243 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I'm sure something could be jury-rigged. Besides, the Normandy spends a lot of time on the Citadel and other places that would likely be equipped with proper facilities.

lol

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Exactly right. We don't assume the crew never eat or use the bathroom simple because we don't see it. Likewise, there's no reason to assume the crew isn't training because we don't see it.

They aren't. They're engaged in the middle of a mission/operation. They don't have time to train. They're in the real deal now.

This is what they've been training for previously. They're operating now on a mission.

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Lore trumps gameplay. And Liara is shown to be competent with weapons, and even generally prefer them to biotics in cutscenes.

No. Just no. 

[David7204]

No, what they're likely engaged in is 99% traveling and other mundane tasks that don't concern the combat team.

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Lore trumps gameplay. And Liara is shown to be competent with weapons, and even generally prefer them to biotics in cutscenes.

No. Just no. 

Uh, yes. Or were all of those cutscenes in LotSB a figment of my imagination? Liara is competent with weapons. There's no debate.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Lore trumps gameplay. And Liara is shown to be competent with weapons, and even generally prefer them to biotics in cutscenes.

And it's inconsistent with what the writers portray her as. Therefor, it's developer inconsistency.

That said, I thought it would just be a reused animation for all the characters. In fact, if it was anyone but Liara, you'd be going around saying how non-sensical and childish it would be to expect any different for any other character.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AresKeith wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Liara doesn't have any special weapon/armor trainig in ME1, and her skillset reflects this. She has Throw, Warp, Lift, Singularity, Barrier and Stasis: all biotic skills that can be explained. She also has Electronics and First Aid (useful skills on dig sites). She's mainly about spamming biotics, not shooting enemies.

Another point for Barquiel, while David gets none

Remember kids in Davey's world no waifu can become great on their own, it must all be because of the heroic sue-ish efforts of David Shepard a 123% Paragon hero.

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

And it's inconsistent with what the writers portray her as. Therefor, it's developer inconsistency.

That said, I thought it would just be a reused animation for all the characters. In fact, if it was anyone but Liara, you'd be going around saying how non-sensical and childish it would be to expect any different for any other character.

Name me a single instance where Liara says she prefers using biotics to weapons.

Modifié par David7204, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[The Night Mammoth]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

ME 1 likely takes months. Nothing happens 'suddenly.' It's completely reasonable that someone could learn combat in such time.

'Likely' is headcanon. 'Months' is headcanon. And no, it's bloody well not. Speaking from experience, combat skills, especially the very advanced combat and survival skills expected of the operators on this very high stakes, very dangerous special operations mission with galactic ramifications, take a lot longer than months. This mission is the sort of mission that your average Special Forces team would spend months training for alone, let alone broad combat capability.

So Shepard's the only person remotely qualified?

[Wulfram]

ME1 has Liara as the worst shot on the squad - everyone else has weapon skills, except Kaidan whose Sentinel skill improves pistol accuracy and damage. So I don't think reason to assume she had anything more than the most basic training.

edit:  And in ME1 cutscenes she doesn't pull a gun, but instead starts glowing

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:21 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Lore trumps gameplay. And Liara is shown to be competent with weapons, and even generally prefer them to biotics in cutscenes.

No. Just no. 

Uh, yes. Or were all of those cutscenes in LotSB a figment of my imagination? Liara is competent with weapons. There's no debate.

You mean two years after ME1 were it's obvious that Liara would get better with a gun

You don't say <_<

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

No, what they're likely engaged in is 99% traveling and other mundane tasks that don't concern the combat team.

They're definitely concerned with operating the ship. It isn't some dream-liner powered by heroism and characterization David. This is the operation that they're applying all the training that they've spent years doing to make sure the ship is operating at peak efficiency and combat effectiveness. This isn't training. This is the real thing. There are more personnel aboard the Normandy than just the combat team. Somebody has to fly the ship. And fix the engines. And chart the course. And monitor the sensors. And check the shields. And fire the guns. And repair the Mako. And heal the crew. And operate the communications in an efficient, clear, and concise manner.

[David7204]

ME 1 doesn't have any combat cutscenes for any character. So there's really no telling who has what level of skill. As I've said, gameplay is not indicative. (And before people start whining, that's true for nearly all games.)

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

ME 1 likely takes months. Nothing happens 'suddenly.' It's completely reasonable that someone could learn combat in such time.

'Likely' is headcanon. 'Months' is headcanon. And no, it's bloody well not. Speaking from experience, combat skills, especially the very advanced combat and survival skills expected of the operators on this very high stakes, very dangerous special operations mission with galactic ramifications, take a lot longer than months. This mission is the sort of mission that your average Special Forces team would spend months training for alone, let alone broad combat capability.

So Shepard's the only person remotely qualified?

A case could be made for Garrus, and probably Wrex. Kaidan also has his utility as a veteran officer with a particular skillset with which he is highly trained.

But otherwise, yeah. Believe me, it's not just Liara I'm complaining about.

[David7204]

You seem to be proving my point, Massively. There are other personal aboard the ship. The combat team doesn't need to concern itself with keeping the ship running. There's an entire crew to do that.

[Wulfram]

David7204 wrote...

ME 1 doesn't have any combat cutscenes for any character. So there's really no telling who has what level of skill. As I've said, gameplay is not indicative. (And before people start whining, that's true for nearly all games.)

There are various occasions when people visibly prepare to fight.  Liara starts glowing biotically, and doesn't draw her gun.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

ME 1 doesn't have any combat cutscenes for any character. So there's really no telling who has what level of skill. As I've said, gameplay is not indicative. (And before people start whining, that's true for nearly all games.)

Then that would indicate that the skills that we see from characters, like Liara, who are (against their writing and characterization) capable of killing entire enemy commando groups. 

But what about special gameplay sequences that are markedly different from cutscenes while have differentiating outcomes, like in Arrival? Remember Object Rho? Remember how there was a difference in how that sequence played out depending on how long your Shepard held out against the scientists? What about that?

[SlottsMachine]

Jack is a GOD! You see you may not have noticed but after she was rescued by Shepard at Grissom, she vowed she would never let herself be put in that situation again. So after grueling training so intense any mere mortal could not comprehend it, she uncovered hidden knowledge about herself.

She was in fact the true Biotic God, and the Reapers would quake in fear.

[David7204]

Gameplay and Story Segregation is a reality of all video games. I suggest you get used to that reality.

[Br3admax]

David7204 wrote...

Gameplay and Story Segregation is a reality of all video games. I suggest you get used to that reality.

So says he. So says David. And his word became law. He draws the lines that we shall not cross and defines the way he sees fit. His will, our command. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

You seem to be proving my point, Massively. There are other personal aboard the ship. The combat team doesn't need to concern itself with keeping the ship running. There's an entire crew to do that.

And who's to say those members of the combat team don't also have a role to play aboard the ship? That's how naval vessels operate. All crewmen, including the members of the shore/away/combat team all have other duties aboard the vessel. Kaidan is a member of the command staff on the ship and he's doing something in the life support area. Tali is working in Engineering. Garrus is doing something with the Mako (he might even be the technician and mechanic for it). Ashley is managing the armory. Shepard is managing the ship. Wrex is the only one not really doing anything. Regardless, where are they going to train? The ship is too small, and too populated, and too expensive, and too vital to conduct any kind of real training simulations anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm going to make Liara useful too. She has to earn her keep somehow aboard the ship. I'm not taking an untrained neophyte civilian with me on missions, so there's no chance Liara is going to get any practical field experience. So really, how is Liara supposed to get these combat skills?

[David7204]

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Gameplay and Story Segregation is a reality of all video games. I suggest you get used to that reality.

So says he. So says David. And his word became law. He draws the lines that we shall not cross and defines the way he sees fit. His will, our command. 

Am I wrong, Br3ad?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Gameplay and Story Segregation is a reality of all video games. I suggest you get used to that reality.

I'm not denying it nor did I ever.

But I do remember playing one part of Arrival where the gameplay did affect the story, based on the firefight around Object Rho.

[Steelcan]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You seem to be proving my point, Massively. There are other personal aboard the ship. The combat team doesn't need to concern itself with keeping the ship running. There's an entire crew to do that.

And who's to say those members of the combat team don't also have a role to play aboard the ship? That's how naval vessels operate. All crewmen, including the members of the shore/away/combat team all have other duties aboard the vessel. Kaidan is a member of the command staff on the ship and he's doing something in the life support area. Tali is working in Engineering. Garrus is doing something with the Mako (he might even be the technician and mechanic for it). Ashley is managing the armory. Shepard is managing the ship. Wrex is the only one not really doing anything. Regardless, where are they going to train? The ship is too small, and too populated, and too expensive, and too vital to conduct any kind of real training simulations anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm going to make Liara useful too. She has to earn her keep somehow aboard the ship. I'm not taking an untrained neophyte civilian with me on missions, so there's no chance Liara is going to get any practical field experience. So really, how is Liara supposed to get these combat skills?

proximity to Shepard's heroism