341 réponses à ce sujet

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...

I saw her do this in one of the gameplay videos. 2 slams with a shield and the metal gate crumbled.
Seriously, this is beyond dumb. Whats even the point of having gates or walls if warriors can just do that? Every hint of belivability goes flying out the window. Logically, this move should also kill every damn enemy in the game with one click. No matter the size of the enemy. I hope this bit gets removed before the final product is out. Thedas isn`t the Marvel universe.

 

Obviously you've never seen Dawn of the Seeker. By stabing a Dragon in the back of the neck with a smallish shiv Cassandra is able to one shot kill a DRAGON. And she does this more than once in the movie.

So, yes, Cassandra is a super hero. An angry, angry, ANGRY super hero. You wouldn't like her angry........

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:24 .

[Vapaa]

GDog89 wrote...

Yeah a Human even with a great Brute strength would not be able to break through thick steel gates even with a shield might dent but break gonna need serious blunt damage like cannon fire or something.

Oh come on that gate wasn't even 3 inches thick and was full of holes

[Rawgrim]

darkblueglass wrote...

In the video, it says a warrior could break a gate unless it is reinforced so we won't be able to break all the doors. Who knows? The keep wasn't maintinaed very well (most likely if you think of the keep's history) so the gate was all rusty and weakened.
If you try to find the logic, you can easily find it.
You can think the Venatories inside didn't have time to reinforce the door.

Its a metal gate. In 2 slams.

[Teahuppoo]

They could do it like the last quest back in DAO

when you called your reinforcements to help you fight. but instead of normal soldiers, we call soldiers with battering rams.

[Lord Raijin]

Archaven wrote...

Lol.. So it's ok you can shoot fire out of your hand or from a wooden staff because it's magic and you cant bash off a gate with brute strength and it's not logic?

10 - disapproval.

Do you know just how silly that was? Seriously why are you people comparing what Cassandra did in DA: Inquistition to mages who was born with a special gift of wielding magic?

[MisterJB]

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[Rawgrim]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I saw her do this in one of the gameplay videos. 2 slams with a shield and the metal gate crumbled.
Seriously, this is beyond dumb. Whats even the point of having gates or walls if warriors can just do that? Every hint of belivability goes flying out the window. Logically, this move should also kill every damn enemy in the game with one click. No matter the size of the enemy. I hope this bit gets removed before the final product is out. Thedas isn`t the Marvel universe.

 

Obviously you've never seen Dawn of the Seeker. By stabing a Dragon in the back of the neck with a smallish shiv Cassandra is able to one shot kill a DRAGON. And she does this more than once in the move.

So, yes, Cassandra is a super hero. An angry, angry, ANGRY super hero. You wouldn't like her angry........

Obviously I actually have the dvd. And yes: Cassandra killing dragons like that is lame too. It makes her character even more of a Mary-Sue. If they want to keep concistancy in their storytelling, she should kill every dragon in the game alone, with ease.

[elfdwarf]

complainers ,finally get ability equal to rogue's pick locking ability then you complain, do you even fun or do you have to make sense in game to play?
i think it's fun idea to add non-combat ability to warrior class

[andar91]

Rawgrim wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

don't like it, use the tunnels or go around the back wall like they said in the demo.

It renders those two choices mute, when it is clearly so easy to just smash metal gates.

I wouldn't say the choices are moot. This is a roleplaying game, right? So if you think smashing through the gate strains credulity, then use the other options.

It would make no sense to spend 15 minutes sneaking into a place, when you have a loaded tank standing right outside the door.

I thought it didn't make sense for you to have your tank smash down the gate? Why can't you just pretend the option doesn't exist if it offends you so much and do something more realistic like sneaking around or finding another entrance or a key or bribing a guard to let you in...? 


I think I understand. You object to the option being there at ALL, for ANYONE. But you are the one playing the game, and you can play it the way you want. Just because the option technically exists doesn't mean you have to use it. So pretend it doesn't.

[The Hierophant]

Meh, it was probably that time of the month for her.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

[darkblueglass]

Rawgrim wrote...

darkblueglass wrote...

In the video, it says a warrior could break a gate unless it is reinforced so we won't be able to break all the doors. Who knows? The keep wasn't maintinaed very well (most likely if you think of the keep's history) so the gate was all rusty and weakened.
If you try to find the logic, you can easily find it.
You can think the Venatories inside didn't have time to reinforce the door.

Its a metal gate. In 2 slams.

So you are saying if it was 10 slams, it is OK?

[Rawgrim]

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

[Rawgrim]

elfdwarf wrote...

complainers ,finally get ability equal to rogue's pick locking ability then you complain, do you even fun or do you have to make sense in game to play?
i think it's fun idea to add non-combat ability to warrior class

Go watch the power rangers. Even more fun for you.

[Former_Fiend]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

[MerinTB]

ElitePinecone wrote...
It's a game. 

It's gameplay.

Gameplay occasionally surrenders realism for fun.

Fun is a good thing.

[Rawgrim]

andar91 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

don't like it, use the tunnels or go around the back wall like they said in the demo.

It renders those two choices mute, when it is clearly so easy to just smash metal gates.

I wouldn't say the choices are moot. This is a roleplaying game, right? So if you think smashing through the gate strains credulity, then use the other options.

It would make no sense to spend 15 minutes sneaking into a place, when you have a loaded tank standing right outside the door.

I thought it didn't make sense for you to have your tank smash down the gate? Why can't you just pretend the option doesn't exist if it offends you so much and do something more realistic like sneaking around or finding another entrance or a key or bribing a guard to let you in...? 


I think I understand. You object to the option being there at ALL, for ANYONE. But you are the one playing the game, and you can play it the way you want. Just because the option technically exists doesn't mean you have to use it. So pretend it doesn't.

I object to it because its lame, stupid, immersion breaking, lore-breaking, and it makes the gameplay look like some silly cartoon.

[Zangler1]

I thought that moment was awesome! Mike Laidlaw even said in the demo "this is not the most solid keep." Maybe the door is rusted, old, and rickety? Maybe, given that the player has previously poisoned the well of this keep and lured many of it's soldiers away to be killed, the Venatori were unable to devote the required time for keep maintenance? Heck, given what we've seen of them, they seem to be rather fanatical and almost primitive anyway. They're more interested in digging up dark secrets than keeping their fortress strong.

Seriously, you may need to open your minds to possibilities beyond what is simply shown on screen. If you can't do that I'm surprised you were able to get through any of the past Dragon Age games. As someone previously mentioned, a warrior's War Cry in DAO literally knocks people backward...by yelling. And not just my tiny elven mage, but also my big qunari friend in full heavy plate. Also, my mage conjured a big firestorm right in the middle of the Circle Tower's libraries....but no books wooden bookshelves were burned. Where was this outrage over physics then?

The fact is...videogames are always going to be a medium were physics are partially limited. They could be limited because the environment at least needs to be stable, given that PC can literally call meteors from the sky, or they can be limited in order to make the player feel special. Mages shouldn't be the only PCs that can feel special. Mages will have plenty of opportunities to affect the world with magic, but warrior and rogues also need to be able to this; warrior probably through strength and rogues through subterfuge.
 
Anyway, it sounds as though they are placing gameplay limitations on these sorts of abilities. Mike Laidlaw mentioned that Cassandra was spec'd that way. So if you'd prefer not to see Cassandra break down a gate...don't spec her that way and take up one of the other five ways he said you could use to get inside the keep.

Modifié par Zangler1, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:34 .

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

Destroying golems with a sword is unbelievable. You swing a sword at solid stone or metal and all you're going to get is a ruined sword. And yet greatswords were perfectly effective against golems in DAO & DA2.

[Wulfram]

The bit with the archer was better, because it looked reasonably vulnerable, the gate is kind of silly.

[FireAndBlood]

If you don't like it don't use it, the demo mentioned many other ways you can get into the keep.

[Rawgrim]

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Then why don`t they use human bodies as gates instead of metal? Seems it wouldbe alot more durable in a siege.

[Thunderfox]

Rawgrim wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

ThunderfoxF wrote...

don't like it, use the tunnels or go around the back wall like they said in the demo.

It renders those two choices mute, when it is clearly so easy to just smash metal gates.

I wouldn't say the choices are moot. This is a roleplaying game, right? So if you think smashing through the gate strains credulity, then use the other options.

It would make no sense to spend 15 minutes sneaking into a place, when you have a loaded tank standing right outside the door.

I thought it didn't make sense for you to have your tank smash down the gate? Why can't you just pretend the option doesn't exist if it offends you so much and do something more realistic like sneaking around or finding another entrance or a key or bribing a guard to let you in...? 


I think I understand. You object to the option being there at ALL, for ANYONE. But you are the one playing the game, and you can play it the way you want. Just because the option technically exists doesn't mean you have to use it. So pretend it doesn't.

I object to it because its lame, stupid, immersion breaking, lore-breaking, and it makes the gameplay look like some silly cartoon.

Seems like an over the top complaint for such a small aspect of the game

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Then why don`t they use human bodies as gates instead of metal? Seems it wouldbe alot more durable in a siege.

Because, if we're going by game mechanics equalling lore, then human bodies either vanish into the either moments after death or explode upon death if they're in Kirkwall.