298 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Beerfish wrote...
- Huge health and shields which can still be one or two shotted against enemy bosses.

You are not supposed to tank vs. enemy bosses. That's why they're called bosses.

- Virtually no mobility at all.

Not many people know this but Krogans can use their heavy melee as dodge because it moves them forward. I've escaped many sync kills as Krogan characters this way.

- Huge hit boxes, where other classes can dance around sync killers as soon as you are in range your toast.

All enemies aim at your center of mass and have practically perfect accuracy on Gold+ so hit box does not matter. Sync kills happen at the same range with the same condition for all characters.

- Suffer from the melee build scenario of having to choose from health and shileds or melee damage.

Don't use melee build on Gold+. Or use Kroguard/Krolord. Both are capable of meleeing on Platinum - health and shields don't matter when you can stack DR towards and above 100%.

- Rage mechanic that comes into play not often enough  (as in you get into rage by killing stuff but then you have to hunt down other enemies and by that time rage can subside, not too mention it makes some maps like fbwhite blizzard pretty awful to play.)

Kroguard and Krolord can both keep up permanent Rage easily on Gold. In the former's case because Biotic Charge kills count towards Rage and in the latter's case because of unique Rage mechanics.

Now before we get the old l2p, if played in pug by a good player then yes they will do better than the avg public player but stick 4 good players in a match, one krogan and the other 3 anything they wish and I'm betting you'll lag on the score board.

KroSol and KroSent are two of the best Incendiary characters on Platinum. Easily capable of competing against any good Solider or Infiltrator.

In conclusion, their high shields and health do not make up for increased sync kill danger and general danger of being an up close fighter.

Only Kroguard and Krolord are destined up close fighters. The others are just as powerful, if not more powerful at range.

Ranged KroSol build:
http://kalence.drupa...35!!..W5!7CFE5G

Ranged KroSent build:
http://kalence.drupa...35!!..W5!B96E5G

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[TMB903]

I do agree that it's rather silly that a tiny Phantom can sync kill a Krogan...of course I've been saying for the longest that sync kills need a LOT of fine tuning if they even decide to keep the mechanic for ME4.

[Beerfish]

Fortack wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Other races class builds fit the race and the game mechanics.  The krogans, due to sync kills, lack of mobility and enemies that can essentially one shot your shields, makes them the worst race.

If you believe the Krogan ought to be nearly unkillable melee monsters that can compete with the other race without using guns and powers whilst the others do you would have a point.

All Krogan kits are among the most durable out there. They have the best heavy (and the coolest light) melee in the game. Cooldowns are no real issue for Krogan so they can easily go to town with the biggest guns available (read Claymoars but you don't like those either I recall). That sounds Krogan enough for me.

No of course not but does their 'tankiness' pay off when a scion can take down your shileds with one shot and a scion can take down a volus shields in one shot and not affect health.  As for melee, for sure the sentinel is he best melee'r in the game except when it comes time for the bosses to come out that are not primes.  He has to run and find a ramp. 

[ToLazy4Name]

Beerfish, i've always thought you were an idiot, but this thread solidifies my impression that you're on a whole other level of idiot entirely.

Unless you're trolling, that is, but I don't think you are.

[Beerfish]

iOnlySignIn wrote...


You are not supposed to tank vs. enemy bosses. That's why they're called bosses.

Exactly and that is where their build strength is, while all the other races have abilites that CAN be used vs bosses krogans don't.

Not many people know this but Krogans can use their heavy melee as dodge because it moves them forward. I've escaped many sync kills as Krogan characters this way.

If you miss with the heavy melee because of a stagger, even a team mate staggering an enemy such as a phantom you are in prime sync position.

All enemies aim at your center of mass and have practically perfect accuracy on Gold+ so hit box does not matter. Sync kills happen at the same range with the same condition for all characters.

Okay, we can elimiate the hit box if you wish and just go with mobility.  Krogans get synced way way more often than other mobile kits in the same distance.

Don't use melee build on Gold+. Or use Kroguard/Krolord. Both are capable of meleeing on Platinum - health and shields don't matter when you can stack DR towards and above 100%.

You just made my argument for me.  Don't use melee on gold and above when their abilites are steered towards melee.

Kroguard and Krolord can both keep up permanent Rage easily on Gold. In the former's case because Biotic Charge kills count towards Rage and in the latter's case because of unique Rage mechanics.

If you are playing with lesser players and they leave lots of critters to kill laying around I may agree.

KroSol and KroSent are two of the best Incendiary characters on Platinum. Easily capable of competing against any good Solider or Infiltrator.

Agreed, both great incendiary characters, their passive tree and armour tree both give bonuses to melee.

Only Kroguard and Krolord are destined up close fighters. The others are just as powerful, if not more powerful at range.

And yet you said that melee is not desireable on gold or higher.

[Excella Gionne]

Krogans FTW! Shoot stuff, shotgun stuff in the face, headbutt, charge, and laugh at the things they killed, I don't see the point of hating them. Sure, their mobility sucks, but they can run faster than Vorchas.

[Wizard of Ox]

Beerfish wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...


You are not supposed to tank vs. enemy bosses. That's why they're called bosses.

Exactly and that is where their build strength is, while all the other races have abilites that CAN be used vs bosses krogans don't.

lol

Warp/Shockwave is the strongest BE in the game.
Inferno Grenades melt bosses.

Those are only two exemples. Your bad trolling is not worth more of my time. 

Modifié par KroGan_eRRanT, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:24 .

[Beerfish]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Beerfish, i've always thought you were an idiot, but this thread solidifies my impression that you're on a whole other level of idiot entirely.

Unless you're trolling, that is, but I don't think you are.

Feel free to refute the arguments.  I haven't seen anything so far that refutes what I've said.  BSN players can make any class look good.  The krogan due to the game design and their abilituy trees work against each other.

They are built for tankiness and yet due to shielgate and healthgate all of their extra health and shields are not the advantge they should be.

Their abilites are based around up close and melee play and yet even the big krogan proponents are saying 'just don't melee'.

Which race do you think is the worst in this game as far as their abilites vs game mechanics?

[Beerfish]

KroGan_eRRanT wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...


You are not supposed to tank vs. enemy bosses. That's why they're called bosses.

Exactly and that is where their build strength is, while all the other races have abilites that CAN be used vs bosses krogans don't.

lol

Warp/Shockwave is the strongest BE in the game.
Inferno Grenades melt bosses.

Those are only two exemples. Your bad trolling is not worth more of my time. 

All known and agreed.  What is races build based around?  Look at the actuall skill trees, passives.

Which race is worse than krogans as far as what they are intended to be and what the game lets them be?

[Beerfish]

johnnythao89 wrote...

Krogans FTW! Shoot stuff, shotgun stuff in the face, headbutt, charge, and laugh at the things they killed, I don't see the point of hating them. Sure, their mobility sucks, but they can run faster than Vorchas.

Who says anyone is hating them?

[iOnlySignIn]

Exactly and that is where their build strength is, while all the other races have abilites that CAN be used vs bosses krogans don't.

KroSol, KroSent, and Shaman have perfectly abilities vs. bosses, namely Inferno Grenade, Incinerate, and Warp.

Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum. If you're concerned with topping the scoreboard killing elites will give you higher scores than killing bosses in general.

If you miss with the heavy melee because of a stagger, even a team mate staggering an enemy such as a phantom you are in prime sync position.

You missed my point. The heavy melee is not used to hit enemies. It's just used to quickly move the Krogan forward, and to grant a moment of extra DR and stagger immunity.

Okay, we can elimiate the hit box if you wish and just go with mobility.  Krogans get synced way way more often than other mobile kits in the same distance.

Not really, no. But I hardly get synced as any kit anyway. 75% of my deaths nowadays come from Geth Primes.

You just made my argument for me.  Don't use melee on gold and above when their abilites are steered towards melee.

Their abilities are not more "steered towards melee" than other characters. GI has the highest melee DPS of any character in the game. Yet you don't see many people play melee builds on the GI.

Nobody is forcing you to melee as Krogan. If you feel you must melee as Krogan you're pigeonholing yourself into a small subset of less effective builds and can blame no one but yourself for it.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:31 .

[Chromatix]

Beerfish wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Beerfish, i've always thought you were an idiot, but this thread solidifies my impression that you're on a whole other level of idiot entirely.

Unless you're trolling, that is, but I don't think you are.

Their abilites are based around up close and melee play and yet even the big krogan proponents are saying 'just don't melee'.

So, pls, the enlightened one, tell me how:

Carange
Inferno Ryncol
Doyouevenlift Grenades
Incinerate
Warp
Shockwave

Are based around up close and melee play?

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum.

Krolord instakills a Brute.

Modifié par Chromatix, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:30 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum.

Krolord instakills a Brute.

On Platinum? I wouldn't know since I usually set enemies to Cerberus when I play Krolord. There's something very satisfying in bringing the hammer down on Phantoms and especially Dragoons.

Anyway, the Brute is also an elite. What I meant was Kroguard and Krolord players should ignore boss enemies (Banshee, Atlas, Geth Prime, Praetorian) and taking out the rest first.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Chromatix]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum.

Krolord instakills a Brute.

On Platinum? I wouldn't know since I usually set enemies to Cerberus when I play Krolord. There's something very satisfying in bringing the hammer down on Phantoms and especially Dragoons.

Anyway, the Brute is also an elite.

Ah derp. You're talking Plaitnum.

Well, if someone does Level 6 prime on it, then it's possible.

On gold ya just need ammo.

Modifié par Chromatix, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum.

Krolord instakills a Brute.

On Platinum? I wouldn't know since I usually set enemies to Cerberus when I play Krolord. There's something very satisfying in bringing the hammer down on Phantoms and especially Dragoons.

Anyway, the Brute is also an elite.

Ah derp. You're talking Plaitnum.

Well, if someone does Level 6 prime on it, then it's possible.

On gold ya just need ammo.

On Gold Krolord can instakill Ravagers without equipments. Brute may require a few magazines of shotgun fire first, yeah.

The Krolord's only weakness IMO is its running speed. It's such a shame that you need to run up to enemies first to instakill them - that's where the Kroguard has the advantage. But that's not a problem on any map as small as White or smaller.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:40 .

[ToaOrka]

We're going to have to agree to disagree or else you're
going to have to end up like the reporter in my icon.

[iOnlySignIn]

Beerfish wrote...

All known and agreed.  What is races build based around?  Look at the actuall skill trees, passives.

Which race is worse than krogans as far as what they are intended to be and what the game lets them be?

They are not "based around" melee or "intended to be" melee characters. That's just your illusion.

Like I said, GI has better melee DPS than any other character. And yet you don't see people complain that GI is bad because they can't make melee builds work consistently on Platinum.

Batarian Soldier has just as much melee-related skill trees and passives as the Krogans do. His heavy melee actually does more damage and gives more DR. And yet you don't see people complain that Batarian Soldier is bad because they can't make melee builds work consistently on Platinum.

Another example is the Asari Huntress. Highest melee damage multiplier in the game. And still, people don't feel compelled to melee with her.

Yet another example is the N7 Shadow. Is there a character with more melee-related skills than she does? No. Is a melee build for her the most effective on Platinum? Probably not. Does she have a non-melee build that can be competitive against any other class on Platinum? Most definitely yes.

Perhaps it's time for you to explore builds other than melee builds instead of torturing yourself by forcing yourself to melee.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:52 .

[Chromatix]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Chromatix wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Kroguard and Krolord are elite killers since both can instakill Phantoms and Dragoons on Platinum.

Krolord instakills a Brute.

On Platinum? I wouldn't know since I usually set enemies to Cerberus when I play Krolord. There's something very satisfying in bringing the hammer down on Phantoms and especially Dragoons.

Anyway, the Brute is also an elite.

Ah derp. You're talking Plaitnum.

Well, if someone does Level 6 prime on it, then it's possible.

On gold ya just need ammo.

On Gold Krolord can instakill Ravagers without equipments. Brute may require a few magazines of shotgun fire first, yeah.

The Krolord's only weakness IMO is its running speed. It's such a shame that you need to run up to enemies first to instakill them - that's where the Kroguard has the advantage. But that's not a problem on any map as small as White or smaller.

Adrenaline Mod

[cronshaw]

Beerfish wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Beerfish, i've always thought you were an idiot, but this thread solidifies my impression that you're on a whole other level of idiot entirely.

Unless you're trolling, that is, but I don't think you are.

Feel free to refute the arguments.  I haven't seen anything so far that refutes what I've said.  BSN players can make any class look good.  The krogan due to the game design and their abilituy trees work against each other.

They are built for tankiness and yet due to shielgate and healthgate all of their extra health and shields are not the advantge they should be.

Their abilites are based around up close and melee play and yet even the big krogan proponents are saying 'just don't melee'.

Which race do you think is the worst in this game as far as their abilites vs game mechanics?

So, Carnage, Inferno Grenades, Incenerate, Lift grenade, warp, and shockwave are close up powers?
got it
Your beef seems to be with rage vs HPs because you seem to think the rage mechanic is a survival mechanism
it isn't

[Malanek]

Are you actually serious Beerfish? I got the impression this was another one of those bonecold threads but now I'm not so sure.

[Fortack]

Beerfish wrote...

No of course not but does their 'tankiness' pay off when a scion can take down your shileds with one shot and a scion can take down a volus shields in one shot and not affect health.  As for melee, for sure the sentinel is he best melee'r in the game except when it comes time for the bosses to come out that are not primes.  He has to run and find a ramp. 

I don't see why the fact that a Scion can one-shot a Krogan shield really matters. Their attacks are supposed to be devastating, but they are also relatively easy to avoid.

Wise Krogan know their enemy and thus can anticipate their moves. Like all other race, it's either stupidity or some BS that gets you sync killed. Only moronic Krogan use ramps.

Melee is additional utility (like it is for all other race); The Krogan version is powerful enough to OHK >50% of all enemies you have to fight on gold. It gives nice DR which, combined with the other DR, makes them almost invincible during the animation. It can be used to quickly get out of sync kill range when needed, or to stagger. Superior melee compensates the lack of a dodge (which would look ridiculous anyway). Seems fair to me.

Headbutting bosses is stylish but not very effective. Krogan have to use the same cowardly tricks the other - lesser - races use to get rid of those types of enemies. So what? Even on Platinum (which is totally broken anyway) there are enough enemies to earn a couple shiny melee medals and keep those Rage bonuses going.

[iOnlySignIn]

Chromatix wrote...

Adrenaline Mod

Still too slow for me. <_< Especially on a large map like London - intolerable. If I play Krolord I'd have to set map.

But again, if you've got good teammates herding spawns properly it's a different story. PUG players though like to stick around me and force spawns onto the other end of the map.

[mybudgee]

Hey Op, come here... I have something really cool to show you. It's in there... go on. Yep. Right through there...
*Points to airlock*

[Arctican]

Beerfish wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Other races class builds fit the race and the game mechanics.  The krogans, due to sync kills, lack of mobility and enemies that can essentially one shot your shields, makes them the worst race.

If you believe the Krogan ought to be nearly unkillable melee monsters that can compete with the other race without using guns and powers whilst the others do you would have a point.

All Krogan kits are among the most durable out there. They have the best heavy (and the coolest light) melee in the game. Cooldowns are no real issue for Krogan so they can easily go to town with the biggest guns available (read Claymoars but you don't like those either I recall). That sounds Krogan enough for me.

No of course not but does their 'tankiness' pay off when a scion can take down your shileds with one shot and a scion can take down a volus shields in one shot and not affect health.  As for melee, for sure the sentinel is he best melee'r in the game except when it comes time for the bosses to come out that are not primes.  He has to run and find a ramp. 

Why so focused on Scions being able to 1 shot Krogans shields? Putting aside that this is false when you fully upgrade shields and DR, I'd like to see other races laugh at Marauder or Captain burst fires like Krogans can. Tankiness does not mean being invicible to every enemy in the game. To judge a kit because of this one detail is to ignore all the other times Krogan tankiness pays off.

And again, why so focused on Krogan melee? It;s one of the their strengths but it;s not their only weapons in the arsenal. Krodept is a tanky adept with impressive BE. Kroldier is the master at FE and melting boss armor. Krotinel has Lift Grenades and Incinerate cheese should you choose to use it. The Kroguard has currently one of the fastest Platinum solo times. And the Krolord is the one of the kit where you can kill bosses with a couple of melee comboes.