341 réponses à ce sujet

[Anfauglith5]

I think that move should "just" open the gate by destroying the lock...
It's would be the same thing for gameplay but it would look far les over the top.

[Rawgrim]

lady_v23 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yes. But aparantly Cassandra is just as strong as those dragons are. So she should kill anything with one blow too, no?

This thread is dangerously close to being locked if people are just going to start using the arguments used against them as counter arguments back at the people (something that happens WAY too often on this forum as it is).

It's pretty evident that the poster is OKAY with the mechanic in Dragons, and your response conveys and impression that you're not actually understanding what they said. After getting snappy at people for "not reading your posts" this type of behaviour really frustrates me.

It gives the impression that you're just seeking to be argumentative, at this point.

When I have to explain my points to the same person 3 times, Its just as frustrating. Belive me. But yes, I agree with you on the Dragon post. My bad. Sorry.

I am not arguing just to be argumentative. Not my intent at all. If I come across that way, its probably because I tend to sound blunt when I write in english. My bad, though. i need to improve on it.


Simple solution to the issue: Make wooden doors breakable by bashing. Metal doors needs grenades or magic. that way rogues and mages gets something to do when we run into locked doors too.

Your problem is pretty much the gate thing then?  Not the warriors smashing the ground or the mages teleporting or the warriors yanking an enemy with a chain( no idea what it is)

Yes. 2 quick jabs, and a castle gate goes down. If she had fought for the orcs at Helm`s Deep they would have won i 5 mins.

The ground smashing is abit wierd too, but its not the topic of the thread.

Someone yanking someone else towards them with a chain doesn`t seem very unrealistic. Allthough it would be cool if strong enemies were able to resist the yank.

[Savber100]

Rawgrim wrote...


I am not arguing just to be argumentative. Not my intent at all. If I come across that way, its probably because I tend to sound blunt when I write in english. My bad, though. i need to improve on it.


Simple solution to the issue: Make wooden doors breakable by bashing. Metal doors needs grenades or magic. that way rogues and mages gets something to do when we run into locked doors too.

Naw man.. people on the BSN just enjoy their drama. 


To bolded statement: YES. THAT WORKS FOR ME. 

Heck it would be even better if you make it a RACIAL thing. Only qunari or dwarves could pull it off. 

If not, make each race have different way to take it on. Elves and humans can only get through if they brought Iron Bull or a mage with them. Qunari inquistor can just smash it in. Dwarf Inquistor can deploy explosives etc.

There is an opportunity here. 

Modifié par Savber100, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:30 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Sejborg wrote...

Are you trying to tell me that there will be puzzles instead of gate smashing in the final game?

I'm saying that your expectation for us to change flow and shift into a puzzle to show how we can stop and think isn't grounded in reality.  It's an imaginary solution that you think is acceptable, but in practice is not, because you're failing to understand the logistics of creating a demo that fits within an allotted time slot and the challenges that come simply because playing a game and watching someone else play the game is not the same thing.

[Ecmoose]

crimzontearz wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Hitpoints are an abstraction.  OK, people aren't actually fighting like that but it would be annoying if you'd just die to a lucky roll.

But I don't see what smashing through a metal door can be an abstraction for.  I don't see how I can take it any way other than literally.  When I tell the story of how the Inquisitor took back the fort, I don't see what tale I can tell of that apart from "Cassandra smashed through the metal door".

Does smashing through a metal door really make the story less fantastic then "and then Vivienne rained fire from the sky?"

verisimilitude is important

Unfortunately that also leads to fantasy games often seeing over powered magic users, with melee fighters unable to keep up aside from being meat shields.

Developers are often challenged with making melee characters feel as competitive as magic users for utility and tactical use. Having warriors be able to assume awesome feats of strength allows them to remain competitive with seemingly endless uses of magic.

[Uccio]

lady_v23 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yes. But aparantly Cassandra is just as strong as those dragons are. So she should kill anything with one blow too, no?

This thread is dangerously close to being locked if people are just going to start using the arguments used against them as counter arguments back at the people (something that happens WAY too often on this forum as it is).

It's pretty evident that the poster is OKAY with the mechanic in Dragons, and your response conveys and impression that you're not actually understanding what they said. After getting snappy at people for "not reading your posts" this type of behaviour really frustrates me.

It gives the impression that you're just seeking to be argumentative, at this point.

When I have to explain my points to the same person 3 times, Its just as frustrating. Belive me. But yes, I agree with you on the Dragon post. My bad. Sorry.

I am not arguing just to be argumentative. Not my intent at all. If I come across that way, its probably because I tend to sound blunt when I write in english. My bad, though. i need to improve on it.


Simple solution to the issue: Make wooden doors breakable by bashing. Metal doors needs grenades or magic. that way rogues and mages gets something to do when we run into locked doors too.

Your problem is pretty much the gate thing then?  Not the warriors smashing the ground or the mages teleporting or the warriors yanking an enemy with a chain( no idea what it is)

I actually have problem with all of those abilities. With the exception of mage teleporting, it is magic so why not. 
I had a vague feeling of a game that all those warrior abilities. And it was not a rpg. It just goes into the awesome button category and I do not like to see it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Your problem is pretty much the gate thing then? Not the warriors smashing the ground or the mages teleporting or the warriors yanking an enemy with a chain( no idea what it is)

Rawgrim's issue is that, while he doesn't like those things, this new thing is just one more thing that he doesn't want, and he sees it as a particularly egregious thing as well.

[crimzontearz]

Ecmoose wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Hitpoints are an abstraction.  OK, people aren't actually fighting like that but it would be annoying if you'd just die to a lucky roll.

But I don't see what smashing through a metal door can be an abstraction for.  I don't see how I can take it any way other than literally.  When I tell the story of how the Inquisitor took back the fort, I don't see what tale I can tell of that apart from "Cassandra smashed through the metal door".

Does smashing through a metal door really make the story less fantastic then "and then Vivienne rained fire from the sky?"

verisimilitude is important

Unfortunately that also leads to fantasy games often seeing over powered magic users, with melee fighters unable to keep up aside from being meat shields.

Developers are often challenged with making melee characters feel as competitive as magic users for utility and tactical use. Having warriors be able to assume awesome feats of strength allows them to remain competitive with seemingly endless uses of magic.

well it depends on the system you are playing. The NWOD games for instance are very balanced, true porting them to a videogame would be neigh impossible BUT they are balanced (the OWOD games were uber imbalanced)

and straight up melee fighters are well balanced too in those games as well....tho they are not VERY high fantasy at all

Modifié par crimzontearz, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:34 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes. 2 quick jabs, and a castle gate goes down. If she had fought for the orcs at Helm`s Deep they would have won i 5 mins.

Is there a quantity of hits that would have made it more palatable for you?

[Wulfram]

Zu Long wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Hitpoints are an abstraction.  OK, people aren't actually fighting like that but it would be annoying if you'd just die to a lucky roll.

But I don't see what smashing through a metal door can be an abstraction for.  I don't see how I can take it any way other than literally.  When I tell the story of how the Inquisitor took back the fort, I don't see what tale I can tell of that apart from "Cassandra smashed through the metal door".

Does smashing through a metal door really make the story more fantastic then "and then Vivienne rained fire from the sky?"

The story is supposed to be fantastic, it's fantasy, but it's also supposed to make sense according to it's internal logic.

Vivienne reigning fire makes sense because she's a mage.  Mages do that sort of thing.  If Cassandra was a superhuman mutant with the strength of 10 men, then that would be different.

[Zu Long]

immhey wrote...

Zu Long wrote...

immhey wrote...

I am perfectly aware that DA is more high fantasy than The Witcher but in DA:O, it wasn't this flashy.   DA:O set the theme and expectation for the others to follow.  I think the developers should respect that.  DA2 didn't of course.

So just to be clear here, this is less about how actually realistic the game is than how spectacular the effects are? Even though the level of superhuman skill hasn't actually hanged. (Anyone who can blow multiple opponents away with single sword sweep can knock down a poorly maintained gate).  I honestly don't see how this makes any sense. Because the engine does a better job of demonstrating how superhuman you are, now you have a problem with it?

I stated earlier I have less problem with gatshattering than earthshattering move that the pc in the video made which look like it comes straight from JRPG.  The effect of skill is one of the tool you use to express the theme of the fantasy too.  You would see the difference between the skill effect in final fantasy and DA:O.  A sword move that push a group of human away is not the same as a sword move that break the earth.

Nah, if it was a JRPG, he'd have jumped 20 ft in the air first.

I think we've reached the limits of this conversation. It's pretty clear that you and others see something wrong about this, and that's fine I suppose. I'm just going to say that I honestly couldn't disagree more. I thought the whole trailer was awesome and perfectly in keeping with what I've been lead to expect from the franchise so far.

[Rawgrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Your problem is pretty much the gate thing then? Not the warriors smashing the ground or the mages teleporting or the warriors yanking an enemy with a chain( no idea what it is)

Rawgrim's issue is that, while he doesn't like those things, this new thing is just one more thing that he doesn't want, and he sees it as a particularly egregious thing as well.

Just one more thing? What else is it I don`t want?

[Former_Fiend]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yes. 2 quick jabs, and a castle gate goes down. If she had fought for the orcs at Helm`s Deep they would have won i 5 mins.

Is there a quantity of hits that would have made it more palatable for you?

The world may never know...

[Uccio]

Savber100 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


I am not arguing just to be argumentative. Not my intent at all. If I come across that way, its probably because I tend to sound blunt when I write in english. My bad, though. i need to improve on it.


Simple solution to the issue: Make wooden doors breakable by bashing. Metal doors needs grenades or magic. that way rogues and mages gets something to do when we run into locked doors too.

Naw man.. people on the BSN just enjoy their drama. 


To bolded statement: YES. THAT WORKS FOR ME. 

Heck it would be even better if you make it a RACIAL thing. Only qunari or dwarves could pull it off. 

If not, make each race have different way to take it on. Elves and humans can only get through if they brought Iron Bull or a mage with them. Qunari inquistor can just smash it in. Dwarf Inquistor can deploy explosives etc.

There is an opportunity here. 

A belt of cloud giant strength +24?  

[Rawgrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yes. 2 quick jabs, and a castle gate goes down. If she had fought for the orcs at Helm`s Deep they would have won i 5 mins.

Is there a quantity of hits that would have made it more palatable for you?

Wooden doors getting bashed in by physical strength is ok. Metal gates designed to keep enemies out of a castle should take more to go down. Grenades, acid on the hinges, spells.

[Allan Schumacher]

Rawgrim wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Your problem is pretty much the gate thing then? Not the warriors smashing the ground or the mages teleporting or the warriors yanking an enemy with a chain( no idea what it is)

Rawgrim's issue is that, while he doesn't like those things, this new thing is just one more thing that he doesn't want, and he sees it as a particularly egregious thing as well.

Just one more thing? What else is it I don`t want?

This thread is now closed.  After you have stated in this very thread that you don't like the other unrealistic elements that other people have pointed out to you as counterarguments, I'm literally convinced you're just trying to start **** now and have genuinely made me frustrated and angry.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Anfauglith5 wrote...

I think that move should "just" open the gate by destroying the lock...
It's would be the same thing for gameplay but it would look far les over the top.

This is another great idea.