341 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

If you wanna talk realism, consider how they carry around a freakish amount of loot without being encumbered, or the loot (whether it's weapons or a dozen armors) taking up any phsyical space.

Who's to say that Cassandra does not have some sort of supernatural abilities? Reavers, for instance, are clearly supernatural. As are Templars. Why cannot Inquisitors have some sort of similar training? Or perhaps it is not Cassandra who has magical abilities, but the shields that she uses?

This is hardly a break in realism that is difficult to explain away. There are others that are worse, but that's only to be expected in a game. If you start to really question everything, there are a lot of things that will simply fall apart. (for instance, how could a Rogue in DA:O sneak around right in front of a lot of people while stealthed?)

If it shows up in the codex that she is part of the x-men, I will rest my case.

If its the shield she uses it should still be able to do the same amount of damage to humans as it does to the metal gate. Instant death.

[In Exile]

Rawgrim wrote...
Magic and dragons excist in the setting. Its explained and part of the lore. Ordinary humans with zero magical abilities being able to Mary-Sue through a metal door just because it looks kewl, is way different.

How about humans with zero magic abilities being able to survive being set on fire, frozen or electrocuted? Magic is a one-hit KO if anything realistic applied, but warriors survive that. Warriors survive [b]getting munched on by dragons[/i]. 

An RPG works - for melee warriors - only by absolutely removing all shred of realism from the power and resistance of the warriors. It's badass normal to the extreme as a basic trope. 

[MerinTB]

Also - Cassandra is a Seeker. That's a level above Templar, as far as I understand it.

Templars are men, not mages, resistant to magic and able to do clearly magical things.

"Because of lyrium!"

Who's to say that Seekers aren't equally endowed?

And - anyone who's taken the time to watch Dawn of the Seeker, and see Cassandra taking down, single-handedly, a half dozen adult dragons in one fight, shouldn't question her ability to defeat a gate.

Realism is not Dragon Age's watch-word.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Highly dout that human bodies are tougher than metal. Why would warriors even bother wearing armor if that was the case.

[Rawgrim]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

And still they couldn`t smash through metal doors...at any level.

 

Slaughtering whole armies nearly single handedly is one thing. Smashing a metal gate is a WHOLE ANOTHER LEVEL! lol 

Sticking a sword into someones guts kills them. Makes sense, no? Jabbing a metal shield against a huge metal gate. A  gate designed to keep intruders out, and have it crumble just like that is way out there. It actually makes the entire rogue class obsolete.

[MerinTB]

ThunderfoxF wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Being angry is a state of mind. I doubt it will mess up for her in combat. Given the way she is now she can kill dragons with a tiny dagger, jab down metal gates. Pretty much makes her a one man army. Thats a Mary Sue.

 
Sigh, being overpowered is not what Mary Sue means. It refers to the author inserting themselves into the story, such as in bad fan fiction. Please stop using the term wrong.

That said, by your definiton, the Warden and Hawke are far more Mary Sue than even Cassandra. They smash though whole armies within their games. In fact, the Warden can leave the world in a perfect state, having saved everyone possible. Which makes the Warden a worst offender of believeibility than Cassandra.

Yeah the usage of Mary-sue on this forum can get very riddiculus. As long as charcter has demonstrable flaws, that can and should get in their way and they aren't universally loved (in universe) they're not a mary-sue

Agreed.

People need to stop using words they don't understand.

Overpowered in not Mary Sue.  At.  All.  A Mary Sue CAN be overpowered, but I doubt anyone is claiming Darkseid or Apocalypse are Mary Sue's.  And if they are, they are ignorant.

[The Hierophant]

Seriously now, if a non enchanted human being could destroy a metal gate with a few shield bashes you'd figure that the defenses would be improved to prevent that from happening.

I get the whole rule of cool point, but it's like someone constructing a security door out of a thin sheet of aluminum wrap, and not expecting anyone to barrel through it.

[Wulfram]

The justifying of unrealistic stuff because of the presence of unrealistic stuff is annoying.  The inevitable conclusion of that logic is that all games should abandon all grounding in reality, because they all have some sort of seed of unreality that can be used as the excuse for the next bit and the next bit.

Which is what it seems like has happened to the Warriors in DA:O.  Admittedly they were never the pinnacle of realism, but they've gone from something that was at least somewhat grounded to a class that seem like they'd be better off basically fluffed as a variety of mage.

[Rawgrim]

In Exile wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Magic and dragons excist in the setting. Its explained and part of the lore. Ordinary humans with zero magical abilities being able to Mary-Sue through a metal door just because it looks kewl, is way different.

How about humans with zero magic abilities being able to survive being set on fire, frozen or electrocuted? Magic is a one-hit KO if anything realistic applied, but warriors survive that. Warriors survive [b]getting munched on by dragons[/i]. 

An RPG works - for melee warriors - only by absolutely removing all shred of realism from the power and resistance of the warriors. It's badass normal to the extreme as a basic trope. 

Healing spells and healing potions heal the damage. If you don`t use those things warriors die from being electrocuted, stabbed, burned, frozen and whatsnot.

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

And still they couldn`t smash through metal doors...at any level.

 

Slaughtering whole armies nearly single handedly is one thing. Smashing a metal gate is a WHOLE ANOTHER LEVEL! lol 

Sticking a sword into someones guts kills them. Makes sense, no? Jabbing a metal shield against a huge metal gate. A  gate designed to keep intruders out, and have it crumble just like that is way out there. It actually makes the entire rogue class obsolete.

 

Well, I always viewed the Rogue class as obesolete in Dragon Age. They were in DA: O where it was just better to be a Dual Weild warrior and in DA 2 where Cleave + a CCC = massive warrior damage. Not to mention Beserker which lets you kill groups of normal enemies faster than any rogue.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:56 .

[Rawgrim]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

While I have to agree with some that it is a fantasy setting. But this pretty much falls into the same category as DA2 gameplay. If Cassandra can do this then why couldn't Alistair or Avaline do this as well. And if she has that kind of power than it should be implemented all through out the rest of the game. Example: She should be able to outright kill an enemy with a single shield bash. Personally I hope they remove it and go back to using keys.

The Doylist answer is simple; different game engines. Frostbite allows for destructible environments, the old engine did not. 

And I thought the whole destroying a pillar to kill the archer moment in the demo was cool. More than cool it was plain awesome! I just don't like the whole destroying a metal gate with a a simple shield and as I said I can pretty much guarantee she won't have that same power when attacking an enemy.

I think the flaw in that logic is that by all apperances, people in the DA universe are apparently tougher than metal gates. Otherwise every fight with an ogre would boil down to what happened to Calien.

Highly dout that human bodies are tougher than metal. Why would warriors even bother wearing armor if that was the case.

They don`t need to bother with armour anymore now though. 2 slams from a shield and the armour is destroyed anyway, if there is any shred of consitancy in Thedas.

[Allan Schumacher]

Lord Raijin wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Here's the moment in question, for objective analysis

It pains to me to hear people screaming out like if they just saw Justin Bieber naked body after Cassandra just crumbled that metal gate. It was embarrassing to see them approving this kind of behavior.

Please don't make disparaging remarks about people that happened to enjoy something happening that you did not.

[MisterJB]

Rawgrim wrote...
If its the shield she uses it should still be able to do the same amount of damage to humans as it does to the metal gate. Instant death.

Ok, look at what Vivienne is doing here.


Her spell is creating craters in the ground. And yet, I promise you that any sufficiently high leveled warrior would be able to just shrug being hit by one of those "meteors". NAKED.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:57 .

[Wissenschaft]

I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of DA: I, I'll be able to run around naked and still beat groups of enemies. Like you can do in the battle of Denerim vs the darkspawn. So yeah........realism.......

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 04:58 .

[ForTheWynne]

andar91 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Rawgrim 25+ approval

I thought it was tad bit ridiculous myself to see her smashing down the steel gate with just her shield. It's stupid and illogical, and it will be the downfall of this game if BioWare allows to be in the final product.

Cassandra is NOT an Ogre.How can her shield possibly demolished a steel gate? Doesn't make any sense.

It's one thing that some people might not like. Don't you think it's a little silly to call it the "downfall of the game"?

I can see Gamespot's review now...

"The Good - Amazing exploration, brutal yet tactical combat, breathtaking true next gen visuals, memorable companions, Bioware's finest storytelling yet

The Bad - Cassandra's shield bash on keep gates breaks immersion

Gamespot Score - 4.5"

[MerinTB]

Not every invading army will have a high-level Seeker.

So gates are still useful against 99% of invading armies.

[In Exile]

Rawgrim wrote...
Healing spells and healing potions heal the damage. If you don`t use those things warriors die from being electrocuted, stabbed, burned, frozen and whatsnot.

There's no "heal spell" for being set on fire. You burn alive, your armour melts into your flesh, your hair catches fire, your skin roasts, and you roll on the ground begging to die after the first fireball that you're hit with. 

DA:O is very clear that you can be set on fre and get up like it's nothing. A dragon can crush you in its jaw, through you 20 feet and you can get up like it's nothing.

Hell, you can be turned into a pincussion by arrows without wearing any armour and still be fine. 

[Angrywolves]

Another Cassandra thread was unnecessary .
The gate smashing got the whoops from the fans at Pax.
Was over the top and unrealistic.

[Rawgrim]

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
If its the shield she uses it should still be able to do the same amount of damage to humans as it does to the metal gate. Instant death.

Ok, look at what Vivienne is doing here.


Her spell is creating craters in the ground. And yet, I promise you that any sufficiently high leveled warrior would be able to just shrug being hit by one of those "meteors". NAKED.

Depends on how high up the meteros are falling from, doesn`t it? She is just summoning them out of thin air some place above the enemy.

[DeathScepter]

In DAO, A properly built Rogue can do massive damage. With the Base Rogue Damage Feats, you can do much Damage with High Cunning. DAO: Assassin and Duelist are excellent for all around damage. Also Within DAO:A, Shadow can increase the Critcals of those attacks.

[Zangler1]

Quick way to solves this: if you consider this talent the straw that broke the camels back in terms of Dragon Age breaking the laws of physics...don't use it. They mention there were other ways to invade the keep, and that Cassandra had to specifically spec'd that way. You don't like it? Don't spec her that way, and find the cave in the back. Or would the fact that such talents exist and that other player may not really care still be too much?

[Rawgrim]

MerinTB wrote...

Not every invading army will have a high-level Seeker.

So gates are still useful against 99% of invading armies.

Doesn`t matter what level she is at. Smashing through a gate like that is way over the top, and way into Marvel territory.

[immhey]

I think that Bioware is trying to make DA:I overall over the top which is a bad thing imo. DA:O was not this flashy. I know this is fantasy where a human could kill dragons and uses magic BUT making the world believeable is a part of making an immersive game.

Somethings in the gameplay video bothers such as earthshattering move from the inquisitor and some swordwork that make flashy effect. All of that aside I really like the game so far.

[Pitrus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Magic is magic, it defies the laws of physics. Its explained how too. Dragons are magical creatures. Same rules apply. Its explained in the lore.

True, but the way I've understood it Seekers are recruited from the cream of the templar crop with templars being capable of quite a few feats that could only be explained by breaking our laws of physics.

All this is in the lore. People smashing through steel gates at a keep with a simple jab of a shield isn`t. If this is common, or even a few only could do it, it would be the way every damn siege in the history of Thedas would have ended.

But you do agree that there are more than a few mages capable of doing it?

Modifié par Pitrus, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:06 .

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Not every invading army will have a high-level Seeker.

So gates are still useful against 99% of invading armies.

Doesn`t matter what level she is at. Smashing through a gate like that is way over the top, and way into Marvel territory.

 

Welcome to the Marvel Age: Inquistion then? lol