136 réponses à ce sujet

[Hainkpe]

My first play through of DA2, I sided with the Templars. Second time, with the Mages. Both sides have strong and weak points to their respective arguments. At this point, I do not see one being preferential over the other.

Is anyone certain? If so, why? Or are there others like me who think both sides are being idiots? 



Disclaimer: I have not read the books, so perhaps the books shed more light.

[Reofeir]

I believe most people think they are both being idiots. It's the fight of the extremes.

[BraveVesperia]

To be honest, I see both sides (as they've been presented so far) as extreme. The templars wanting to lock up all the mages without any liberties, hunt them down and kill/Tranquil them, etc, and basically treat them all the same. But I also dislike the 'pro-mage' idea of making all mages free and able to do whatever they like with no more restraint on them than any other person.
Something midway seems ideal to me.

[Hainkpe]

Hence, the inquisition. Yet, I was taken aback by an acquaintance who got after me for siding with the Templars because the mages are being punished for something they have no control over. Yet, is that what it's really about?

There are so many layers and the extreme reaction of both sides seems disproportional to the identified problem.

Modifié par Hainkpe, 08 septembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[DatOneFanboy]

From what ive seen Templar's aint doing sht They're locking up Good people in the Circle while blood mages roam free .

[Jamie9]

I think the Mages are the most right in principal, being that they are pretty much being persecuted for something completely beyond their control.

However, it's understandable that the populace would want some kind of protection against the immense power of magic.

There is middle ground, I believe. Keep phylacteries of all known mages so they can be tracked if they go abomination or blood mage. Have the Circles be mandatory schooling that teaches mages to control their magic, but don't lock them up. That pretty much encourages rebellion.

[d-boy15]

The story of Templar/Mage conflict is supposed to be grey, no right or wrong.

[Hainkpe]

But what should the Templars be doing? They are limited and they are up against a force that has an easy out. Blood mages. Even Orsino turned to blood magic. It's too easy.

[Former_Fiend]

Doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. What matters is the giant whole in the sky with death pouring out of it.

The Templars and the mages will fall in line, or they will simply fall.

[Jamie9]

Hainkpe wrote...
But what should the Templars be doing? They are limited and they are up against a force that has an easy out. Blood mages. Even Orsino turned to blood magic. It's too easy.

To be fair to individual Templars, the Chantry goes out of its way to try and create mage-haters.

An individual of Thedas may join the organisation with an intention to help but the Chantry don't exactly have that in mind.

[PillarBiter]

 Kill'm all and let the maker sort 'm out.

[DatOneFanboy]

This is cold hardcore reality, People will always die and sometimes authorities will do the killing neither side is 'right' but they both share a similar goal ~ survival

[Gruffe]

Hainkpe wrote...

My first play through of DA2, I sided with the Templars. Second time, with the Mages. Both sides have strong and weak points to their respective arguments. At this point, I do not see one being preferential over the other.

Is anyone certain? If so, why? Or are there others like me who think both sides are being idiots? 
 

Idiotic? no. Selfish? Yes.

Honestally, I see the war as a back drop, my Inquizitor will ignore it as long as they ignore him. If any Red Templars or Blood Mages get in his way, then they will be cut down like any demon or bandit. 

In DAII I sided with Mages because, well, I was playing a mage. 

[Daissran]

Pro-mage all the way. Templars abuse their power, taking children away from their families, only to be locked in the circle tower or somewhere else. And turning mages into tranquil, its horrible.

[cactusberry]

No. They're both wrong.

Templars were being way too strict and abusive.
Mages were practicing blood magic and tons of them were abominations.

[KainD]

Zenor wrote...

I believe most people think they are both being idiots. It's the fight of the extremes.

And I believe that compromise is for idiots, extremes are what moves the progress forward. 

[Nyneve]

Jamie9 wrote...

I think the Mages are the most right in principal, being that they are pretty much being persecuted for something completely beyond their control.

However, it's understandable that the populace would want some kind of protection against the immense power of magic.

There is middle ground, I believe. Keep phylacteries of all known mages so they can be tracked if they go abomination or blood mage. Have the Circles be mandatory schooling that teaches mages to control their magic, but don't lock them up. That pretty much encourages rebellion.

Something like this. I think the circles should all be self -regulating, not controlled by templars. Giving one group of people absolute power over another, marginalized, group is not a good idea and will always lead to abuse of that power (templars regularly beat/rape mages). And if mages were actually allowed to see their families and have their own, they would not be so quick to turn to blood magic, because they have something to lose.

[Statare]

I think the most convincing argument against the templars is that they maintain and keep their power through policing the mages. It is good for their popularity if a few mages turn to blood magic, because then they can justify their extreme measures. Such incidents prove they are useful. Their use-value increases as public opinion of mages decreases. In the end it boils down to: do you feel sympathetic to the people who are already believed to be guilty of something they may not ever do, and will never experience a normal life with out resorting to extreme measures? A templar can easily lead a normal life, a mage is in a Panopticon.

Another valid point: the templar system eliminates differing views of magic from being expressed (the Dalish have a very healthy view of magic- it's not perfect, but it seems to be more productive than violent).

[KainD]

MasterScribe wrote...

Self-interest is not just and moral.

So.. survival is immoral and unjust? 

[d-boy15]

I guess it won't take long until pro-mage and pro-templar start a flame war...

[Daissran]

Nyneve wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

I think the Mages are the most right in principal, being that they are pretty much being persecuted for something completely beyond their control.

However, it's understandable that the populace would want some kind of protection against the immense power of magic.

There is middle ground, I believe. Keep phylacteries of all known mages so they can be tracked if they go abomination or blood mage. Have the Circles be mandatory schooling that teaches mages to control their magic, but don't lock them up. That pretty much encourages rebellion.

Something like this. I think the circles should all be self -regulating, not controlled by templars. Giving one group of people absolute power over another, marginalized, group is not a good idea and will always lead to abuse of that power (templars regularly beat/rape mages). And if mages were actually allowed to see their families and have their own, they would not be so quick to turn to blood magic, because they have something to lose.

Modifié par Daissran, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:15 .

[Eragon-]

After DA 2, I'm just gonna sit back and play my fiddle and watch them kill each other. I really don't give a **** about who's right if, both parties are gonna behave like unreasonable tweens.

[Former_Fiend]

KainD wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Self-interest is not just and moral.

So.. survival is immoral and unjust? 

I think what he's saying is that justice and morality simply do not enter into the discussion when talking about survival and self preservation, which is something I agree with.

Now, in real life I'm a staunch supporter of individual rights and liberties over the good of society.

If I lived in the dragon age world where magic and the threats posed by it were very real, then I'd change my tune. 

The circle system isn't about guilt or innocence, it isn't even about personal accountability. It's about the fact that at any given time, any given mage can be possessed and become a serious threat to everyone around them.

Is it fair? Is it just? No. But you know what the appropriete response to this is? Tough sh*t. That's the harsh reality of it.

Now, I'm not excusing the abuses that the templars commit, not by any means. It is very much a flawed system and one that needs to be held accountable for it's corruption. But at the end of the day it's the only system the people of Thedas have.