270 réponses à ce sujet

[Wissenschaft]

Sejborg wrote...

So there was this other thread that was closed. And I was having a discussion with Allan but I didn't get to reply before he closed the thread, and that seemed a bit unfair because I think I had a pretty good suggestion. 

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Are you trying to tell me that there will be puzzles instead of gate smashing in the final game?

I'm saying that your expectation for us to change flow and shift into a puzzle to show how we can stop and think isn't grounded in reality.  It's an imaginary solution that you think is acceptable, but in practice is not, because you're failing to understand the logistics of creating a demo that fits within an allotted time slot and the challenges that come simply because playing a game and watching someone else play the game is not the same thing.

First off. There is no need to be a dick about it.

Second. How is it not an acceptable solution to introduce a puzzle instead of gate smashing?

Third. I don't care about your logistics of creating a demo or your time slots, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. What I am suggesting is having a puzzle to get through the castle gates, instead of just hammering away at it, like we were playing a God of War game. 

 

lol, missing the point. Poor Allan was simply pointing out that there will be alternatives to just knocking down the gate and there may well be puzzles in the game. However, don't expect them to demonstrate puzzles in a demo because 1) lack of time 2) it would ruin the any good puzzle of they showed if off. 

And here you made a whole thread to denounce Allen's rejection of puzzles in DA games when thats not what he said at all.

I can hope I'm mistaken but this appears to be yet another troll thread that will be locked just like the last troll thread.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:05 .

[Ecmoose]

Rawgrim wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

DA isn't Brainlord, a snes rpg that was primarily puzzles.
A few puzzles are ok but too many can get old quickly.

You know in DA2. Where you can ask Aveline to step in and do stuff during conversations. Or have Varric bluff someone? The same could be used for puzzles, no? You ask someone in the party to "fix this" and they might know how. Puzzle gets solved. Or one could chose to do it as a puzzle and maybe get some extra XP that way.

Would be similar to ME1s omnigel system, only less technical and more reliant on who is in your party. Could be viable, though I'm always pretty hesitant about puzzles in games that aren't specifically puzzle games.

[Cutlasskiwi]

I'm absolutely fine with Cassandra smashing that gate. Weren't there other ways to get into the keep too? I like that solution a whole lot.

[Rawgrim]

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

[Ecmoose]

Sejborg wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

A puzzle can take many forms. For instance it could be having to throw a firespell or something though the gate to light something up that would trigger something.
Or there could be a latter lying somewhere you could use in a certain way to get past the obstacle. 
Use you imagination. Stuff like this can be pretty neat. 

And they mentioned that stuff like that would be in the game. As another poster stated it's more problem solving than puzzles.

[Savber100]

Sejborg wrote...

First off. There is no need to be a dick about it.

Second. How is it not an acceptable solution to introduce a puzzle instead of gate smashing?

Third. I don't care about your logistics of creating a demo or your time slots, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. What I am suggesting is having a puzzle to get through the castle gates, instead of just hammering away at it, like we were playing a God of War game. 

1) Really? Great start for a constructive discussion by pissing off mods.

2) He didn't say that was not a viable option in ANY PART OF HIS POST. 

3) WOW. My mind is blown. It has everything to do with it. A demo can't show the other options that one can do to siege the castle. You do realize that Bioware had 45 minutes to show the different features while avoiding spoilers and alternate routes, right? So yeah, the demo has everything do with the limited content we saw. 

THAT was the point Allan was trying to make. 


Seriously get rid of your high chair and rewrite that before this thread gets shut down, locking out another chance for constructive discussions. 

Modifié par Savber100, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:06 .

[Rawgrim]

I suspect actually coming up with puzzles for games can be very time consuming as well.

[FireAndBlood]

slimgrin wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

Problem solving might be a better way to put it. Being able to smash down any barrier would be lame.

The demo mentioned that they attacked patrols, poisened wells and other stuff before attacking the keep, so I doubt it would be as easy as walking up to a keep and smashing down its gate

[Uccio]

^^ Being the other option for Cassandra Hulk smashing the gate I´m all for it. 

Modifié par Ukki, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:07 .

[Rawgrim]

FireAndBlood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

I'd rather smash gates than solve a puzzle, seriously why a puzzle? Having our rogue lockpick the gate makes more sense.

Problem solving might be a better way to put it. Being able to smash down any barrier would be lame.

The demo mentioned that they attacked patrols, poisened wells and other stuff before attacking the keep, so I doubt it would be as easy as walking up to a keep and smashing down its gate

Ambushing patrols sounds fun. I like the idea of weakening them more and more before attacking.

[Zu Long]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

I'm absolutely fine with Cassandra smashing that gate. Weren't there other ways to get into the keep too? I like that solution a whole lot.

I too, am entirely in favor of gate-smashing.

[werewoof]

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

god bless 

im in the smash the damn gate camp. if yall like puzzles thats cool but to me theyre just tedious and annoying. i am awful at them and they manage to break my immersion which is tough because im usually good at suspension of disbelief. but when i gotta do a puzzle its like, now the story is not about my character making it through these hardships, it has to stop nad be about tiktac figuring out this dumb ass gate puzzle. or, you know, looking up the solution and tediously trying to make sure not to screw it up and have to redo it.

tldr no puzzles for me thanks 

[Rawgrim]

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

god bless 

im in the smash the damn gate camp. if yall like puzzles thats cool but to me theyre just tedious and annoying. i am awful at them and they manage to break my immersion which is tough because im usually good at suspension of disbelief. but when i gotta do a puzzle its like, now the story is not about my character making it through these hardships, it has to stop nad be about tiktac figuring out this dumb ass gate puzzle. or, you know, looking up the solution and tediously trying to make sure not to screw it up and have to redo it.

tldr no puzzles for me thanks 

I only like the ones I manage to solve 

[H. Birdman]

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure there will be some parts of the game that will require the party to solve puzzles. But BW has made it clear they want certain classes to have non-combat skills that open up new routes. The reward there is for speccing a character a certain way, not for figuring out a puzzle. So I just don't see how the two necessarily conflict. You can have both.

[Lord Raijin]

The only way that I can accept Cassandra's smashing the gate like she did in the PAX video is if the members of the seekers military are secretly injecting/snorting/etc themselves with a high dose of steroids... or perhaps this is a side effect from the long-term Lyrium usage? Perhaps in some people it doesn't cause them to have psychological disturbance but to have a physical effect?

[Kaiser of Hearts]

There's an ability that knocks down enemies by shouting. Warriors duel wielding longswords and archer making it rain a myriad of arrows. Knocking down a gate with a player with a high enough strength stat , isn't beyond the realm of possibility in the DA universe. Would rather smash the gate down than professor layton it, in that particular scenario 

Modifié par Kaiser of Hearts, 08 septembre 2013 - 07:15 .

[Elhanan]

Puzzles as options are OK, but prefer Medi-gel to avoid mini-games....

[werewoof]

Rawgrim wrote...

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

god bless 

im in the smash the damn gate camp. if yall like puzzles thats cool but to me theyre just tedious and annoying. i am awful at them and they manage to break my immersion which is tough because im usually good at suspension of disbelief. but when i gotta do a puzzle its like, now the story is not about my character making it through these hardships, it has to stop nad be about tiktac figuring out this dumb ass gate puzzle. or, you know, looking up the solution and tediously trying to make sure not to screw it up and have to redo it.

tldr no puzzles for me thanks 

I only like the ones I manage to solve 

the only time i manage to solve them without help is generally when i do it by accident like that weird flowing light thing in legacy. i just hit different poles until it turned colors and let me out of the room. 

[Uccio]

So how would smashing the gate with Hulk Cassandra fit in the picture with castle siege? It kind of nullifies any requirement to siege a castle if only one person can do what a army is usually needed for.

[lady_v23]

.......

[Rawgrim]

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

god bless 

im in the smash the damn gate camp. if yall like puzzles thats cool but to me theyre just tedious and annoying. i am awful at them and they manage to break my immersion which is tough because im usually good at suspension of disbelief. but when i gotta do a puzzle its like, now the story is not about my character making it through these hardships, it has to stop nad be about tiktac figuring out this dumb ass gate puzzle. or, you know, looking up the solution and tediously trying to make sure not to screw it up and have to redo it.

tldr no puzzles for me thanks 

I only like the ones I manage to solve 

the only time i manage to solve them without help is generally when i do it by accident like that weird flowing light thing in legacy. i just hit different poles until it turned colors and let me out of the room. 

Colour puzzles usually scuk for me, as I am semi-colourblind. Re-green-brown etc. So if they do add puzzles, I hope they have to do with symbols and not colours.

[WoolyJoe]

A'ight then:

On point 1: That's kinda uncalled for... Schumacher wasn't being particularly unreasonable.

Point 2: Schumacher never said it was unreasonable to introduce some kind of puzzle element into the game in order to open previously closed-off areas in replacement of/as an alternative to breaking down locked doors and/or gates. His point was that there are a series of reasons as to why you did not see BioWare exercise such a possibility in the PAX demo shown.

And point 3: ...It kinda appears this is more about you not having your idea garner the attention you think it deserves, as opposed to trying to discuss the gameplay mechanics shown and the reasons pertaining to exactly 'why?' Cassandra knocked down. And with her shield, if I'm not mistaken.
The point behind Alan's response, I think (as I'd sooner not speak for the guy...), is that he's not in a position where he can discuss whether or not they've definitely introduced, or definitely plan to introduce a 'puzzle mechanic' that can help one bypass certain locked-off areas/doors. And not, as you seem to have thought, that such puzzles are a ridiculous idea that would never make it into the finished game.

Just, you know... Play nice, guy. It's alright to speculate about possibilities and discuss what, why, and how, but not to be so vitriolic about stuff which is kinda just a teaser.

[werewoof]

Rawgrim wrote...

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

tiktac wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe puzzles for optional doors. Since not everyone likes puzzles.

god bless 

im in the smash the damn gate camp. if yall like puzzles thats cool but to me theyre just tedious and annoying. i am awful at them and they manage to break my immersion which is tough because im usually good at suspension of disbelief. but when i gotta do a puzzle its like, now the story is not about my character making it through these hardships, it has to stop nad be about tiktac figuring out this dumb ass gate puzzle. or, you know, looking up the solution and tediously trying to make sure not to screw it up and have to redo it.

tldr no puzzles for me thanks 

I only like the ones I manage to solve 

the only time i manage to solve them without help is generally when i do it by accident like that weird flowing light thing in legacy. i just hit different poles until it turned colors and let me out of the room. 

Colour puzzles usually scuk for me, as I am semi-colourblind. Re-green-brown etc. So if they do add puzzles, I hope they have to do with symbols and not colours.

i'm worst with memory puzzles. like that bridge thing in origins? if i have to remember the pattern i will probably be awful at it. 

so if it's difficult enough to make sense as a lock for a door, i'll hate it because it's too hard and i'm a weenie about puzzles, and if it's easy like those pillars in skyrim, it's still kind of breaking immersion because who in their right mind would make a locked door puzzle just three animal shapes on pillars with the answer on the wall across from you? that's a terrible locking mechanism.

but hey some people like 'em so i say just give us the option to bash the door open if we don't wanna do puzzles. maybe if we take iron bull with us he can break doors down, too.

[Mr.House]

Not every door should be a puzzle or need a key to open it. Some should be able to be bashed. I like that we can bash open doors now, but cleary that means it is God of War. OMG BG WAS GOD OF WAR!