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[In Exile]

Forst1999 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
There was one good Templar in DA2. And every mage was an abomination.

Things got progressively more horrible because the only people who weren't terrible were a mix between idiots that attacked Hawke for stupid reasons and secret abominations.

Good templars: Thrask tried to get everyone out alive, Emeric shows no weird tendendies, Keran seems alright, Wesley was strict, but not unreasonable and Cullen came around in the very end (more evident during the templar ending).
Mages that don't become abominations, power-hungry jerks or mass murderers: Bethany, Alain, Ella, Feynriel, Emile de Launcet, Terrie, Solivitus, Tobrius and Merrill.
We have good people on either side, but the crazy ones have a habit of playing a bigger role, because they cause the problems you have to solve.

Cullen was pro tranquil solution. His objecting to Meredith's massacre... eventually doesn't not make him less coo-coo for cocopuffs.

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

So the recrute you save from the blood mages and the templars that sided with the mages don't count as good templars?

When they resort to kidnapping and attempted murder on people who've been helping them all along, not so much.

The recuit did not know who was kidnapped and the rest though Hawke was working with Mereidith because Meredith force Hawke to hunt mages.

[Vit246]

snootz wrote...
Well Bethany says (if she is in the Circle) she finds most of the templars quite polite and that they weren't so bad..

Honestly I think the writers were being slightly deceptive with Bethany. Apparently she was perfectly fine with just being thrown into the Harrowing. And there's no way she did not notice the existing explicit abuses in the Kirkwall Circle after all her time being literally there. Thats just what I think.

Modifié par Vit246, 07 septembre 2013 - 05:37 .

[leaguer of one]

In Exile wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
There was one good Templar in DA2. And every mage was an abomination.

Things got progressively more horrible because the only people who weren't terrible were a mix between idiots that attacked Hawke for stupid reasons and secret abominations.

Good templars: Thrask tried to get everyone out alive, Emeric shows no weird tendendies, Keran seems alright, Wesley was strict, but not unreasonable and Cullen came around in the very end (more evident during the templar ending).
Mages that don't become abominations, power-hungry jerks or mass murderers: Bethany, Alain, Ella, Feynriel, Emile de Launcet, Terrie, Solivitus, Tobrius and Merrill.
We have good people on either side, but the crazy ones have a habit of playing a bigger role, because they cause the problems you have to solve.

Cullen was pro tranquil solution. His objecting to Meredith's massacre... eventually doesn't not make him less coo-coo for cocopuffs.

Funny how that turned out being that it's reversible now.

[Maria Caliban]

PeterBazooka wrote...

Vivienne seems like a step in the right direction of having a mage who's not bat**** crazy.

Not empty quoting.

[leaguer of one]

Vit246 wrote...

snootz wrote...
Well Bethany says (if she is in the Circle) she finds most of the templars quite polite and that they weren't so bad..

Honestly I think the writers were being slightly deceptive with Bethany. Apparently she was perfectly fine with just being thrown into the Harrowing. And there's no way she did not notice the existing explicit abuses in the Kirkwall Circle after all her time there. Thats just what I think.

Of course she noticed. It's just the she point out all templars are not like the crazy ones.

[Taleroth]

leaguer of one wrote...

The recuit did not know who was kidnapped and the rest though Hawke was working with Mereidith because Meredith force Hawke to hunt mages.

Like I said, they're idiots.

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The recuit did not know who was kidnapped and the rest though Hawke was working with Mereidith because Meredith force Hawke to hunt mages.

Like I said, they're idiots.

Funny how fear and paranioa does that....Which was the point of the story and cause of the mage templar war.

[Taleroth]

leaguer of one wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The recuit did not know who was kidnapped and the rest though Hawke was working with Mereidith because Meredith force Hawke to hunt mages.

Like I said, they're idiots.

Funny how fear and paranioa does that....Which was the point of the story and cause of the mage templar war.

Fear and paranoia are not symapthetic or good qualities.

So we've established that it was a bunch of unsympathetic idiots in Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Taleroth, 07 septembre 2013 - 05:41 .

[GDog89]

I would love a Zaeed Massani like mage " Enough Talk lets go be God ***** Heroes "

[leaguer of one]

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

The recuit did not know who was kidnapped and the rest though Hawke was working with Mereidith because Meredith force Hawke to hunt mages.

Like I said, they're idiots.

Funny how fear and paranioa does that....Which was the point of the story and cause of the mage templar war.

Fear and paranoia are not symapthetic or good qualities.

So we've established that it was a bunch of unsympathetic idiots in Dragon Age 2.

It was never there to be an object of sympathy. More like a moral to not to be like that. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

DA2's pro-templar arguments were bad, becasue it focused on the danger crazy mages represent, when it sdhould be the danger normal mages represents.

More Connors, less Decimuses

[Dave of Canada]

GDog89 wrote...

I would love a Zaeed Massani like mage " Enough Talk lets go be God ***** Heroes "

And then he turns into an abomination and kills everyone.

[Lotion Soronarr]

In Exile wrote...

Cullen was pro tranquil solution. His objecting to Meredith's massacre... eventually doesn't not make him less coo-coo for cocopuffs.

Sauce?

[leaguer of one]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Cullen was pro tranquil solution. His objecting to Meredith's massacre... eventually doesn't not make him less coo-coo for cocopuffs.

Sauce?

Talk to Cullen after doing Ander's mission in act 2.

[leaguer of one]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GDog89 wrote...

I would love a Zaeed Massani like mage " Enough Talk lets go be God ***** Heroes "

And then he turns into an abomination and kills everyone.

Not if he is from the fereldin Circle.

[Dave of Canada]

leaguer of one wrote...

Not if he is from the fereldin Circle.

Then he'll just turn into an abomination because blood magic.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 septembre 2013 - 05:53 .

[Forst1999]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Cullen was pro tranquil solution. His objecting to Meredith's massacre... eventually doesn't not make him less coo-coo for cocopuffs.

Sauce?

I just looked it up. Saying Cullen was pro tranquil solution is a bit much, but he certainly wasn't critical either. But I just said he came around in the end, so his extreme views along the way don't matter much. During the end, he recognized that a templars job is to procect the mages from the world just as much as protecting the world from the mages. He had a long journey, but in the end, he came out alright.

[cactusberry]

My mage sided with the Templars due to how crazy all of the mages were.

[leaguer of one]

TheDarkRats wrote...

My mage sided with the Templars due to how crazy all of the mages were.

I side with the templars because it did not want my companions to become out laws because of me.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

GDog89 wrote...

I would love a Zaeed Massani like mage " Enough Talk lets go be God ***** Heroes "

This suits a Dwarf Warrior much better.

[GDog89]

Cullen was just Fearful of Magic considering what happened in Origins then the DA2 Rebellion brewing I consider most of his taught were a bit in question. He personally thinks that Mages are capable of being decent people he just has a hard time trusting them due to the horrors he experienced.

[leaguer of one]

GDog89 wrote...

Cullen was just Fearful of Magic considering what happened in Origins then the DA2 Rebellion brewing I consider most of his taught were a bit in question. He personally thinks that Mages are capable of being decent people he just has a hard time trusting them due to the horrors he experienced.

It hit more home if you side with the templars and if you saved the circle in DA:O.
He point out what going on in this circle annulment is nothing compared to how messed up things going in Fereldin's circle uprising.

[In Exile]

Forst1999 wrote...
I just looked it up. Saying Cullen was pro tranquil solution is a bit much, but he certainly wasn't critical either. But I just said he came around in the end, so his extreme views along the way don't matter much. During the end, he recognized that a templars job is to procect the mages from the world just as much as protecting the world from the mages. He had a long journey, but in the end, he came out alright.

It's not overstating it. He speaks about tranquility as being a good thing, and a way to control mages now that everything else has failed. 

[Statare]

snootz wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Not just the Mages my good man. The Templars were bat s**t crazy too. They abused their power and the Mages under their so called protection. They would rape them and take advantage of the tranquils submissive nature >...Overall both sides suck ass! I don't want to have to pick a side in Inquisition, they can both burn for all I care >

 

Well Bethany says (if she is in the Circle) she finds most of the templars quite polite and that they weren't so bad..

I thought the Templars didn't seem so crazy in comparison.. only one was truly evil/mad.. that guy who wanted to make all mage tranquil and rape them.. 

Meridith was on the extreme side but the idols influence clearly had a big affect there..

I cant think of any other "bad" ones of the top of my head.. even Cullen saves the innocent mages after the annulement/fight with Meridith

I agree. Mages seemed more crazy than the templars in DAII. Especially because we have two pro-mage companions and no real pro-templar characrers besides borring old Sebastian. Merrill has unconventional ideas and in many ways makes a lot of mistakes. Anders becomes a little delusional and it's easier from Hawkes perspective to see Anders as having done something disproportionate to the actions of the Templars/Chantry because of the way the templars/chantry are presented in the story. 

I think another issue is that the idea is that the mages are desperate, but only once do we really see their desperation (the girl about to be raped by Ser Alrik) as Hawke is so seperated from the circle. It was easier to be sympathetic to mages in DA:O if you had played through the mage origin because you see the circumstances that make a mage desperate/idealistic (they are prisoners with no hope of living their own life). Unfortunately in DAII you only see the desperation and not the cause of it where as in the desperate/cruel actions of mages you see the cause of Templar ideology.

So in DAII you have mages constantly reinforcing the arguments of the Templars, but you rarely see the Templars doing what may have caused the mages to be desperate in the first place. The only exception is Ser Alrik and Meredith is hard to deal with because sometimes she is reasonable, sometimes she isn't, and then before you know it she has lost her mind but all that is lost because the mages are also going crazy.

Edit: Also, when all esle fails you bring in a Tevinter mage and they are ALL crazy. I felt really bad that the good option with Feynriel is to send him to Tevinter.... where he most likely will encounter lots of those people. It's hard to argue that mages deserve to be free when the only place in Thedas where that is the case every mage is a psychotic socio-path who wants to enslave the world....

Modifié par Statare, 07 septembre 2013 - 06:21 .