what I meant. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

AresKeith wrote...
Either an equal number of LIs (2 str8, 2 bi, 2 gay non-companions count too) where they show that they have a preference or no LIs at all
I'd be find with either one

I'm still waiting on how it is wrong from a moral or business standpoint to have more straight LIs when that represents both the market and human population. Where exactly is the crime or injustice in this?

Silfren wrote...
Make whatever snide comment you're trying to and move on, buddy.  I said ethnically diverse because that's what I meant. 

Ah, so you meant it as some meaningless buzzword like most people who go on about ethnic diversity do.

Modifié par Inquisitor Recon, 08 septembre 2013 - 01:33 .

[d4eaming]

Love how in society, being a minority wanting equal representation makes you the bad guy.

I won't argue that being white gives me priviledges. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't expect more inclusion of other minorities, or that BW isn't allowed to make progression a part of their company goal.

Because BW has made it pretty loud and clear that they believe in including minorities in their games. Sad that all the priviledged folk have such a problem with that.