243 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

I hope you're not serious. Because that's nonsense.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I hope you're not serious. Because that's nonsense.

You are really good with this irony

[David7204]

KaiserShep wrote...

There's any number of explanations to account for Liara's weapons training, given that she had about a century to learn something about managing a firearm. We don't really need to see her taking weapons training courses to learn how to handle a pistol in a firefight.

Given Liara's deposition and lack of dialogue on the subject, I seriously doubt she handled guns before the first game.

There's many possible explanations. But the most reasonable is that she learned on the Normandy.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

If the entirety of a species is capable of biotics, and biotic training is common among them, it seems reasonable enough that many examples out of that species, regardless of military background, would have powerful biotic abilities.

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain all the other important elements of combat training.

No it doesn't. And the elements are arbitrarily given to Liara by the writers to make her a designated badass because that's what the writers want her to be, regardless of the previous story, to the point where she, a civilian with no advanced military training with firearms or biotics, suddenly becomes an elite operative.

[David7204]

ME 1 likely takes months. Nothing happens 'suddenly.' It's completely reasonable that someone could learn combat in such time.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 08:59 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

There's any number of explanations to account for Liara's weapons training, given that she had about a century to learn something about managing a firearm. We don't really need to see her taking weapons training courses to learn how to handle a pistol in a firefight.

Given Liara's deposition and lack of dialogue on the subject, I seriously doubt she handled guns before the first game.

There's many possible explanations. But the most reasonable is that she learned on the Normandy.

And if she was the last mission you did before going to Ilos?

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

 that she learned on the Normandy. 

She learned or developed it better?  

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

And if she was the last mission you did before going to Ilos?

Oh snap, forgot about that.  

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I hope you're not serious. Because that's nonsense.

Claiming it as non-sense (without providing an argument I might add) and expressing incredulousness on the subject (which is a mind projection fallacy) doesn't make it in less plausible. 

That's what you're doing. You say your explanation, without any proof, is real because of deductive reasoning (that is flawed by the way) while everyone elses' explanations are non-sense.

Do you think you're inherently more intelligent and capable and creative and smart than everyone else? 

[David7204]

I'm guessing she developed her biotics and learned to use firearms and other combat skills and abilities.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I hope you're not serious. Because that's nonsense.

Your lack of awareness is... entertaining.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I'm guessing she developed her biotics and learned to use firearms and other combat skills and abilities.

I hear that "play dead" is really effective.  She spent most of her time kissing the floor

[KaiserShep]

Sweet Jebus. Who cares. Basic training in reality doesn't even take that long. Next we'll wonder how the crew members even live since we never see them eat on the ship.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[David7204]

Exactly right. We don't assume the crew never eat or use the bathroom simple because we don't see it. Likewise, there's no reason to assume the crew isn't training because we don't see it.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:06 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

spirosz wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

How about this conversation go away now? You guys said your points.

Talk more about Jack and/or power strengths. Stop screwing it up with the whole Liara love/hate thing.

To me, Jack is the strongest human Biotic there is, but she lacks the discipline that Miranda has.  I find that Jack is also, much stronger than Shepard, but obviously gameplay will argue that, so - I won't even bother.  Jack works well under combat situation, but she was brought up as power first, finesse later - though she does have her "moments" - 

Subject Zero

Still don't know whether Jack or Gillian is stronger. They've both been described as the most powerful biotic ever.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

ME 1 likely takes months. Nothing happens 'suddenly.' It's completely reasonable that someone could learn combat in such time.

'Likely' is headcanon. 'Months' is headcanon. And no, it's bloody well not. Speaking from experience, combat skills, especially the very advanced combat and survival skills expected of the operators on this very high stakes, very dangerous special operations mission with galactic ramifications, take a lot longer than months. This mission is the sort of mission that your average Special Forces team would spend months training for alone, let alone broad combat capability.

Especially if, IF, the training took place, there would be limited time for it. I've already stated that there is a lot of other, much, much more pressing matters to attend to for Shepard and the rest of the team. Shepard has a mission to accomplish. He has a ship to run. He doesn't have time to teach Liara how to hold a gun. Neither does anyone else. They all have duties to take care of on the ship, and Shepard is going to need them for the mission. They don't have any more time to train Liara than Shepard does.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Exactly right. We don't assume the crew never eat or use the bathroom simple because we don't see it. Likewise, there's no reason to assume the crew isn't training because we don't see it.

Where?  The Normandy doesn't have a shooting range

[David7204]

I'm sure something could be jury-rigged. Besides, the Normandy spends a lot of time on the Citadel and other places that would likely be equipped with proper facilities.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

KaiserShep wrote...

Sweet Jebus. Who cares. Basic training in reality doesn't even take that long. Next we'll wonder how the crew members even live since we never see them eat on the ship.

Basic Training is just that. Basic. You're not taught everything it takes to be a soldier, or an infantryman, or an armor crewman, or an aviator, or a cannoneer, or an analyst, or an MP. You're taught the basics, the fundamentals. You're still light-years from mission and combat readiness, especially since this mission is the kind mission where dedicated SFP and SOP take years to train for.

[Barquiel]

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Modifié par Barquiel, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:12 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

I'm sure something could be jury-rigged. Besides, the Normandy spends a lot of time on the Citadel and other places that would likely be equipped with proper facilities.

Here we go with more assumptions.

You know what they say about assumptions.

[David7204]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Lore trumps gameplay. And Liara is shown to be competent with weapons, and even generally prefer them to biotics in cutscenes.

[AresKeith]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Another point for Barquiel, while David gets none