341 réponses à ce sujet

[immhey]

Former_Fiend wrote...

immhey wrote...

I think people here just don't understand. They use argument like this is already fantasy so this is not a problem. The fact is making the world believeable is a part of making immersive game. Would you be okay the Inquisition shooting laser out of his eyes?

And I think that people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

This isn't shooting lasers out of your eyes. This isn't jumping fifty feet in the air. And this isn't throwing ogres around like rag dolls. This is a gate. A single, thin, steel gate that is by all accounts in poor repair and likely rusted.

Were the two hits a little too much? Maybe. But I guarentee you that if it took a prolonged battering to bring that gate down, people would complain about it taking too long and being tedious. 

I am not neccessary pointing at that gatebreaking move.  There were some more in the video like earthshattering move from the pc.  That quite bothered me.

[lady_v23]

Rawgrim wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...
but they always been there!  why are you complaining about something that has always existed!?

 

I kind of get the feeling that the OP just wants to start an arguement for the sake of arguement. Happens all the time on these forums.

No, its a genuine concern. I don`t want DA2 combat, and I deffinatly don`t want something thats even sillier than that.

then I guess you don't want Origins combat as well.  Since it had a lot of unrealistic elements.  So tell me, what exactly do you want?  I

It was less in your face, in origins. Told you that earlier too. Please read my posts.

...  I think I Fold from this.  I did not forget the headache you gave me last night.

Modifié par lady_v23, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Chari]

All attempts to make a beliavable RPG stopped at DA2
Now it's all about "AWEHSOME BUTTAN:

[Rawgrim]

addiction21 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

immhey wrote...

I think people here just don't understand. They use argument like this is already fantasy so this is not a problem. The fact is making the world believeable is a part of making immersive game. Would you be okay the Inquisition shooting laser out of his eyes?

 

Actually yes, can my Mage have that power? Its certainly no different then my Mage shooting fireballs out of his hands.

Laser isn`t in the lore.

Neither are arrows that bounce to multiple targets or when fired into the air split into dozens more. Dragon Age Origins must be one of the worst games you ever played... you did play it right?

Archery was allways broken. As i have stated about 20 times now, I never said DA:O had perfect combat. I am saying that Cassandra, for no belivable reason, smashing down a gate with 2 quick jabs, goes beyond silly.

[Former_Fiend]

krul2k wrote...

On a side note, if cassandra can do that do we still need a rogue in the grp to open a chest?

I for one think we should have always been able to smash open chest. At least the wooden ones.

[Cutlasskiwi]

In Exile wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Magic and dragons excist in the setting. Its explained and part of the lore. Ordinary humans with zero magical abilities being able to Mary-Sue through a metal door just because it looks kewl, is way different.

How about humans with zero magic abilities being able to survive being set on fire, frozen or electrocuted? Magic is a one-hit KO if anything realistic applied, but warriors survive that. Warriors survive [b]getting munched on by dragons[/i]. 

An RPG works - for melee warriors - only by absolutely removing all shred of realism from the power and resistance of the warriors. It's badass normal to the extreme as a basic trope. 

^^Seriously this.

Smashing that gate does not seem ridicules to me. Especially not if we're judging it to other things in the series. Munched on by dragons(!), impaled by spears, poisoned, set on fire etc.. I don't understand why this is getting so much hate.

[In Exile]

Rawgrim wrote...
Archery was allways broken. As i have stated about 20 times now, I never said DA:O had perfect combat. I am saying that Cassandra, for no belivable reason, smashing down a gate with 2 quick jabs, goes beyond silly.

And we are saying if that's your standard, then every single RPG ever is also silly. Alternatively, you're being hypocritical and/or selectively blind. In either case, good luck with your topic, I've said my piece. 

[MisterJB]

immhey wrote...
O am not neccessary pointing at that gatebreaking move.  There were some more in the video like earthshattering move from the pc.  That quite bothered me.

That only actually bothered me somewhat. Mostly because, unlike with Cassandra's "knock knock"; it serves no purpose beyond looking cool.

[Zu Long]

immhey wrote...

I think people here just don't understand. They use argument like this is already fantasy so this is not a problem. The fact is making the world believeable is a part of making immersive game. Would you be okay the Inquisition shooting laser out of his eyes?

The point many of us have been making is that this level of believability has been part of DA from the very beginning. See my previous post. They are pretty much directly in line with where they've always been. This is what Dragon Age is, what it ALWAYS has been. You don't have to like it, but don't pretend it hasn't always been this way. And it isn't going to change.

[Rawgrim]

MisterJB wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Not counting spells and magic here.

Spells and magic count. You can discount mages being able to use magic but non-mage being capable of, for instance, be frozen and then be fine as soon as the timer runs out  already makes it unrealistic.

.

The drakensang games has pretty realistic combat.

 Never played. However, watching some images leads me to believe it works much like DA. Characters gets hit by a ball of fire, character is fine so long as healt didn't fall to zero.

The Game of Thrones Rpg has pretty realistic combat.

 
Are you kidding? You can be set on fire with Wildfire; you know, fire that literally can't be put out and is capable of melting stone; and be fine.
And that is not magic. The process of creating wildfire is 100% scientifical.

Baldur`s Gate and Icewind Dale, to some point. Betrayal at Krondor. The Ultima games I guess could fall under realistic. Belivable is probably a better word to use, though.

It's more impossible to fight giants monster; which you can in, at least, some of these games; with a melee weapon than it is to smash through a metal gate with  shield.

In drakensang you get wounds from stuff like that, that lowers your stats and severely hampers you. You need someone with a heal skill and "medkits" to fix it.

I forgot about the wildfire. True that. I was thinking of the movements though.

You can wack their legs etc. Most of them arn`t really that big, though. People used to hunt mamoths with spears etc too, remember.

[immhey]

It would be fine if DA as a serie established itself as a really high fantasy like WarCraft. A warrior in WarCraft doing that wouldn't disturb people. DA:O established itself as more to the ground RPG.

[Daerog]

Is it acceptable to believe that when Cassandra or any warrior is spec'd to take down a door then any shield they pick up is auto enchanted to cause a wither effect on objects of a certain density?

I haven't seen anyone say ENCHANTMENT! on this thread yet which is disappointing, but I may have just missed it.

I personally don't mind it, it is a gameplay mechanic in my mind. Someone mentioned summoning people with a battering ram, but I haven't seen others give any suggestions on how to change it. Should it just be dropped and EVERYONE forced to the other options?

Realistic? No, not at all. Do you have an alternative in mind? One can always headcanon that the shield is enchanted for this purpose if it is too difficult to accept otherwise.


Edit: Certainly there are a lot of combat and non combat abilities that are unrealistic, but do people just want this stuff removed or do some people have better ideas that doesn't involve redoing the whole franchise?

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 08 septembre 2013 - 05:32 .

[Pitrus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Laser isn`t in the lore.

Unless Gaider decides to put it there. For all I know there's nothing in the lore that explicitly hinders its inclusion. You can quote lore all you want but in the end it's still a matter of your personal aversion to lasers in Dragon Age.

Off topic, I know that there's a lot of debating in the thread but is it really necessary to quote other quotes in their entirety?

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...
It's badass normal, with the protagonist exception.

That should be put on the box art, somewhere.

[JJDXB]

The key word is believable, not realistic. There are already concessions made to believability:

-Cooldown timers
-The fact that the dragons don't immediately make mincemeat out of everyone
-Abilities for warriors and rogues that allow you to perform certain physically impossible (and sometimes ridiculous) manoeuvres

This gate smashing ability is no different in believability to an activated ability that lasts for x seconds allowing you to hit all the right points, or magically disappearing in plain sight without actually using magic.

[Rawgrim]

In Exile wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Archery was allways broken. As i have stated about 20 times now, I never said DA:O had perfect combat. I am saying that Cassandra, for no belivable reason, smashing down a gate with 2 quick jabs, goes beyond silly.

And we are saying if that's your standard, then every single RPG ever is also silly. Alternatively, you're being hypocritical and/or selectively blind. In either case, good luck with your topic, I've said my piece. 

Every game is abit silly, sure. My point is that this bit takes the sillyness to a different level. And its alot harder to suspend disbelief with this bit.

[MerinTB]

Wissenschaft wrote...
After watching Dawn of the Seeker, I'm pretty sure Cassandra could take on the Hulk just like Wolverine did. She might not win but she'd give one hell of a fight. 

Yep.

Or jump on the Abomination's back and ride him at Hulk to victory.

[Former_Fiend]

Rawgrim wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

immhey wrote...

I think people here just don't understand. They use argument like this is already fantasy so this is not a problem. The fact is making the world believeable is a part of making immersive game. Would you be okay the Inquisition shooting laser out of his eyes?

 

Actually yes, can my Mage have that power? Its certainly no different then my Mage shooting fireballs out of his hands.

Laser isn`t in the lore.

Neither are arrows that bounce to multiple targets or when fired into the air split into dozens more. Dragon Age Origins must be one of the worst games you ever played... you did play it right?

Archery was allways broken. As i have stated about 20 times now, I never said DA:O had perfect combat. I am saying that Cassandra, for no belivable reason, smashing down a gate with 2 quick jabs, goes beyond silly.

You know, I can honestly see where you're coming from. I've made a similar argument to what you're saying about a dozen different things in a dozen different settings. I can see how this bothers you.

That being said, my problem with your argument is that you are making this out to be an objective thing. It isn't. What is and is not over the top, silly, and immersion breaking is something that works on an individual basis. Cassandra breaking down that gate is too over the top for your tastes, but not mine.

At the end of the day I think you have a somewhat skewed or unreasonable expectation of what Dragon Age combat should be. Just my opinion, though.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think the OP has a point. It's not about realism, but about the illusion of a believable world. BW mentioned that the over the top combat would be reduced, but with scenes like the crushing of that gate, it seems to be back like never before.

[Rawgrim]

Pitrus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Laser isn`t in the lore.

Unless Gaider decides to put it there. For all I know there's nothing in the lore that explicitly hinders its inclusion. You can quote lore all you want but in the end it's still a matter of your personal aversion to lasers in Dragon Age.

Off topic, I know that there's a lot of debating in the thread but is it really necessary to quote other quotes in their entirety?

If they add lasers to the game and explain how and why its there, its no problem. Just having people bash down castle gates with two quick jabs is abit different. It makes war machines, grenades, gunpowder and battering rams obselete.

[Rawgrim]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I think the OP has a point. It's not about realism, but about the illusion of a believable world. BW mentioned that the over the top combat would be reduced, but with scenes like the crushing of that gate, it seems to be back like never before.

Thanks. that was exactly my point.

[Zu Long]

immhey wrote...

It would be fine if DA as a serie established itself as a really high fantasy like WarCraft. A warrior in WarCraft doing that wouldn't disturb people. DA:O established itself as more to the ground RPG.

No, it didn't. I'm going to quote myself from earlier:

*Sigh* People need to get over this notion that Dragon Age is some kind
of Medieval Simulation. It's not. It's NEVER been that way. As people
have pointed out, DA:O had plenty of completely unrealistic facets. My
100lbs soaking wet city elf warrior that you see in my profile picture
ran around in heavy armor, and could fling whole groups of armored
enemies through the air using a two-handed maul that was BIGGER THAN SHE
WAS. She could stun Dragons and Ogres who outweighed her by orders of
magnitude by pommel striking them.

To me? All of this was
awesome. I deliberately played as a warrior elf in part for the hilarity
of this tiny woman running around beating up fantasy monsters. I
realize that isn't to everyone's taste, but don't pretend like this is
some kind of shift on Bioware's part. They firmly set themselves here
from the very beginning.

People have also mentioned survival of unsurvivable attacks, like a dragon picking you up in its jaws and shaking you like a ragdoll.

[Daerog]

So, how should four people be able to take down a gate? Not at all? They mentioned somewhere about Varric sneaking in... I could be wrong on that. Is a warrior worthless at assaulting keeps except during combat?