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[Dr. Doctor]

Aveline says herself that the Kirkwall Templars aren't like the Order that Wesley showed her. Judging from individuals like Ser Maurevar Carver and Thrask there are moderate Templars, it's just that we've seen a lot of insane or extremist ones.

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Can you actually prove the Ancient Tevinter Magisters created and unleashed the Darkspawn?And don't give me that Chantry BS because they have every reason to demonize mages.Corypheus claims the Black City was already black by the time they got there so Tevinter did'nt create the Blight.

Of course keep blaming the currrent generation of mages for something that happened a thousand years ago because that's all you Pro Templars ever do, while ignoring the abuses commited by mundanes over the years.

The darkspawn only appeared after Corypheus' and crew's Fade trip. If the darkspawn predated the magisters trip a few Old Gods should've been tainted by then.

There are also dwarven records that claim the darkspawn appeared from underground one day which would contradict the Chantry's story of mages unleashing the Blight &Darkspawn upon the world.The thing is nobody knows how the darkspawn came to be,but the Chantry spreads it's story around like it's actual fact when it's more than likely BS used to keep mages under the Chantry's control.

The dwarves have no idea where the darkspawn came from. There is nothing in their account that actually contradicts anything the Chantry believes. Corypheus doesn't say the Black City was already black whehn he got there but even if it was that still means he and his peers started the Blights.

Orlais' "history" of conquering nations weakened by the Blight happened only once so far, and I should point out on an occasion where Tevinter did the same exact thing with them. Tevinter has conquered more nations, destroyed more culture, enslaved more people, abused more downtrodden than Orlais ever has.

And no I'm not saying Orlais never did anything morally reprehensible, but every bad thing Orlais has ever done, Tevinter has done worse. Even the gap between the mostly corrupt higher classes and downtrodden lower classes sounds much greater in Tevinter than Orlais.

In response to the OP though, personally I think whether the templars or mages are right I think is something that depends on the specific circumstances, which to me means it's probably a good example of a grey conflict. I think most people have a clearer opnion though.  In the most general sense I think templars are necessarily, but the scenario that was constructed at the end of DA 2 with Meredith and Orsino clearly put the mages in the right, imo. In fact it was far too easy of a decision. Hopefully, it wouldn't be as easy in DAI.

Bioware usually tries to create morally grey choices, but if BSN is anything to go by, the fans REALLY don't like that. In both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age forums, most of the arguments are so determined to paint any issue from the games (most of which are clearly designed to be morally ambiguous) as ABSOLUTELY black and white and anyone who is on the opposte side of the  "correct" perspective is simply pro-evil.

Orlais has done more than conquer one country when they are weakened during blights,hell they don't even have to wait for a blight to happen since Orlais will just sit in a country until the time to invade comes.Like I said before Orlais is Tevinter's hyprocritical brother who tries to act all righteous but in reality he is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as his older brother.The difference between the two nations is one tries to hide who they are by putting on airs and fake smiles while a knife is behind their back.

[David7204]

Yep.

Sure am.

[Wissenschaft]

cjones91 wrote...
Orlais has done more than conquer one country when they are weakened during blights,hell they don't even have to wait for a blight to happen since Orlais will just sit in a country until the time to invade comes.Like I said before Orlais is Tevinter's hyprocritical brother who tries to act all righteous but in reality he is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as his older brother.The difference between the two nations is one tries to hide who they are by putting on airs and fake smiles while a knife is behind their back.

 

The irony here is that Tevinter is the more honest country...... lol 

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 09 septembre 2013 - 02:01 .

[Wissenschaft]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Aveline says herself that the Kirkwall Templars aren't like the Order that Wesley showed her. Judging from individuals like Ser Maurevar Carver and Thrask there are moderate Templars, it's just that we've seen a lot of insane or extremist ones.

 

If Kirkwall had more moderate templars then the mage/templar war might not have happened. Of course we are going to see the worst of both side when everything is falling apart. Kirkwall was full of blood mages and overzealous templars. 

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 09 septembre 2013 - 02:03 .

[cjones91]

Wissenschaft wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Orlais has done more than conquer one country when they are weakened during blights,hell they don't even have to wait for a blight to happen since Orlais will just sit in a country until the time to invade comes.Like I said before Orlais is Tevinter's hyprocritical brother who tries to act all righteous but in reality he is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as his older brother.The difference between the two nations is one tries to hide who they are by putting on airs and fake smiles while a knife is behind their back.

 

The irony here is that Tevinter is the more honest country...... lol 

Agreed,hell Orlais even has their own version of what magisters do to keep power with the Grand Game.

[someguy1231]

David7204 wrote...

Yep.

Sure am.

That's a pretty bold statement coming from someone who has admitted to never playing any of the Dragon Age games.

[Kalas Magnus]

did he really?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

cjones91 wrote...
Orlais has done more than conquer one country when they are weakened during blights,hell they don't even have to wait for a blight to happen since Orlais will just sit in a country until the time to invade comes.Like I said before Orlais is Tevinter's hyprocritical brother who tries to act all righteous but in reality he is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as his older brother.The difference between the two nations is one tries to hide who they are by putting on airs and fake smiles while a knife is behind their back.

Nope it only happened after the Third Blight. Orlais and Tevinter divided the Free Marches between them after  destroying Toth. Orlais took over the then city state of Nevarra and Tevinter took Hunter Fell.

Aside from that Orlais has conquered Ferelden and the Dales (which was essentially a counterattack) and installed a Viscount in Kirkwall after liberating it from Qunari rule. They also fought over swaths of territory on the border with Nevarra.

Tevinter has conquered, Arlathan, Rivain, the Anderfels (twice), Seheron, Starkhaven, and all the lands that would later become Ferelden, The Free Marches, Antiva and I think even Orlais. Every nation in Thedas except Par Vollen was at one point under Tevinter subjugation. The Imperium is also literally built on the blood of slaves. Orlais is not.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 09 septembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Orlais has done more than conquer one country when they are weakened during blights,hell they don't even have to wait for a blight to happen since Orlais will just sit in a country until the time to invade comes.Like I said before Orlais is Tevinter's hyprocritical brother who tries to act all righteous but in reality he is just as corrupt and morally bankrupt as his older brother.The difference between the two nations is one tries to hide who they are by putting on airs and fake smiles while a knife is behind their back.

Nope it only happened after the Third Blight. Orlais and Tevinter divided the Free Marches between them after  destroying Toth. Orlais took over the then city state of Nevarra and Tevinter took Hunter Fell.

Aside from that Orlais has conquered Ferelden and the Dales (which was essentially a counterattack) and installed a Viscount in Kirkwall after liberating it from Qunari rule. They also fought over swaths of territory on the border with Nevarra.

Tevinter has conquered, Arlathan, Rivain, the Anderfels (twice), Seheron, Starkhaven, and all the lands that would later become Ferelden, The Free Marches, Antiva and I think even Orlais. Every nation in Thedas except Par Vollen was at one point under Tevinter subjugation. The Imperium is also literally built on the blood of slaves. Orlais is not.

They still share the same culture except one has magic and slaves while the other uses servants in order to avoid being called slavers.They still share the same decadent society where all the nobles do anything to get ahead except Orlesians don't have magic,what they do have is personal assassins who are trained to do anything to eliminate their targets including having sex with them.

They both care nothing for the lower classes and it's been shown chevaliers and nobles aren't above raping women or keeping young elven girls as sex slaves.

Both Orlais and Tevinter are from the same corrupt and rotting tree and it's pointless to argue otherwise.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

No, they are not the same and it is pointless to argue that they are. Tevinter has so many slaves that the Imperium would collapse without it. In Ancient times they used to sacrifice them by the hundreds just to build buildings. Orlais does not have that many slaves nor do they treat them as badly. The very same codex that says that Orlais has "servants" also says that they are usually treated well and that Tevinter is by far the "greatest" customer of the slave trade.

Ferelden's nobles aren't above raping elves or peasants either. That doesn't mean they are as corrupt or decadent as Orlais or Tevinter. The Imperium also has a much larger underclass because it includes all non mages. Even the codex entries mention the Imeprium's corruption more often than the codex entry on The Orlesian Empire. Under Celene, the laws against slavery have begun to be more enforced. The Archon who outlawed slavery in the Imperium was immediately asssinated.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 09 septembre 2013 - 03:45 .

[CELL55]

cjones91 wrote...

They still share the same culture except one has magic and slaves while the other uses servants in order to avoid being called slavers.They still share the same decadent society where all the nobles do anything to get ahead except Orlesians don't have magic,what they do have is personal assassins who are trained to do anything to eliminate their targets including having sex with them.

They both care nothing for the lower classes and it's been shown chevaliers and nobles aren't above raping women or keeping young elven girls as sex slaves.

Both Orlais and Tevinter are from the same corrupt and rotting tree and it's pointless to argue otherwise.

What is this I don't even...
This is like saying the Aztecs and British have the same culture because they both once had absolute monarchs.
Orlesian servants aren't anything like Tevinter slaves, as a quick trip to the wiki would show.
And while they both have a certain amount of decadence in their societies, every society does. What matters is how the are decadent and how much.