341 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

addiction21 wrote...
Remember when the same people hand wave all the silly things in DAO? Oh wait its happening right here right now.

Thedas is not the Marvel universe you say? Explain the superhuman gymnastics warriors and rogues can do on the top of a live dragons head, a warrior shouting and knocking people over, a song literally have a physical impact making allies stronger and enemies weaker, fire not roasting a plate wearer alive inside the armor, being frozen solid and walking away like it was nothing more then a cold breeze afterwards.

Hell why are their even armies when our PC and companions can cut thru them as they will.

Sorry but this franchise has always been rule of cool.

I've said this elsewhere - if a warrior can SHOUT and knock down people (Warcry) , or think hard and suddenly become resistant to fire, cold and electricity (Elemental Aegis), or slam their sword on the ground and knock people over / stun them (Tremor) - or any of the other strictly warrior abilities - you have no grounds for complaining about a person knocking down a gate.

A strong person CAN knock down a barricade - the weaker the person or the stronger the barricade, sure, it gets more and more unrealistic.

But a thousand men screaming at the top of their lungs will not knock over a single man.

Modifié par MerinTB, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:46 .

[Rawgrim]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

Destroying golems with a sword is unbelievable. You swing a sword at solid stone or metal and all you're going to get is a ruined sword. And yet greatswords were perfectly effective against golems in DAO & DA2.

Swords infused with magical ruins. But yes, the golems should have had some severe damage resistance vs cutting weapons, and maybe a weakness against blunt weapons. This doesn`t mean Cassandra smashing a metal gate with 2 jabs of her shield seem any less idiotic though.

[Lord Raijin]

It would make more sense when you go near the gate that it will activate a quest to find explosive ingredients. Once you find them you can click on the gate to which gives you a few moments to get back, and then BOOM!

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:34 .

[The Six Path of Pain]

Teahuppoo wrote...

They could do it like the last quest back in DAO

when you called your reinforcements to help you fight. but instead of normal soldiers, we call soldiers with battering rams.

Now this is a much better idea.The Inquisitor is already the leader of the inquisition at the start of the game, if I remember correctly, and should have some degree of followers by that time. Plus it would just be awesome seeing a group of guys breaking down a door with a battering ram.

[Rawgrim]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Then why don`t they use human bodies as gates instead of metal? Seems it wouldbe alot more durable in a siege.

Because, if we're going by game mechanics equalling lore, then human bodies either vanish into the either moments after death or explode upon death if they're in Kirkwall.

Use live bodies then.

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I saw her do this in one of the gameplay videos. 2 slams with a shield and the metal gate crumbled.
Seriously, this is beyond dumb. Whats even the point of having gates or walls if warriors can just do that? Every hint of belivability goes flying out the window. Logically, this move should also kill every damn enemy in the game with one click. No matter the size of the enemy. I hope this bit gets removed before the final product is out. Thedas isn`t the Marvel universe.

 

Obviously you've never seen Dawn of the Seeker. By stabing a Dragon in the back of the neck with a smallish shiv Cassandra is able to one shot kill a DRAGON. And she does this more than once in the move.

So, yes, Cassandra is a super hero. An angry, angry, ANGRY super hero. You wouldn't like her angry........

Obviously I actually have the dvd. And yes: Cassandra killing dragons like that is lame too. It makes her character even more of a Mary-Sue. If they want to keep concistancy in their storytelling, she should kill every dragon in the game alone, with ease.

 

Being supered powered does not make one a Mary-Sue. lol Being flawless and a manifestation of the Author him/herself makes one a Mary-Sue. And Cassandra is far from being either. If you haven't noticed, she an angry, ANGRY woman. Its a big flaw pointed out in the movie.

Nor do they need to have her kill every dragon in the game so easily as the movie. Movies and Games are two different medias. Dragon fights are not going to take as long in movie as in game by nesscessity. A movie is far shorter. That said, if shes in your party, its very fittting for Cassandra to help you hunt down and kill every dragon in the game. 

I bet smashing gates is the least of the over the top attacks they will have Warriors and Rogues preform. The simple fact is that in DA: I, you and your companions ARE super heros fighting a world wide threat. So expect all classes to have over the top attacks. 

We already know Warriors can pull enemies in close with a Harpon like attack and 2h warriors can smash the ground.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:39 .

[Rawgrim]

MerinTB wrote...

addiction21 wrote...
Remember when the same people hand wave all the silly things in DAO? Oh wait its happening right here right now.

Thedas is not the Marvel universe you say? Explain the superhuman gymnastics warriors and rogues can do on the top of a live dragons head, a warrior shouting and knocking people over, a song literally have a physical impact making allies stronger and enemies weaker, fire not roasting a plate wearer alive inside the armor, being frozen solid and walking away like it was nothing more then a cold breeze afterwards.

Hell why are their even armies when our PC and companions can cut thru them as they will.

Sorry but this franchise has always been rule of cool.

I've said this elsewhere - if a warrior can SHOUT and knock down people (Warcry) , or think hard and suddenly become resistant to fire, cold and electricity (Elemental Aegis), or slame their sword on the crowd and knock people over / stun them (Tremor) - or any of the other strictly warrior abilities - you have no grounds for complaining about a person knocking down a gate.

A strong person CAN knock down a barricade - the weaker the person or the stronger the barricade, sure, it gets more and more unrealistic.

But a thousand men screaming at the top of their lungs will not knock over a single man.

People complained about this too (a valid complaint).

[Pitrus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

Now I completely agree that the "there's magic so Cassandra could well be from Krypton" argument is ill-conceived but I couldn't help but roll my eyes at this. You do realize that mages actually *create* energy?

Would you argue that they should remove dragons from the game because they technically don't conform to the laws of aerodynamics and shouldn't be able to fly?

Yes her bashing does seem a bit off but, as mentioned, drawing the line at that point opens quite a big can of worms.

Modifié par Pitrus, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[Rawgrim]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I saw her do this in one of the gameplay videos. 2 slams with a shield and the metal gate crumbled.
Seriously, this is beyond dumb. Whats even the point of having gates or walls if warriors can just do that? Every hint of belivability goes flying out the window. Logically, this move should also kill every damn enemy in the game with one click. No matter the size of the enemy. I hope this bit gets removed before the final product is out. Thedas isn`t the Marvel universe.

 

Obviously you've never seen Dawn of the Seeker. By stabing a Dragon in the back of the neck with a smallish shiv Cassandra is able to one shot kill a DRAGON. And she does this more than once in the move.

So, yes, Cassandra is a super hero. An angry, angry, ANGRY super hero. You wouldn't like her angry........

Obviously I actually have the dvd. And yes: Cassandra killing dragons like that is lame too. It makes her character even more of a Mary-Sue. If they want to keep concistancy in their storytelling, she should kill every dragon in the game alone, with ease.

 

Being supered powered does not make one a Mary-Sue. lol Being flawless and a manifestation of the Author him/herself makes one a Mary-Sue. And Cassandra is far from being either. If you haven't noticed, she an angry, ANGRY woman. Its a big flaw pointed out in the movie.

Nor do they need to have her kill every dragon in the game so easily as the movie. Movies and Games are too different medias. Dragon fights are not going to take as long in movie as in game by nesscessity. A movie is far shorter. That said, if shes in your party, its very fittting for Cassandra to help you hunt down and kill every dragon in the game. 

I bet smashing gates is the least of the over the top attacks they will have Warriors and Rogues preform. The simple fact is that in DA: I, you and your companions ARE super heros fighting a world wide threat. So expect all classes to have over the top attacks.

Being angry is a state of mind. I doubt it will mess up for her in combat. Given the way she is now she can kill dragons with a tiny dagger, jab down metal gates. Pretty much makes her a one man army. Thats a Mary Sue.

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

Destroying golems with a sword is unbelievable. You swing a sword at solid stone or metal and all you're going to get is a ruined sword. And yet greatswords were perfectly effective against golems in DAO & DA2.

Swords infused with magical ruins. But yes, the golems should have had some severe damage resistance vs cutting weapons, and maybe a weakness against blunt weapons. This doesn`t mean Cassandra smashing a metal gate with 2 jabs of her shield seem any less idiotic though.

Towards the end game it's perfectly viable to take an iron greatsword to a golem and come out on top. It's going to take a little longer than using one made out of fantastic materials and infused with a magical rune that may or may not have any affect on the blade's durability or cutting power, but it's still doable, and that sword's going to be perfectly good afterwards. 

I'm not saying Cassandra knocking the gate in as easily as she does isn't over the top and unrealistic. But it is not the end all be all of superhuman feats in the DA universe. Our characters have been doing the physically impossible since Origins, and that isn't going to change. Given all the other crazy things we've been able to do, this just seems like a silly place to draw a line in the sand.

[Rawgrim]

Pitrus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

Now I completely agree that the "there's magic so Cassandra could well be from Krypton" argument is ill-conceived but I couldn't help but roll my eyes at this. You do realize that mages actually *create* energy?

Would you argue that they should remove dragons from the game because they technically don't conform to the laws of aerodynamics and shouldn't be able to fly?

Yes her bashing does seem a bit off but, as mentioned, drawing the line at that point opens quite a big can of worms.

Magic is magic, it defies the laws of physics. Its explained how too. Dragons are magical creatures. Same rules apply. Its explained in the lore.

[MisterJB]

Rawgrim wrote...
Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Yes, it's just as unbelievable that I can do that with one hit. Combat in DA has been unbelievable from the very beginning.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

If you're so worried about realism, then levels shouldn't be in the game at all because, in real life, I don't have a fistifight and suddenly:
"Thereereee! Congratulations! You've reached level 2! Spend your Exp Points wisely".

But Cassandra's background is that of a warrior that has been trained to kill dragons and mages since an early age. And I don't think she'll able to do this particular ability at the beginning of the game.

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

addiction21 wrote...
Remember when the same people hand wave all the silly things in DAO? Oh wait its happening right here right now.

Thedas is not the Marvel universe you say? Explain the superhuman gymnastics warriors and rogues can do on the top of a live dragons head, a warrior shouting and knocking people over, a song literally have a physical impact making allies stronger and enemies weaker, fire not roasting a plate wearer alive inside the armor, being frozen solid and walking away like it was nothing more then a cold breeze afterwards.

Hell why are their even armies when our PC and companions can cut thru them as they will.

Sorry but this franchise has always been rule of cool.

I've said this elsewhere - if a warrior can SHOUT and knock down people (Warcry) , or think hard and suddenly become resistant to fire, cold and electricity (Elemental Aegis), or slame their sword on the crowd and knock people over / stun them (Tremor) - or any of the other strictly warrior abilities - you have no grounds for complaining about a person knocking down a gate.

A strong person CAN knock down a barricade - the weaker the person or the stronger the barricade, sure, it gets more and more unrealistic.

But a thousand men screaming at the top of their lungs will not knock over a single man.

People complained about this too (a valid complaint).

It really isn't.

I'm not saying that shouting was in any way realistic. But it being unrealistic isn't a valid complaint unless the series is based around and marketed as realistic in terms of combat. Dragon age is no such thing.

It just happens that Dragon Age is slightly less over the top than many of it's contemporaries. That doesn't equate to being a realistic game. As such, complaining about over the top moves isn't valid.

[Rawgrim]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

Destroying golems with a sword is unbelievable. You swing a sword at solid stone or metal and all you're going to get is a ruined sword. And yet greatswords were perfectly effective against golems in DAO & DA2.

Swords infused with magical ruins. But yes, the golems should have had some severe damage resistance vs cutting weapons, and maybe a weakness against blunt weapons. This doesn`t mean Cassandra smashing a metal gate with 2 jabs of her shield seem any less idiotic though.

Towards the end game it's perfectly viable to take an iron greatsword to a golem and come out on top. It's going to take a little longer than using one made out of fantastic materials and infused with a magical rune that may or may not have any affect on the blade's durability or cutting power, but it's still doable, and that sword's going to be perfectly good afterwards. 

I'm not saying Cassandra knocking the gate in as easily as she does isn't over the top and unrealistic. But it is not the end all be all of superhuman feats in the DA universe. Our characters have been doing the physically impossible since Origins, and that isn't going to change. Given all the other crazy things we've been able to do, this just seems like a silly place to draw a line in the sand.

The same complaints came up with the shouts and whatsnot in origins. The complaints came up with the teleporting mages, the raining enemies, and the over the top combat in DA2. This one is just another one.

Just adding something thats even sillier than something else doesn`t mean its suddenly a good thing.

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...


Being angry is a state of mind. I doubt it will mess up for her in combat. Given the way she is now she can kill dragons with a tiny dagger, jab down metal gates. Pretty much makes her a one man army. Thats a Mary Sue.

 

Sigh, being overpowered is not what Mary Sue means. It refers to the author inserting themselves into the story, such as in bad fan fiction. Please stop using the term wrong.

That said, by your definiton, the Warden and Hawke are far more Mary Sue than even Cassandra. They smash though whole armies within their games. In fact, the Warden can leave the world in a perfect state, having saved everyone possible. Which makes the Warden a worst offender of believeibility than Cassandra.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:45 .

[lady_v23]

MerinTB wrote...

addiction21 wrote...
Remember when the same people hand wave all the silly things in DAO? Oh wait its happening right here right now.

Thedas is not the Marvel universe you say? Explain the superhuman gymnastics warriors and rogues can do on the top of a live dragons head, a warrior shouting and knocking people over, a song literally have a physical impact making allies stronger and enemies weaker, fire not roasting a plate wearer alive inside the armor, being frozen solid and walking away like it was nothing more then a cold breeze afterwards.

Hell why are their even armies when our PC and companions can cut thru them as they will.

Sorry but this franchise has always been rule of cool.

I've said this elsewhere - if a warrior can SHOUT and knock down people (Warcry) , or think hard and suddenly become resistant to fire, cold and electricity (Elemental Aegis), or slame their sword on the crowd and knock people over / stun them (Tremor) - or any of the other strictly warrior abilities - you have no grounds for complaining about a person knocking down a gate.

A strong person CAN knock down a barricade - the weaker the person or the stronger the barricade, sure, it gets more and more unrealistic.

But a thousand men screaming at the top of their lungs will not knock over a single man.

this.

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Then why don`t they use human bodies as gates instead of metal? Seems it wouldbe alot more durable in a siege.

Because, if we're going by game mechanics equalling lore, then human bodies either vanish into the either moments after death or explode upon death if they're in Kirkwall.

Use live bodies then.

Well then you have to feed 'em and clean up after 'em. That just becomes so much of a hassle.

[Rawgrim]

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Yes, it's just as unbelievable that I can do that with one hit. Combat in DA has been unbelievable from the very beginning.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

If you're so worried about realism, then levels shouldn't be in the game at all because, in real life, I don't have a fistifight and suddenly:
"Thereereee! Congratulations! You've reached level 2! Spend your Exp Points wisely".

But Cassandra's background is that of a warrior that has been trained to kill dragons and mages since an early age. And I don't think she'll able to do this particular ability at the beginning of the game.

Boxers are better at fistfighting than you and me. The level number is just a game mechanic, however. You don`t controll people with a mouse ore a controller in rl either, so this argument is just way out there.

[MerinTB]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I, personally, roll my eyes at the "but there's dragons and magic" argument.

Why?

The existence of deities and magic infuse the entire setting.  The existence of gods and spells and the fade and demons change EVERYTHING.  They are existing variables in the world you cannot rule out.

The "physics" of a world with the fade, demonic possession, people able to throw fireballs, and gigantic reptiles somehow able to attain lift with remarkably nowhere near big nor strong enough wings...

...is different than real world physics.

Warriors can pulse spiritual (that doesn't really exist) energy around then to hurt people surrounding them.  They can point at a person and drain health from them.

"But that's Reavers - that's magic that has to do with dragon's blood."

Wardens can sense darkspawn and are immune to the immediate effects of the taint.

"But that's after a ritual using dragon blood and darkspawn blood!"

Templars can summon energy that slames into a group of people, stunning them.  They can drain magic from mages with hits of their weapons, not because of the weapons but because of themselves.

"But they are templars, consuming lyrium."

You can mix together herbal ingredients and generate potions that can make you immune to fire or give you back health or return you from the dead or...

"But that's herbalism, and there must be some magic involved, not just the plants... right?"

See the pattern?  Why do you assume the existance of the supernatural changes only the blatantly obvious things (mages casting spells, dragons) and not everything else?

These arguments are ridiculous.  YES, I am going to say "it's a fantasy game" because it is BOTH fantasy AND a game.

You accept all those combat abilities, all the other ways the world is warped and morphed to fit into it being a game, and you cannot accept a person breaking apart a steel barricade.

Reminds me of a friend who said the following about X-Men First Class - "I can handle Shaw being able to absorb the nuclear radiation and explosive power, but bullets aren't hurting him.  I don't believe a room full of people shooting at him with guns can't hurt him."  The absolutely fantastic - the mutant absorbing killing energy and massive explosive power, his mind can handle - but throw in a real world situation, bullets, and he cannot accept that the man can withstand that.

See the similarity?

"I accept oxmen, dwarves, the fade, dragons, digesting rocks for magical power, mixing flowers and weeds to bring back the dead, screaming as a way to lay people flat, singing to give people speed and power, making decoys out of nothing in a split second, firing a crossbow or bow into the air and having it rain down a torrent of arrows... but a woman knocking down a gate, uh-uh, that crosses my credibility line."

Really?

REALLY?

really?

[Rawgrim]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


Being angry is a state of mind. I doubt it will mess up for her in combat. Given the way she is now she can kill dragons with a tiny dagger, jab down metal gates. Pretty much makes her a one man army. Thats a Mary Sue.

 

Sigh, being overpowered is not what Mary Sue means. It refers to the author inserting themselves into the story, such as in bad fan fiction. Please stop using the term wrong.

That said, by your definiton, the Warden and Hawke are far more Mary Sue than even Cassandra. They smash though whole armies within their games. In fact, the Warden can leave the world in a perfect state, having saved everyone possible. Which makes the Warden a worst offender of believeibility than Cassandra.

And still they couldn`t smash through metal doors...at any level.

[Taura-Tierno]

If you wanna talk realism, consider how they carry around a freakish amount of loot without being encumbered, or the loot (whether it's weapons or a dozen armors) taking up any phsyical space.

Who's to say that Cassandra does not have some sort of supernatural abilities? Reavers, for instance, are clearly supernatural. As are Templars. Why cannot Inquisitors have some sort of similar training? Or perhaps it is not Cassandra who has magical abilities, but the shields that she uses?

This is hardly a break in realism that is difficult to explain away. There are others that are worse, but that's only to be expected in a game. If you start to really question everything, there are a lot of things that will simply fall apart. (for instance, how could a Rogue in DA:O sneak around right in front of a lot of people while stealthed?)

Modifié par Taura-Tierno, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Rawgrim]

MerinTB wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I, personally, roll my eyes at the "but there's dragons and magic" argument.

Why?

The existence of deities and magic infuse the entire setting.  The existence of gods and spells and the fade and demons change EVERYTHING.  They are existing variables in the world you cannot rule out.

The "physics" of a world with the fade, demonic possession, people able to throw fireballs, and gigantic reptiles somehow able to attain lift with remarkably nowhere near big nor strong enough wings...

...is different than real world physics.

Warriors can pulse spiritual (that doesn't really exist) energy around then to hurt people surrounding them.  They can point at a person and drain health from them.

"But that's Reavers - that's magic that has to do with dragon's blood."

Wardens can sense darkspawn and are immune to the immediate effects of the taint.

"But that's after a ritual using dragon blood and darkspawn blood!"

Templars can summon energy that slames into a group of people, stunning them.  They can drain magic from mages with hits of their weapons, not because of the weapons but because of themselves.

"But they are templars, consuming lyrium."

You can mix together herbal ingredients and generate potions that can make you immune to fire or give you back health or return you from the dead or...

"But that's herbalism, and there must be some magic involved, not just the plants... right?"

See the pattern?  Why do you assume the existance of the supernatural changes only the blatantly obvious things (mages casting spells, dragons) and not everything else?

These arguments are ridiculous.  YES, I am going to say "it's a fantasy game" because it is BOTH fantasy AND a game.

You accept all those combat abilities, all the other ways the world is warped and morphed to fit into it being a game, and you cannot accept a person breaking apart a steel barricade.

Reminds me of a friend who said the following about X-Men First Class - "I can handle Shaw being able to absorb the nuclear radiation and explosive power, but bullets aren't hurting him.  I don't believe a room full of people shooting at him with guns can't hurt him."  The absolutely fantastic - the mutant absorbing killing energy and massive explosive power, his mind can handle - but throw in a real world situation, bullets, and he cannot accept that the man can withstand that.

See the similarity?

"I accept oxmen, dwarves, the fade, dragons, digesting rocks for magical power, mixing flowers and weeds to bring back the dead, screaming as a way to lay people flat, singing to give people speed and power, making decoys out of nothing in a split second, firing a crossbow or bow into the air and having it rain down a torrent of arrows... but a woman knocking down a gate, uh-uh, that crosses my credibility line."

Really?

REALLY?

really?

All this is in the lore. People smashing through steel gates at a keep with a simple jab of a shield isn`t. If this is common, or even a few only could do it, it would be the way every damn siege in the history of Thedas would have ended.

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...

And still they couldn`t smash through metal doors...at any level.

 

Slaughtering whole armies nearly single handedly is one thing. Smashing a metal gate is a WHOLE ANOTHER LEVEL! lol 

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[Thunderfox]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


Being angry is a state of mind. I doubt it will mess up for her in combat. Given the way she is now she can kill dragons with a tiny dagger, jab down metal gates. Pretty much makes her a one man army. Thats a Mary Sue.

 

Sigh, being overpowered is not what Mary Sue means. It refers to the author inserting themselves into the story, such as in bad fan fiction. Please stop using the term wrong.

That said, by your definiton, the Warden and Hawke are far more Mary Sue than even Cassandra. They smash though whole armies within their games. In fact, the Warden can leave the world in a perfect state, having saved everyone possible. Which makes the Warden a worst offender of believeibility than Cassandra.

Yeah the usage of Mary-sue on this forum can get very riddiculus. As long as charcter has demonstrable flaws, that can and should get in their way and they aren't universally loved (in universe) they're not a mary-sue

[lady_v23]

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Nowhere is it stated thet the laws of physics are different in Thedas.

The point is that we've seen the DA series sacrificing realism for more interesting, or simply manageable, combat many times in the past. This applies both to things warriors and rogues can do; such as the "War Cry" ability which was a scream that knocked people on their behinds for...reasons; or simply things that they and mages can wheather such as being stuck by dragons, fireballs, arrows, being run through by the Arishok etc. You can even fight the Archdemon with nothing on if your Fortitude and Strength are high enough.
And remember when a single swing of your sword was enough to destroy a line of stakes stabbed into the ground?

It seems arbitrary to draw the line at Cassandra being able to break through steel. Those weren't the mithril gates of Minas Tirith and she is not an amateur. Is it 100% realistic? No but when was combat in any game 100% realistic?
Warriors needed to have more appeal. If a propely specced one can break through enemy fortifications like that, players will have a greater incentive to bring them along.

The Arishok fight got the same complaints.

Destroying wooden stakes with a sword isn`t unbelivable at all. For the most part it took more than 2 short slams with a shield though.

Are you saying Cassandra won`t start as a level 1 character in the game?

Destroying golems with a sword is unbelievable. You swing a sword at solid stone or metal and all you're going to get is a ruined sword. And yet greatswords were perfectly effective against golems in DAO & DA2.

Swords infused with magical ruins. But yes, the golems should have had some severe damage resistance vs cutting weapons, and maybe a weakness against blunt weapons. This doesn`t mean Cassandra smashing a metal gate with 2 jabs of her shield seem any less idiotic though.

Towards the end game it's perfectly viable to take an iron greatsword to a golem and come out on top. It's going to take a little longer than using one made out of fantastic materials and infused with a magical rune that may or may not have any affect on the blade's durability or cutting power, but it's still doable, and that sword's going to be perfectly good afterwards. 

I'm not saying Cassandra knocking the gate in as easily as she does isn't over the top and unrealistic. But it is not the end all be all of superhuman feats in the DA universe. Our characters have been doing the physically impossible since Origins, and that isn't going to change. Given all the other crazy things we've been able to do, this just seems like a silly place to draw a line in the sand.

The same complaints came up with the shouts and whatsnot in origins. The complaints came up with the teleporting mages, the raining enemies, and the over the top combat in DA2. This one is just another one.

Just adding something thats even sillier than something else doesn`t mean its suddenly a good thing.

Dragon age has all those elements since the first game.  You're complaining about something that has always been there.  Why you're complaining and so far down the line.  ( the fourth game is coming out)  makes no sense to me.