136 réponses à ce sujet

[Palidane]

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

[cjones91]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Extermination of the mages is silly, but letting them be free is just as silly. I agree with the Qun and the Circles. Keep the mages safe, keep the rest of the world safe.

Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.  

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Where the difference ultimately falls apart is that the kind of prejudice seen here in the real world is always wrong. In Dragon Age, they kind of have a valid point.

And it's not even the X-men argument of mages being unreasonably powerful. It's that each of them is a time bomb. At any given moment they could be taken over, absent their own free will, and slaughter everyone around them. And that's if something minor and blunt like a rage demon possesses them. A pride or desire demon could do much more damage subtly.

If it weren't for this aspect of Dragon Age lore, I'd actually be more inclined to agree with the mages. Give them their freedom and when one uses their powers to kill punish them just like any other criminal. But we're not talking about people who need to be held personally accountable for their actions, we're talking about people who, through no fault of their own, pose a very real threat to everyone around them. A threat that they seem to refuse to acknowledge.

Mages know they can be possessed,what they don't agree with is being treated like monsters just for having  magic.

[cjones91]

Palidane wrote...

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

Modifié par cjones91, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:50 .

[Gethrian]

I judge each Mages, Templars and any character in general individually for their deeds not what is their faction.

After DA2 I can't really fully support either Templars or Mages. I can understand why Templars want to keep Mages in check but I don't agree with their methods and some Templars are just too abusive. On other hand I can sympathise with Mages but then I constantly see them turn into blood mages and abominations. Doesn't inspire much to trust them with full freedom. So maybe something like what Jamie9 suggested would be my ideal compromise at the moment.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

No, I think the restrictions upon their freedoms should match their potential for destruction. Everytime this argument of "anyone is dangerous" comes up, I can't help but roll my eyes.
Point out to me a single non-magical human child who could destroy a village protected by knigths.
Because I can point out Connor.

[Palidane]

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

I bet knocking down that strawman made you feel like a badass.

[Kalas Magnus]

The templar/chantry is the right side. The mages are too powerful to have around the normals. But you cant kill them off completely because in time of war they are great to have around.

Plus you have to dismiss the entire kirkwall thing. Most templars arent rapists.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

No, I think the restrictions upon their freedoms should match their potential for destruction. Everytime this argument of "anyone is dangerous" comes up, I can't help but roll my eyes.
Point out to me a single non-magical human child who could destroy a village protected by knigths.
Because I can point out Connor.

Connor was one untrained mage whose mother picked a lousy apostate to teach him how to control his magic.Also I bet all the villages who are constantly attacked by bandits and raiders will disagree with you in regards of mages somehow being unstoppable killing machines that go on to kill countless ammounts of people.

[Si-Shen]

DA 2 was missing the "smack both sides up the side of the head" option XD

Honestly although I tend to be a bit more sympathetic towards the Mages, I note MANY of the mages we deal with tend to bring their own pain down on themselves. Templar's aren't any better, they come in heavy-handed and can't understand why people resist them.
I will be honest that in DA2, it had as much to do with the crazy Templar lady as the plight of the mages that made me choose the mages all the time.

[Former_Fiend]

cjones91 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Extermination of the mages is silly, but letting them be free is just as silly. I agree with the Qun and the Circles. Keep the mages safe, keep the rest of the world safe.

Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.  

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Where the difference ultimately falls apart is that the kind of prejudice seen here in the real world is always wrong. In Dragon Age, they kind of have a valid point.

And it's not even the X-men argument of mages being unreasonably powerful. It's that each of them is a time bomb. At any given moment they could be taken over, absent their own free will, and slaughter everyone around them. And that's if something minor and blunt like a rage demon possesses them. A pride or desire demon could do much more damage subtly.

If it weren't for this aspect of Dragon Age lore, I'd actually be more inclined to agree with the mages. Give them their freedom and when one uses their powers to kill punish them just like any other criminal. But we're not talking about people who need to be held personally accountable for their actions, we're talking about people who, through no fault of their own, pose a very real threat to everyone around them. A threat that they seem to refuse to acknowledge.

Mages know they can be possessed,what they don't agree with is being treated like monsters just for having  magic.

Mages know it can happen, but at least from what we've seen, the ones who are most strongly in favor of freedom from  the circle and the chantry seem recklessly dismissive about what a threat it poses.

[cjones91]

Palidane wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

I bet knocking down that strawman made you feel like a badass.

The point was mages aren't that different from normal people and if you hold them to a higher standard then you should do the same for everyone else.

[Navasha]

Palidane wrote...
Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

Nope, but I have seen a king declare war.   I have seen the Divine of the Chantry call down an exalted March.   Should these people of influence be locked up as well for the potential to cause great death and misery?

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

Most of the mages "flip out" BECAUSE of their oppression and mistreatment at the hands of the Templars.   Sorry, you will never convince me of this 'need to lockup people based only on their potential to do harm'.    Yes, mages have become dangerous, but the initial error and wrong-doing lies with the Chantry and their Templars.    Its since become a vicious cycle of wrong on both sides, but its still the Templars ever increasing abuse that drives the cycle. 

Modifié par Navasha, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:07 .

[cjones91]

Former_Fiend wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Extermination of the mages is silly, but letting them be free is just as silly. I agree with the Qun and the Circles. Keep the mages safe, keep the rest of the world safe.

Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.  

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Where the difference ultimately falls apart is that the kind of prejudice seen here in the real world is always wrong. In Dragon Age, they kind of have a valid point.

And it's not even the X-men argument of mages being unreasonably powerful. It's that each of them is a time bomb. At any given moment they could be taken over, absent their own free will, and slaughter everyone around them. And that's if something minor and blunt like a rage demon possesses them. A pride or desire demon could do much more damage subtly.

If it weren't for this aspect of Dragon Age lore, I'd actually be more inclined to agree with the mages. Give them their freedom and when one uses their powers to kill punish them just like any other criminal. But we're not talking about people who need to be held personally accountable for their actions, we're talking about people who, through no fault of their own, pose a very real threat to everyone around them. A threat that they seem to refuse to acknowledge.

Mages know they can be possessed,what they don't agree with is being treated like monsters just for having  magic.

Mages know it can happen, but at least from what we've seen, the ones who are most strongly in favor of freedom from  the circle and the chantry seem recklessly dismissive about what a threat it poses.

That's because they are sick of being treated like crap,how would you feel if a group treated you like some sort of monster because their religion said all people who have special talents were evil?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Neither are worth it but templars are terrible at their job. They can't even tell when there is a whole group of blood mages in their tower every time. Not to mention their taste in leader seems to suck lately.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[Palidane]

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

I bet knocking down that strawman made you feel like a badass.

The point was mages aren't that different from normal people and if you hold them to a higher standard then you should do the same for everyone else.

But that's freaking stupid. Sure, normal people can kill as well, but it's a different scale entirely. Yeah, if I wanted too, I could recruit an army of about 300 trained knights, earn the money for their upkeep, march the entire army to Redcliffe, engage in a protracted siege while also holding back reinforcements from Denerim, have morale hold together long enough to breach the walls of the keep, then engage in a viscious battle to clear the inside of the keep room by room. But I don't think it helps your case to say that it would take all that effort to match one untrained mage child.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
Connor was one untrained mage whose mother picked a lousy apostate to teach him how to control his magic.Also I bet all the villages who are constantly attacked by bandits and raiders will disagree with you in regards of mages somehow being unstoppable killing machines that go on to kill countless ammounts of people.

Training one's magic only helps prevent aciddental misuse of powers. It does nothing to deterr mages simply abusing their powers of their own volition. Only certainty of punishment or isolation do that.

And your second "argument" was just stupid.
1-The frequency of attack by bandits is not related at all to the potential for mages to become killing machines. So, villagers attacked by bandits could agree that non-mages are also dangerous; which is something I don't contest; but still believe mages to be extremely dangerous which they are.
2-A group of bandits is not quite the same as a single child. If a single magical child is capable of causing damage that would take a small army of non-magical adults armed and armored to accomplish, then it follows that mages are much more worthy of strict vigilance than non-mages.

It's why some countries keep strict watch over nuclear bombs while selling 9mm at convenience stores despite the fact a million 9mm in a million hands with a million bullets could also cause quite the damage.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:13 .

[Former_Fiend]

cjones91 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Extermination of the mages is silly, but letting them be free is just as silly. I agree with the Qun and the Circles. Keep the mages safe, keep the rest of the world safe.

Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.  

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Where the difference ultimately falls apart is that the kind of prejudice seen here in the real world is always wrong. In Dragon Age, they kind of have a valid point.

And it's not even the X-men argument of mages being unreasonably powerful. It's that each of them is a time bomb. At any given moment they could be taken over, absent their own free will, and slaughter everyone around them. And that's if something minor and blunt like a rage demon possesses them. A pride or desire demon could do much more damage subtly.

If it weren't for this aspect of Dragon Age lore, I'd actually be more inclined to agree with the mages. Give them their freedom and when one uses their powers to kill punish them just like any other criminal. But we're not talking about people who need to be held personally accountable for their actions, we're talking about people who, through no fault of their own, pose a very real threat to everyone around them. A threat that they seem to refuse to acknowledge.

Mages know they can be possessed,what they don't agree with is being treated like monsters just for having  magic.

Mages know it can happen, but at least from what we've seen, the ones who are most strongly in favor of freedom from  the circle and the chantry seem recklessly dismissive about what a threat it poses.

That's because they are sick of being treated like crap,how would you feel if a group treated you like some sort of monster because their religion said all people who have special talents were evil?

I'm not saying it's fair, I'm not saying it's just, and I'm not saying it's right. What I am saying is this; tough sh*t.

The harsh reality is that the mages are a threat. I don't blame them for it, I don't think they're monsters, and I don't think they're inherently evil. 

What I know is that they are constantly at risk of having their minds ripped open by horrors from beyond the viel of reality trying to get into our world which more often than not leaves a very high body count.

I don't expect them to lie down and take it, and if I was a mage, I'd certainly be struggling against it. But it is what it is. Mages aren't necessarily monsters, but each one is a doorway for monsters to enter the world. Those doors need to be contained.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Connor was one untrained mage whose mother picked a lousy apostate to teach him how to control his magic.Also I bet all the villages who are constantly attacked by bandits and raiders will disagree with you in regards of mages somehow being unstoppable killing machines that go on to kill countless ammounts of people.

Training one's magic only helps prevent aciddental misuse of powers. It does nothing to deterr mages simply abusing their powers of their own volition. Only certainty of punishment or isolation do that.

And your second "argument" was just stupid.
1-The frequency of attack by bandits is not related at all to the potential for mages to become killing machines. So, villagers attacked by bandits could agree that non-mages are also dangerous; which is something I don't contest; but still believe mages to be extremely dangerous which they are.
2-A group of bandits is not quite the same as a single child. If a single magical child is capable of causing damage that would take a small army of non-magical adults armed and armored to accomplish, then it follows that mages are much more worthy of strict vigilance than non-mages.

It's why some countries keep strict watch over nuclear bombs while selling 9mm at convenience stores despite the fact a million 9mm in a million hands with a million bullets could also cause quite the damage.

My second argument is not stupid because those people will not give a damn who was attacking whether the attacker is a mage or mundane.

[esper]

Navasha wrote...

Palidane wrote...
Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

Nope, but I have seen a king declare war.   I have seen the Divine of the Chantry call down an exalted March.   Should these people of influence be locked up as well for the potential to cause great death and misery?

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

Most of the mages "flip out" BECAUSE of their oppression and mistreatment at the hands of the Templars.   Sorry, you will never convince me of this 'need to lockup people based only on their potential to do harm'.    Yes, mages have become dangerous, but the initial error and wrong-doing lies with the Chantry and their Templars.    Its since become a vicious cycle of wrong on both sides, but its still the Templars ever increasing abuse that drives the cycle. 

To add to Navasha's point... If you seperates mages and mundanes, mages have no reason to see themselves as a part of normal humanity and thus looses any reason of not going just killing people with their mind and not just giving in to the demons when corned.

After all if someone has been told all their life that they are not human, why should they care for the rest of humanity?

The only thing that can keep mages in check is that mages are a part of ordinary society. If mages have mundane fathers, mothers, lovers, children (and this can happen) and friends the non-criminal/non-craxy will be just as invested as the mundanes in keeping the bad apples in check. It is the only solution that will work long term.

[cjones91]

Palidane wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Navasha wrote...
Unfortunately, its that kind of thinking that lead to Japanese American internment camps during WWII.   For me, people have the right to exist free and of their own choosing.   That freedom should only be ended by society where there is PROOF that an individual has voluntarily infringed upon another person.   

In that case then the society should come down hard and fast.   Imprisonment or death are then viable options to both remove the problem and serve as a deterrent to others who would consider harming others.

Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

So you think mages should be treated like monsters instead?Maybe you should also lock up anyone who likes playing with fire since a single person with a torch can burn a entire village down.A crazed soilder with decades of training can take out dozens of people just like any crazed mage so maybe every soilder with PTSD should be locked up for life too.

I bet knocking down that strawman made you feel like a badass.

The point was mages aren't that different from normal people and if you hold them to a higher standard then you should do the same for everyone else.

But that's freaking stupid. Sure, normal people can kill as well, but it's a different scale entirely. Yeah, if I wanted too, I could recruit an army of about 300 trained knights, earn the money for their upkeep, march the entire army to Redcliffe, engage in a protracted siege while also holding back reinforcements from Denerim, have morale hold together long enough to breach the walls of the keep, then engage in a viscious battle to clear the inside of the keep room by room. But I don't think it helps your case to say that it would take all that effort to match one untrained mage child.

It's the same ****ing thing!Does a mugging victim care whether the mugger is black or white,if they have a knife or gun,shotgun or hunting rifle etc;?No they don't,so what difference does it make if a mage attacks a town or a small band of higly trained soilders does it?The victims will not give a damn about that other than the fact they were attacked.

[Palidane]

Navasha wrote...

Palidane wrote...
Hey, have you ever seen a Japanese guy burn a man to death with his fingers? Or maybe turn into a city detroying abomination after blowing a will save? No? Didn't think so.

Nope, but I have seen a king declare war.   I have seen the Divine of the Chantry call down an exalted March.   Should these people of influence be locked up as well for the potential to cause great death and misery?

Oh my God. Would you peopkle stop saying that? That comparison makes zero sense, but I see people whip it out all the time, like they think it's some guaranteed arguement killer.

A lot of stuff has to go down in order for an Exalted March to happen. First, you have to get a Divine with the audacity to call one, then you have to make sure her advisors don't talk her down, then you have to make sure her advisors don't give up and replace her, then you have to make sure the other side doesn't hire some Antivan Crows to finish it.

You have to have Kings willing to give their soldiers to the Chantry. These soldiers have to be mustered, armed, trained, paid. They have to agree to serve the Divine instead of just deserting into the night. All these armies have to march Maker knows how many miles to the enemy, then they have to have enough force to beat the enemy. If the Divine orders them to slaughter some civillians, that order has to filter through the entire chain of command, where every person can stop it just by 'losing' some paperwork. A hell of a lot of stuff has to go right in order for any of the stuff you claim to happen.

Now what does it take for a mage to become an Abomination? One bad day. One blown will save. Do you see the disconnect in your analogy?

Even if you don't, consider this: There are about a dozen Kings in Thedas, and thousands of mages.

"right to life and freedom" is all great and stuff, until people start dying. You cannot treat mages like normal people and hope it works out, because mages are not normal. When a normal guy flips, he grabs a sword and kills three people before the town watch kills him. When a mage flips, hundreds die until the Templars can show up in force. 

Most of the mages "flip out" BECAUSE of their oppression and mistreatment at the hands of the Templars.   Sorry, you will never convince me of this 'need to lockup people based only on their potential to do harm'.    Yes, mages have become dangerous, but the initial error and wrong-doing lies with the Chantry and their Templars.    Its since become a vicious cycle of wrong on both sides, but its still the Templars ever increasing abuse that drives the cycle. 

That still changes nothing. I don't like the Templars, I think they have failed in their duties, but that doesn't change the facts. There will still be mages who desire power, and there will still be weak mages, and they will have to be dealth with.

[MisterJB]

Navasha wrote...
Most of the mages "flip out" BECAUSE of their oppression and mistreatment at the hands of the Templars.   Sorry, you will never convince me of this 'need to lockup people based only on their potential to do harm'.    Yes, mages have become dangerous, but the initial error and wrong-doing lies with the Chantry and their Templars.    Its since become a vicious cycle of wrong on both sides, but its still the Templars ever increasing abuse that drives the cycle. 

If I really want to, I could take this back a thousand years and claim, and rightly so, that the only reason Andrastian culture is anti-magic it's because it was exablished by people who lived under the opression of Tevinter and had to fight to free themselves of it. Therefore, the mages started it. And Tevinter is still there as a cautionary tale of what happens when mages are given freedom.

Anyway even if we were to accept that people only do evil under extreme circunstances; which is not true; life is very, very hard and full of temptations. Templars are not the only source of distress in the world.
We have already seen mages like Connor and Quentin who abused their powers because of a simple fact of life like the death of a loved one. What happens the next time a mage's son is sick and the only cure is a blood magic ritual that kills every other child in the city?

And that is not even mentioning the simple fact that magic gives one power over others and that many; such as, well, every mage in Tevinter; are not strong enough to resist it.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...
My second argument is not stupid because those people will not give a damn who was attacking whether the attacker is a mage or mundane.

Yes, there is no true difference between a mugging done by a mage or a non-mage.

On the other hand, a non-magical child could never do what Connor did to Redcliff. It would take a small army of non-magical adults armed and armored.
If it takes a small army to do what Connor did, then they are not equivalent. And thus, there is more reason to watch mages than non-mages.
Is it that hard to understand?

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:29 .