243 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

David7204 wrote...

You'll also notice there's no entry for Liara.

So? They can hardly list every character to who this applies.

[Br3admax]

StreetMagic wrote...

Might have to agree with David on that. Seems like only Saren and Shep had cutscenes in the first game. Maybe that little bit of Ash shooting Geth in the beginning. Nothing remarkable there but soldiering though.

Never was sure about Wrex's biotics. He did beat a Thresher maw back in the day, so he's pretty damn good. Battlemasters are just as known for their leadership and ruthless tactics as well. Not just for being vanguards.

I could never do that; I don't know if you can, but I can't.

As to Wrex, his biotics are powerful. He's had a long time to refine them. I don't think ruthless tactics help against a thresher maw. 

[David7204]

Greylycantrope wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You'll also notice there's no entry for Liara.

So? They can hardly list every character to who this applies.

And you're completely free to try and add it and argue your case for it. Which is the whole reason why I posted the link. If it's so obvious, you should have no problem.

But you see, unlike the BSN, you won't get dozens of thumbs up just for shrieking 'Liara is stupid, BioWare is stupid, Walters is stupid.'

[Br3admax]

StreetMagic wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Might have to agree with David on that. Seems like only Saren and Shep had cutscenes in the first game. Maybe that little bit of Ash shooting Geth in the beginning. Nothing remarkable there but soldiering though.

Never was sure about Wrex's biotics. He did beat a Thresher maw back in the day, so he's pretty damn good. Battlemasters are just as known for their leadership and ruthless tactics as well. Not just for being vanguards.

I could never do that; I don't know if you can, but I can't.

As to Wrex, his biotics are powerful. He's had a long time to refine them. I don't think ruthless tactics help against a thresher maw. 

No, ruthlessness wouldn't help. Just saying that's part of his battlemaster title. Not exactly relevant, I know.

What could you not do? You mean Ash shooting Geth? Don't mean to knock it. I just meant nothing particularly unique stands out with her abilities, different from other soldiers. She doesn't die like Jenkins. That's good enough.

You mean besides the fact that all the other soldiers are dead? 

[GreyLycanTrope]

David7204 wrote...
And you're completely free to try and add it and argue your case for it. Which is the whole reason why I posted the link. If it's so obvious, you should have no problem.

But you see, unlike the BSN, you won't get dozens of thumbs up just for shrieking 'Liara is stupid, BioWare is stupid, Walters is stupid.'

Why would I? Altering sources to suit my arguement robs the source of credibility.

[Wolfva2]

J. Reezy wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You seem to be proving my point, Massively. There are other personal aboard the ship. The combat team doesn't need to concern itself with keeping the ship running. There's an entire crew to do that.

And who's to say those members of the combat team don't also have a role to play aboard the ship? That's how naval vessels operate. All crewmen, including the members of the shore/away/combat team all have other duties aboard the vessel. Kaidan is a member of the command staff on the ship and he's doing something in the life support area. Tali is working in Engineering. Garrus is doing something with the Mako (he might even be the technician and mechanic for it). Ashley is managing the armory. Shepard is managing the ship. Wrex is the only one not really doing anything. Regardless, where are they going to train? The ship is too small, and too populated, and too expensive, and too vital to conduct any kind of real training simulations anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm going to make Liara useful too. She has to earn her keep somehow aboard the ship. I'm not taking an untrained neophyte civilian with me on missions, so there's no chance Liara is going to get any practical field experience. So really, how is Liara supposed to get these combat skills?

Through the power of heroism and characterization. And time-skips.

1980s style training mirage, done to 'The Eye of the Tiger'.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Something I've wondered about ever since I first saw it was what to make of the bit about Jack's increased "neural degeneration" or whatever in ME2 - does buying the upgrade ("Subject Zero Biotic Boost," I think) correct this? And if not, are we to assume that Jack won't be long for this world even if she does survive the war?

[Display Name Owner]

She's the strongest Human biotic. I doubt she's the strongest biotic full stop. Going by the Suicide Mission, her biotics are on par with Samara's. It might be that Samara has more control whilst Jack has more power, but anyway, they are equivalent. Samara is apparently not a Matriarch yet, although given that her whole life is devoted to training in the extreme, it wouldn't be unfair to assume she's at least close to Matriarch-level biotics. Which would lead me to assume Jack's about the same.

So yeah, I'd say she's close to Matriarch strength, but slightly below.

[Br3admax]

isnudo wrote...

She's the strongest Human biotic. I doubt she's the strongest biotic full stop. Going by the Suicide Mission, her biotics are on par with Samara's. It might be that Samara has more control whilst Jack has more power, but anyway, they are equivalent. Samara is apparently not a Matriarch yet, although given that her whole life is devoted to training in the extreme, it wouldn't be unfair to assume she's at least close to Matriarch-level biotics. Which would lead me to assume Jack's about the same.

So yeah, I'd say she's close to Matriarch strength, but slightly below.

Jack is stated to be the most talented biotic ever. Not the strongest human biotic, but of anyone. That was the point in recruiting her in the first place. Samara is strong, but she is not Jack strong. Stregnth has nothing to do with focus, so I don't even know why you brought that up. Effectivness is debateable, but strength is all about raw power. 

[JonKing550]

Dosen't matter, she's dead in my game LOL.

[Display Name Owner]

@ Br3ad

Where was that stated? I definitely remember the words "strongest human biotic" in her dossier I think it was, but I don't remember reading most talented ever.

Anyway, why shouldn't control come into it? I was comparing her to Samara. Whilst Samara is highly trained, which is what makes her so capable, Jack isn't - the experiments were all about achieving strength, not skill. So for her to be of essentially the same use as Samara, she probably has extra strength to compensate for the skill Samara has that she doesn't. That's why I put her strength above Samara's, who was stated to be nearing Matriarch-level capabilities. Just giving my rationale for putting her where I did, rather than arbitrarily saying "she can take down a Reaper just because" (no offence OP)

[AlexMBrennan]

That was the point in recruiting her in the first place

Then what would have been the point in recruiting Samara?

[SlottsMachine]

JonKing550 wrote...

Dosen't matter, she's dead in my game LOL.

That attitude is so 2010.

Modifié par General Slotts, 09 septembre 2013 - 06:35 .

[Br3admax]

isnudo wrote...

@ Br3ad

Where was that stated? I definitely remember the words "strongest human biotic" in her dossier I think it was, but I don't remember reading most talented ever.

Her war Asset in ME3. They aren't worth much in the long run, but they give a good read.

Anyway, why shouldn't control come into it? I was comparing her to Samara. Whilst Samara is highly trained, which is what makes her so capable, Jack isn't - the experiments were all about achieving strength, not skill. So for her to be of essentially the same use as Samara, she probably has extra strength to compensate for the skill Samara has that she doesn't. That's why I put her strength above Samara's, who was stated to be nearing Matriarch-level capabilities. Just giving my rationale for putting her where I did, rather than arbitrarily saying "she can take down a Reaper just because" (no offence OP)

Because hitting a tin can a mile away isn't as impressive as demolishing everything around it, including the tin can. 

[LiL Reapur]

Br3ad! your avatar.....

@isnudo
meh didn't feel like explaining it my bad.

[Br3admax]

What about it?

[LiL Reapur]

Br3ad wrote...

What about it?

Nothin' just different, but it looks nice......

[LiL Reapur]

isnudo wrote...

She's the strongest Human biotic. I doubt she's the strongest biotic full stop. Going by the Suicide Mission, her biotics are on par with Samara's.

Pause........
She was nerfed to be on par with samara sir, did you not see what she did to that prison when you recruited her?
How she raped three AR mechs at once? she was NERFED during gameplay on purpose. But what went down at the prison.
Massacre...

It might be that Samara has more control whilst Jack has more power, but anyway, they are equivalent.

Again Pause.....
Jack can demolish samara no offense, her biotics are EXTREMELY EXPERIMENTAL, and we haven't even seen her limit. Samara's was when she fought morinth and they had a kamehameha fight that's her limit.

Samara is apparently not a Matriarch yet, although given that her whole life is devoted to training in the extreme, it wouldn't be unfair to assume she's at least close to Matriarch-level biotics. Which would lead me to assume Jack's about the same.

Same as other rebuttal

So yeah, I'd say she's close to Matriarch strength, but slightly below.

Again, no......

Modifié par LiL Reapur, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:23 .

[andy6915]

LiL Reapur wrote...

Pause........
She was nerfed to be on par with samara sir, did you not see what she did to that prison when you recruited her?
How she raped three AR mechs at once? she was NERFED during gameplay on purpose. But what went down at the prison.
Massacre...

Seriously. Even though ME3 vanguard Shepard could take on 4 Ymir mechs at once with nothing but biotics and win, s/he wouldn't have been able to do it in only a couple of seconds on anything but narrative (and uncanon) difficulty. You can kill an Atlas in ME3 with just biotics pretty quicky, and you could kill a bunched up group of Atlases pretty quicky too if they ever grouped up like that. Ymir mechs and Atlas mechs are pretty close in power, with Atlases being stronger, so you can guess how quicky you could kill 4 Ymir mechs. But it would probably would take closer to 30 or 40 seconds though as opposed to Jacks, uh... 10 seconds? 5? You can get down there really quick, and she's still done and out of the room even by then.

It is funny, adept Shepard is supposed to be the biotic master... Yet vanguard Shepard is the biotically more powerful one. That 200% cooldown bonus charge and nova, it's crazy strong.

By the way, only 3 are shown in the scene, but Jack kills 4. There's a 4th one near the back of the room, it even has a damage protection research on it.

Modifié par andy69156915, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:42 .

[Han Shot First]

LiL Reapur wrote...


Jack can demolish samara no offense, her biotics are EXTREMELY EXPERIMENTAL, and we haven't even seen her limit. Samara's was when she fought morinth and they had a kamehameha fight that's her limit.

Considering the ME2 crew were supposed to be the best of the best in their respective areas of expertise, Samara must have been considered exceptional even for an Asari. And the Asari are a naturally biotic species that evolved in an ecosystem where eezo is plentiful and much of the animal kingdom is biotically active.

Jack is merely the most powerful human biotic. The notion that humans could rival the Asari in biotics, given the Asari's evolutionary history, would be a bit like claiming a human scuba diver is as at home in the ocean as a dolphin.

If Samara and Jack were to fight, I'd place my bet on Jack having all of her internal organs ruptured in about 2.3 seconds.

[RZIBARA]

David7204 wrote...

You'll also notice there's no entry for Liara.

that's because she isn't the best biotic. Jack is much stronger

[LiL Reapur]

Han Shot First wrote...

LiL Reapur wrote...


Jack can demolish samara no offense, her biotics are EXTREMELY EXPERIMENTAL, and we haven't even seen her limit. Samara's was when she fought morinth and they had a kamehameha fight that's her limit.

Considering the ME2 crew were supposed to be the best of the best in their respective areas of expertise, Samara must have been considered exceptional even for an Asari. And the Asari are a naturally biotic species that evolved in an ecosystem where eezo is plentiful and much of the animal kingdom is biotically active.

Jack is merely the most powerful human biotic. The notion that humans could rival the Asari in biotics, given the Asari's evolutionary history, would be a bit like claiming a human scuba diver is as at home in the ocean as a dolphin.

You give the asari too much credit, if that was so why was matriarch benezia a S****y biotic? All she did was open doors and control geth whoopdee doo yea that's intimidating, also most would say samara is below her? yeah at that point Samara would  get a new one tore open before she can even think.

If Samara and Jack were to fight, I'd place my bet on Jack having
all of her internal organs ruptured in about 2.3 seconds.

Why she couldn't do that to morinth?
Proves my point even further.....

EDIT: Heres a video showing how this MATRIARCH is sooo good with biotics
Here

Modifié par LiL Reapur, 09 septembre 2013 - 08:54 .