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Wulfram wrote...
The depiction of Warriors in the video and in DA2 is nothing in the vicinity of badass normal. It's straight up superhuman.
jontepwn wrote...
Maybe her shield has special gate-smashing properties?
Seeker Shield of Gate Smashing Extreme
+50 Defense
+70 Health
+90000 Gate Smashing Damage
Honestly, it didn't really bother me. For me it seemed like a new way of manipulating the environment and to open up new paths. And that's always cool.
Former_Fiend wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
The depiction of Warriors in the video and in DA2 is nothing in the vicinity of badass normal. It's straight up superhuman.
The depiction of warriors in the entire dragon age franchise is straight up superhuman, as dozens of examples have been pointed out in this thread.
Though in truth, I've honestly never seen a badass normal who wasn't technically superhuman.
immhey wrote...
Zu Long wrote...
immhey wrote...
It would be fine if DA as a serie established itself as a really high fantasy like WarCraft. A warrior in WarCraft doing that wouldn't disturb people. DA:O established itself as more to the ground RPG.
No, it didn't. I'm going to quote myself from earlier:*Sigh* People need to get over this notion that Dragon Age is some kind
of Medieval Simulation. It's not. It's NEVER been that way. As people
have pointed out, DA:O had plenty of completely unrealistic facets. My
100lbs soaking wet city elf warrior that you see in my profile picture
ran around in heavy armor, and could fling whole groups of armored
enemies through the air using a two-handed maul that was BIGGER THAN SHE
WAS. She could stun Dragons and Ogres who outweighed her by orders of
magnitude by pommel striking them.
To me? All of this was
awesome. I deliberately played as a warrior elf in part for the hilarity
of this tiny woman running around beating up fantasy monsters. I
realize that isn't to everyone's taste, but don't pretend like this is
some kind of shift on Bioware's part. They firmly set themselves here
from the very beginning.
People have also mentioned survival of unsurvivable attacks, like a dragon picking you up in its jaws and shaking you like a ragdoll.
The things you mentioned are actually not really that over the top in RPG world. Realistic or not is not the problem here. It's just that there's a line that DA:O set as far as the theme of the series go.
The fact that people who played DA:O noticed the flashiness in the video kinda proves that it is indeen over the top. In DA:O you could fight dragons and all but you never perform a next level of unbelieveable move like earthshattering move in the video. You will notice that in DA:O, most attack skills of warrior are just simple art of using weapons.
I actually agree with you, but I still think taking down a metal gate with a shield bash is pushing it.In Exile wrote...
immhey wrote...
The fact that people who played DA:O noticed the flashiness in the video kinda proves that it is indeen over the top. In DA:O you could fight dragons and all but you never perform a next level of unbelieveable move like earthshattering move in the video. You will notice that in DA:O, most attack skills of warrior are just simple art of using weapons.
In DA:O, you could shatter barricades with a single slash of your sword, and they exploded into pieces. You also had a rockshattered talent for your 2Her, called "shattering blows" which gave you bonus damange to the made-entirely-out-of-rock golems.
immhey wrote...
Former_Fiend wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
The depiction of Warriors in the video and in DA2 is nothing in the vicinity of badass normal. It's straight up superhuman.
The depiction of warriors in the entire dragon age franchise is straight up superhuman, as dozens of examples have been pointed out in this thread.
Though in truth, I've honestly never seen a badass normal who wasn't technically superhuman.
There are different levels of superhuman.
Allan Schumacher wrote...
Depends on how high up the meteros are falling from, doesn`t it? She is just summoning them out of thin air some place above the enemy.
No, it would depend on how fast they are moving at the point of impact, and how much mass they have. With those values we can determine the momentum and the kinetic energy contained and go from there. But I suspect no one really wants to start busting out the math.
Unfortunately, the game series has always been one that sees some disconnect between the Lore and how the Gameplay plays out. Sometimes for tech reasons (not being able to do horned Qunari with the first game), sometimes because we aim to just make something more fun. And unfortunately, for myself as a gamer, I can see the fun in having an ability like this.
Mostly because it provides a choice for me as a gamer. It informs me that "some obstacles may be passable when it's not immediately obvious." It shows that how I spec a character can open up different paths for my party. These things are things I consider valuable in my RPGs.
Yes, no decision will make everyone happy, and if this is a situation of us just taking things too far for you to support, then that's the way it is and it's fair of you to think that. Do what you think is right for yourself. But given that similar actions like these have historically existed in Dragon Age games, stuff like this will very likely still be in the final game.
On some level I agree with the notion that games are about fans and developers both starting from their spot and meeting somewhere in the middle. If a player and game can find that meeting spot, they'll probably enjoy the game, but if not then that becomes less likely.
RPGs are pretty common for this sort of logical inconsistency, and personally I don't really see it as a negative either. In a cutscene a quick hit with a single arrow or a murder knife results in death. If we wanted consistency in the lore, it would seem like we'd actually require hacking away at someone, which I do not think is necessary.
If you're seeing this as some reason to toss out the "awesome button" pejorative, however, then it seems like the DA series has always contained the "awesome button" because this stuff has always existed in the game.
We try to make the games and gameplay interesting and fun. Obviously, what works for some people may not work for all people.
Zu Long wrote...
immhey wrote...
Zu Long wrote...
immhey wrote...
It would be fine if DA as a serie established itself as a really high fantasy like WarCraft. A warrior in WarCraft doing that wouldn't disturb people. DA:O established itself as more to the ground RPG.
No, it didn't. I'm going to quote myself from earlier:*Sigh* People need to get over this notion that Dragon Age is some kind
of Medieval Simulation. It's not. It's NEVER been that way. As people
have pointed out, DA:O had plenty of completely unrealistic facets. My
100lbs soaking wet city elf warrior that you see in my profile picture
ran around in heavy armor, and could fling whole groups of armored
enemies through the air using a two-handed maul that was BIGGER THAN SHE
WAS. She could stun Dragons and Ogres who outweighed her by orders of
magnitude by pommel striking them.
To me? All of this was
awesome. I deliberately played as a warrior elf in part for the hilarity
of this tiny woman running around beating up fantasy monsters. I
realize that isn't to everyone's taste, but don't pretend like this is
some kind of shift on Bioware's part. They firmly set themselves here
from the very beginning.
People have also mentioned survival of unsurvivable attacks, like a dragon picking you up in its jaws and shaking you like a ragdoll.
The things you mentioned are actually not really that over the top in RPG world. Realistic or not is not the problem here. It's just that there's a line that DA:O set as far as the theme of the series go.
The fact that people who played DA:O noticed the flashiness in the video kinda proves that it is indeen over the top. In DA:O you could fight dragons and all but you never perform a next level of unbelieveable move like earthshattering move in the video. You will notice that in DA:O, most attack skills of warrior are just simple art of using weapons.
In DA:O, you could do things like fling entire groups of people back using the sweep attack. That is actually physically impossible. Staggering things many times larger than you with pommel strike and shield bash is physically impossible. Shattering wooden barricades into kindling with a sword is physically impossible.
The fact that people are only now noticing this stuff seems to ME to prove that people are looking for things to nitpick/complain about.
slimgrin wrote...
jontepwn wrote...
Maybe her shield has special gate-smashing properties?
Seeker Shield of Gate Smashing Extreme
+50 Defense
+70 Health
+90000 Gate Smashing Damage
Honestly, it didn't really bother me. For me it seemed like a new way of manipulating the environment and to open up new paths. And that's always cool.
Making it a magical shield with bashing properties would be a nice touch.
immhey wrote...
There are different levels of superhuman.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:58 .
Zu Long wrote...
immhey wrote...
Zu Long wrote...
immhey wrote...
It would be fine if DA as a serie established itself as a really high fantasy like WarCraft. A warrior in WarCraft doing that wouldn't disturb people. DA:O established itself as more to the ground RPG.
No, it didn't. I'm going to quote myself from earlier:*Sigh* People need to get over this notion that Dragon Age is some kind
of Medieval Simulation. It's not. It's NEVER been that way. As people
have pointed out, DA:O had plenty of completely unrealistic facets. My
100lbs soaking wet city elf warrior that you see in my profile picture
ran around in heavy armor, and could fling whole groups of armored
enemies through the air using a two-handed maul that was BIGGER THAN SHE
WAS. She could stun Dragons and Ogres who outweighed her by orders of
magnitude by pommel striking them.
To me? All of this was
awesome. I deliberately played as a warrior elf in part for the hilarity
of this tiny woman running around beating up fantasy monsters. I
realize that isn't to everyone's taste, but don't pretend like this is
some kind of shift on Bioware's part. They firmly set themselves here
from the very beginning.
People have also mentioned survival of unsurvivable attacks, like a dragon picking you up in its jaws and shaking you like a ragdoll.
The things you mentioned are actually not really that over the top in RPG world. Realistic or not is not the problem here. It's just that there's a line that DA:O set as far as the theme of the series go.
The fact that people who played DA:O noticed the flashiness in the video kinda proves that it is indeen over the top. In DA:O you could fight dragons and all but you never perform a next level of unbelieveable move like earthshattering move in the video. You will notice that in DA:O, most attack skills of warrior are just simple art of using weapons.
In DA:O, you could do things like fling entire groups of people back using the sweep attack. That is actually physically impossible. Staggering things many times larger than you with pommel strike and shield bash is physically impossible. Shattering wooden barricades into kindling with a sword is physically impossible.
The fact that people are only now noticing this stuff seems to ME to prove that people are looking for things to nitpick/complain about.
I never claimed that BW promised that ("realistic medieval combat"). I am even stating that it is not about realism. Read what you quoted before reversing my post.Zu Long wrote...
I've looked around, but I haven't found the part where Bioware stated "realistic medieval combat" as one of their selling points for DA:I.AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I think the OP has a point. It's not about realism, but about the illusion of a believable world. BW mentioned that the over the top combat would be reduced, but with scenes like the crushing of that gate, it seems to be back like never before.
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:58 .
Former_Fiend wrote...
The depiction of warriors in the entire dragon age franchise is straight up superhuman, as dozens of examples have been pointed out in this thread.
Modifié par esper, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:57 .
Rawgrim wrote...
Wich means it should also work against humans. Especially if they are wearing metal.
esper wrote...
I don't quite see the problem as both warrior and rouges are superhuman in da. They were in da:o, da:a and da2. Combat have never pretended to be realistic. I think the video mentioned that Cassandra was specced to be able to break thing, which I think is a much more interesting aspect.
Face of Evil wrote...
immhey wrote...
There are different levels of superhuman.
Dragon Age heroes have always been roughly at the level of LOTR, a setting where Aragon, Gimli and Legolas can run for days without tiring and Boromir can get shot with five or six arrows and still slaughter about forty orcs.
The gate-smashing is walking the line, but I wouldn't say it's gone over it yet.
Herr Uhl wrote...
Rawgrim wrote...
Wich means it should also work against humans. Especially if they are wearing metal.
Not really, unless the humans are up against a wall. Humans tend to fly back before shattering.
Rawgrim wrote...
esper wrote...
I don't quite see the problem as both warrior and rouges are superhuman in da. They were in da:o, da:a and da2. Combat have never pretended to be realistic. I think the video mentioned that Cassandra was specced to be able to break thing, which I think is a much more interesting aspect.
If you hit a metal door with such a force, you should be able to hit people with it too. This makes it overpowered.
Modifié par esper, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:59 .
The Hierophant wrote...
Unless Cassandra is the Captain America of Thedas then what's the point of building gates that fit warriors could easily destroy? If Cassandra's strength is not the norm, is it lyrium or magic?
If Cassandra's level of strength is attained by eating Wheaties and doing pushups then Hawke or the Warden should've been capable of smashing locked doors, and treasure chests with ease. Riordan should've survived his fall with broken legs, and arms as superhuman strength is usually paired with durability. If Cassandra didn't have super durability her arms should've been mangled after the deed.
For me this isn't a case of superhuman abilities being improbable but it's consistency in relation to what's been established. Shoot, super strength would've been useful with all those looked doors in DA2.
immhey wrote...
As I said earlier that it's not a problem with realism here. Yes, the sweep attack does more damage than real human would be able to but it's just a sweep attack. The ground doesn't splited apart, The people who got hit don't explode into pieces. There are different levels of unbelieveable stuff in fantasy. I don't know how you couldn't tell the difference. For example Final Fantasy and The Witcher.
Modifié par Zu Long, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:59 .
Rawgrim wrote...
Herr Uhl wrote...
Rawgrim wrote...
Wich means it should also work against humans. Especially if they are wearing metal.
Not really, unless the humans are up against a wall. Humans tend to fly back before shattering.
It would still kill them. Unless the human body can take more damage in a single blow than a castle gate can.
Rawgrim wrote...
esper wrote...
I don't quite see the problem as both warrior and rouges are superhuman in da. They were in da:o, da:a and da2. Combat have never pretended to be realistic. I think the video mentioned that Cassandra was specced to be able to break thing, which I think is a much more interesting aspect.
If you hit a metal door with such a force, you should be able to hit people with it too. This makes it overpowered.
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