270 réponses à ce sujet

[Sejborg]

So there was this other thread that was closed. And I was having a discussion with Allan but I didn't get to reply before he closed the thread, and that seemed a bit unfair because I think I had a pretty good suggestion. 

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Are you trying to tell me that there will be puzzles instead of gate smashing in the final game?

I'm saying that your expectation for us to change flow and shift into a puzzle to show how we can stop and think isn't grounded in reality.  It's an imaginary solution that you think is acceptable, but in practice is not, because you're failing to understand the logistics of creating a demo that fits within an allotted time slot and the challenges that come simply because playing a game and watching someone else play the game is not the same thing.

Second. How is it not an acceptable solution to introduce a puzzle instead of gate smashing?

Third. I don't care about your logistics of creating a demo or your time slots, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. What I am suggesting is having a puzzle to get through the castle gates, instead of just hammering away at it, like we were playing a God of War game. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[aries1001]

As for Allan's questions on how may bashed a certain person might want to get a door open ny bahsing/smashing through it:

In Neverwinter Nights and in the BG games, warriors could smash down a door if their strength ability were high enough. In NWN 1, it took maybe, 2-10 hits to get a wooden chest to bash open. And it took maybe 4-12 or more hits to get a steelbox to bash open. And some chests and strongboxes you couldn't even open without a key.

I think Rawgrim's issue with this really is this: A steel door shouldn't be able to budge from a man or a woman with a shield, enchanted or not, (the shield, not the man or the woman) or be able to be bashed open with two smashes to the gates/doors. As stated before, I somewhat agree.

I also stand by earlier comment on this: Please make it so that there's some dialouge option, a small text floating at youy reach the door, saying something like. These doors/gates look old and rusted. You should try breaking them down with your shield. Or show that the doors/gates are old and rusty mcuh more than you do now. (or possibly both). Or have Cassanda or another companion walk up the door, grab it, and say something like: we should try breaking this door down. It looks old and rusty and not well maintained.

As for Sejborg's comment, I think he genuinely wanted to know if there would be puzzles in the game unlocking doors...as would I...

[crimzontearz]

your third point is ridiculous in SO many ways

[Ecmoose]

Protip, probably not best to call a mod a dick right after he admitted he was angry and frustrated.

[FireAndBlood]

First off you're gonna get banned.
Second this thread is gonna get closed.

[Ecmoose]

aries1001 wrote...

As for Allan's questions on how may bashed a certain person might want to get a door open ny bahsing/smashing through it:

In Neverwinter Nights and in the BG games, warriors could smash down a door if their strength ability were high enough. In NWN 1, it took maybe, 2-10 hits to get a wooden chest to bash open. And it took maybe 4-12 or more hits to get a steelbox to bash open. And some chests and strongboxes you couldn't even open without a key.

I think Rawgrim's issue with this really is this: A steel door shouldn't be able to budge from a man or a woman with a shield, enchanted or not, (the shield, not the man or the woman) or be able to be bashed open with two smashes to the gates/doors. As stated before, I somewhat agree.

I also stand by earlier comment on this: Please make it so that there's some dialouge option, a small text floating at youy reach the door, saying something like. These doors/gates look old and rusted. You should try breaking them down with your shield. Or show that the doors/gates are old and rusty mcuh more than you do now. (or possibly both). Or have Cassanda or another companion walk up the door, grab it, and say something like: we should try breaking this door down. It looks old and rusty and not well maintained.

As for Sejborg's comment, I think he genuinely wanted to know if there would be puzzles in the game unlocking doors...as would I...

In the demo they specifically stated that they don't want dialogue options showing you how you might bypass something, or act in a specific situation (see: burning the boats). That doesn't mean that there won't be other solutions, especially considering they mentioned a few other options just before they bashed the gate.

[Sol Downer]

Don't. It's already too late, but in the future it's better not to do something so stupid.

[Rawgrim]

No reason to call a mod a dick. 99 percent of the time he is extremely helpful and friendly. Him losing his temper in the other thread was, in part, my fault.

[Sejborg]

Please stay on topic people. This is about puzzles instead gate smashing. Say what you feel about that suggestion instead of everything else.

[Rawgrim]

Puzzles to open ancient Thaig doors and whatsnot sound interesting. Maybe making them easier if you have a dwarf in the party as well - that might now something about how those doors work.

[Angrywolves]

DA isn't Brainlord, a snes rpg that was primarily puzzles.
A few puzzles are ok but too many can get old quickly.

[slimgrin]

I bet there will be. They wanted to show off Frostbyte afterall. Allan closed the other thread prematurely, even after Rawgrim apologized. I'm sure this will get closed too. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:57 .

[FireAndBlood]

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

[Sol Downer]

I'm absolutely fine with breaking down doors. It doesn't harm the game any more than shouting to knock people down does.

[Uccio]

How would one open a gate by solving a puzzle? Any medieval castle gate is strong built of metal/wood construction and has no lock. Only way to open one outside is by battering ram, or Cassandra it seems.

[Ecmoose]

Sejborg wrote...

Please stay on topic people. This is about puzzles instead gate smashing. Say what you feel about that suggestion instead of everything else.

And we'll stay on topic, but it would be in your best interest to remove your first "point" as it increases the likely hood of a thread getting closed, thereby stopping discussion.


As long as we don't have some sort of lockpivking puzzle I'm fine. Typically I hate them and I've yet to see one done well enough that I don't groan whenever I'm forced to do it. I prefer getting into the fort being the puzzle, be it through sabotage, strength or other means, but there is some merit in a puzzle idea (such as for Thaigs, as is rawgrims suggestion).

Modifié par Ecmoose, 08 septembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Lord Raijin]

I prefer puzzles and other intellectual quests rather than to use Cassandra as if she was a darkspawn Ogre to get inside the castle.

[aries1001]

I'm not sure about this: Is there a certain reason why you'd like puzzles instead of smashing through gates? And could it be just a simple one, like finding a key or picking the lock? Or did you have puzzles like in DA Legacy in mind? [Connect red wire a to blue button b etc]. Or would you also be fine with finding grenades or oil? to throw at the door/gates in the game?

[Rawgrim]

Angrywolves wrote...

DA isn't Brainlord, a snes rpg that was primarily puzzles.
A few puzzles are ok but too many can get old quickly.

You know in DA2. Where you can ask Aveline to step in and do stuff during conversations. Or have Varric bluff someone? The same could be used for puzzles, no? You ask someone in the party to "fix this" and they might know how. Puzzle gets solved. Or one could chose to do it as a puzzle and maybe get some extra XP that way.

[slimgrin]

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

Problem solving might be a better way to put it. Being able to smash down any barrier would be lame.

[Daerog]

I'm fine with the smashing. I just consider it an enchanted shield. I don't think an attacker has time for a puzzle with enemies trying to defend the keep, so I would consider it less believable than an enchantment designed to wither material of a certain density on a shield. At least in a fantasy game.

[ev76]

Puzzles are cool to open doors where there is treasure on the other side. I liked that ground puzzle on mark of the assassin, or trying to get out of an ancient trap like in legacy. I think smashing through a door when your doing a siege against a stronghold is fine, no need for puzzles there.

[Daerog]

slimgrin wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

Problem solving might be a better way to put it. Being able to smash down any barrier would be lame.

It's about consequences, you likely face more prepared enemies by smashing and making a mess than you would by sneaking in.

[Sejborg]

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

A puzzle can take many forms. For instance it could be having to throw a firespell or something though the gate to light something up that would trigger something.
Or there could be a latter lying somewhere you could use in a certain way to get past the obstacle. 
Use you imagination. Stuff like this can be pretty neat.