243 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

By all means, go spend all the time you want on the fan fiction forum. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear about your alternate universe. But please, let's not confuse fantasy and fact.

The irony in this post is so strong I can taste it

[David7204]

I don't have to imply it. It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. Liara has no combat experience or training. Yet she becomes good at combat. The simple answer is that she received training. That's just basic reasoning.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. 

The simple answer is what you just stated - headcannon.  

[David7204]

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Not really, no. After all, Liara is skilled at more than just biotics. Besides, even if Shepard isn't a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are. And both of them certainly seem willing to help.

Wrex was busy unifying the Krogan Clans if he isn't dead, Kaidan can also be dead, and Shepard was dead for two years. The Normandy gets blown up a month after the Battle of the Citadel according the the timeline, when exactly during all of this is any member of the crew training Liara, or is a month sufficent training?

I'm thinking the events of the first game take around four or five months, with Shepard training Liara during that time.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Your little delusions are falling apart, Massively. Commander Shepard in the series Mass Effect clearly is on good terms and willing to help Liara. That is plain and simple fact beyond debate. And you spend all the time you want repeating to yourself what 'Your Shepard' does. It won't make it true. 'Your Shepard' is nothing more than a fantasy.

My delusions? What are you talking about? I thought I could avoid doing any of the things except the ones where player agency is compromised. I certainly don't dive for Liara. I don't even do LotSB. I don't hug Liara. That's a fact. Melding with her wasn't an issue of trust and friendship. She was the only Asari around and I had a job to due. Otherwise, I could be a total jackass to her if I so chose, and then BW decided to change that because they want everyone to appreciate the blueberry. That's not too hard to understand.

Calling me out personally and deriving all of my arguments as ridiculous doesn't do wonders for your argument. What is your argument anyway?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I don't have to imply it. It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. Liara has no combat experience or training. Yet she becomes good at combat. The simple answer is that she received training. That's just basic reasoning.

I don't know what you mean.  She was uselss IMO, never took her unless I had to.  No health, powers were 'meh', and her weapons left much to be desired

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Not really, no. After all, Liara is skilled at more than just biotics. Besides, even if Shepard isn't a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are. And both of them certainly seem willing to help.

Wrex was busy unifying the Krogan Clans if he isn't dead, Kaidan can also be dead, and Shepard was dead for two years. The Normandy gets blown up a month after the Battle of the Citadel according the the timeline, when exactly during all of this is any member of the crew training Liara, or is a month sufficent training?

I'm thinking the events of the first game take around four or five months, with Shepard training Liara during that time.

That's headcanon then. And I've already described how and why Shepard wouldn't be wasting his time training her.

[David7204]

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. 

The simple answer is what you just stated - headcannon.  

Uh, no. It's not 'headcannon.' It's deductive reasoning that simply happens to concern a problem within fiction instead of a problem in real life. The fact that this is fiction is entirely irrelavent at the moment. Do you have an alternative solution for how Liara became a skilled warrior? By all means, let me hear it.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:38 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Not really, no. After all, Liara is skilled at more than just biotics. Besides, even if Shepard isn't a biotic, Wrex and Kaidan are. And both of them certainly seem willing to help.

Wrex was busy unifying the Krogan Clans if he isn't dead, Kaidan can also be dead, and Shepard was dead for two years. The Normandy gets blown up a month after the Battle of the Citadel according the the timeline, when exactly during all of this is any member of the crew training Liara, or is a month sufficent training?

I'm thinking the events of the first game take around four or five months, with Shepard training Liara during that time.

During which Wrex can be dead/not recruited, Kaidan can also die.

And in most playthroughs both of these characters are dead

[GreyLycanTrope]

That again is relying heavily on Shep being a biotic, and head canon. The only thing that comes close to training is Pinnacle Station, but there's no canon mention of the character being there.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. 

The simple answer is what you just stated - headcannon.  

Uh, no. It's not 'headcannon.' It's deductive reasoning that simply happens to concern a problem within fiction instead of a problem in real life. The fact that this is fiction is entirely irrelavent at the moment. Do you have an alternative solution for how Liara became a skilled warrior? By all means, let me hear it.

If that was the case Liara herself would have mentioned this in the game

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. 

The simple answer is what you just stated - headcannon.  

Uh, no. It's not 'headcannon.' It's deductive reasoning that simply happens to concern a problem within fiction instead of a problem in real life. The fact that this is fiction is entirely irrelavent at the moment. Do you have an alternative solution for how Liara became a skilled warrior? By all means, let me hear it.

It's headcanon. To say therwise is a double standard on your end and just kills your entire rebuttal against me.

Besides, I've described a plausible and obvious counter to your answer.

I have an alternative solution alright:

Writer favoritism and overall inconsistent writing.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. 

The simple answer is what you just stated - headcannon.  

Uh, no. It's not 'headcannon.' It's deductive reasoning that simply happens to concern a problem within fiction instead of a problem in real life. The fact that this is fiction is entirely irrelavent at the moment. Do you have an alternative solution for how Liara became a skilled warrior? 

One, she isn't a skilled warrior.  Two, I'll use your reasoning and say that a Pyjak from that planet where the orb was dropped, taught her how to use her Biotics more efficiently because of my deductive reasoning, right?  3, Headcannon. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

By all means, go spend all the time you want on the fan fiction forum. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear about your alternate universe. But please, let's not confuse fantasy and fact.

The irony in this post is so strong I can taste it

Isn't he just the best?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

and then BW decided to change that because they want everyone to appreciate the blueberry.

I think it's because Drew took a backseat at that point. He wrote her in 1. She's only different because of writers. Like everything else in the series (sometimes it's for the better though).

I know that, but it really doesn't change the fact that she becomes prominent and clearly gets a lot more attention than most other characters - with a lot of it being rather gushing and mary-sueish. 

I'd wager SuperMac treats her the way Stephanie Meyer treats Robert Pattinson.

[Barquiel]

Liara traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

[David7204]

If anyone has an actual explanation other than the one I proposed for how Liara became a skilled warrior instead of this petty and trivial nonsense, let me hear me it.

I can assure everyone here deductive reasoning is not 'headcanon.'

[KaiserShep]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That depends on what you mean by 'need.' We certainly don't 'need' an explanation for the story to be good. It's not as if Mass Effect is badly written because it's not 'explained' why Liara is a good biotic, as Ventus implied. That's very silly.

It makes no sense why Liara is good when she's a civilian with no training, yet we're just supposed to accept that she's just awesome like that. That's non-sensical.

It's explained that biotic training is regular education among the Asari, given that each and every one of them is born with the ability. It isn't something that's necessarily exclusive to the military, so it's not farfetched at all that civilians among their kind would have powerful biotics. In ME1, if you take Garrus and Liara through the Citadel, and they're on the elevator together, Garrus remarks that he's envious of her people's natural ability, at which point she notes that not all Asari train to hone their biotic powers.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

Are you sure she was entirely alone? As I remember, she mentioned at least once that she traveled with companions and other archaeologists.

[Steelcan]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

This is valid reasoning,

"Shepard trianed her 'cause I want him to" is not.

[SNascimento]

David7204 wrote...

I don't have to imply it. It's simply the most obvious and plausible answer to a problem. Liara has no combat experience or training. Yet she becomes good at combat. The simple answer is that she received training. That's just basic reasoning.

This isn't an explanation, it's an excuse. 

The explanation is simple: the writers wanted it. The fact is that there is two Liaras. The ME1 one, and the ME2 and ME3 one. There is no connection between them, only a rupture.

[spirosz]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

See now, this is what I thought and it makes sense to me.  The fact her mother was powerful, I doubt that she wouldn't of taught Liara, regardless of Liara rejecting the idea of becoming a "Great Biotic".  

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

If anyone has an actual explanation other than the one I proposed for how Liara became a skilled warrior instead of this petty and trivial nonsense, let me hear me it.

I can assure everyone here deductive reasoning is not 'headcanon.'

1.  She isn't skilled really
2.  The magic of handwaving