270 réponses à ce sujet

[Milan92]

I liked the gate smashing option. Simple, but effective.

But I don't mind doing puzzles either.

[FireAndBlood]

Man some people are not gonna let this go.

[Wissenschaft]

Rawgrim wrote...
Ohhh yes. I remember those. Not much fun at all. But it would be fun if you could utilize your followers knowledge and background in order to solve puzzles, no? Making puzzles in a dwarven thaig easier if you have a dwarf with you, or something like that.

 

It would certainly give us a reason to switch party members depending on where your going. A dwarf for when your going into the deep roads, a Dalish Elf when visiting elven ruins.

[DaringMoosejaw]

FireAndBlood wrote...

Man some people are not gonna let this go.

They'll tucker themselves out eventually if you just let them keep swinging at it awhile. Then there will be something new to be outraged about in the next reveal! The cycle of life continues.

[Ecmoose]

Rawgrim wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I don`t remember ME2 having puzzles on doors, actually. Been awhile since I played it though.

It had a pretty annoying hacking system. I was happy to see it go.

Ohhh yes. I remember those. Not much fun at all. But it would be fun if you could utilize your followers knowledge and background in order to solve puzzles, no? Making puzzles in a dwarven thaig easier if you have a dwarf with you, or something like that.

That is soemthing I would actually like, because it would also be incentive to change your party to optimize getting through an area. It wouldn't be mandatory, but it's better than making a game where the only real advantage to your party roster is a mage for healing and you can drag around whoever else you want.

I think the other major point in this thread, is that game mechanics do not always denote lore or "in world" applications. Sometimes concessions need to be made for game flow or for those players who do not immediately realize that the best way to your objective is not always a battering ram. 

At least with DAI it's not mandatory and we can choose more "realistic" paths if we chose.

[Rawgrim]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Ohhh yes. I remember those. Not much fun at all. But it would be fun if you could utilize your followers knowledge and background in order to solve puzzles, no? Making puzzles in a dwarven thaig easier if you have a dwarf with you, or something like that.

 

It would certainly give us a reason to switch party members depending on where your going. A dwarf for when your going into the deep roads, a Dalish Elf when visiting elven ruins.

Quite right. Adds some planning into the mix. Might even be smart to read about the place you are going to in a codex beforehand too. Find out as much info as possible, and figure out who might serve you best as followers to that area.

[The Hierophant]

Il Divo wrote...

I think what this particular problem comes down to is where every player draws the line in the sand regarding acceptable levels of realism (or lack of). Two gameplay elements can be equally unrealistic, while (for whatever reason) a player takes issue with element A over element B.

I don't see anything wrong with disliking gate bashing, from an aesthetic standpoint. But I don't think it's particularly unrealistic in comparison to any other element we've seen in Dragon Age.

I have no problem realism it's the consistency. If DA's humans were that strong then i as Hawke could've easily ended the tyranny of locked doors.

It'll be hilarious if the ability couldn't be used on iron bolted doors though.

[Wulfram]

Il Divo wrote...

I think what this particular problem comes down to is where every player draws the line in the sand regarding acceptable levels of realism (or lack of). Two gameplay elements can be equally unrealistic, while (for whatever reason) a player takes issue with element A over element B.

I don't see anything wrong with disliking gate bashing, from an aesthetic standpoint. But I don't think it's particularly unrealistic in comparison to any other element we've seen in Dragon Age.

For me it's rather that the presence of other unrealistic elements doesn't excuse this one, but compounds it.

I could shrug off the gate thing if it was just that one thing.  But it's not, it's reflective of a design philosophy that seems to put "rule of cool" above anything else.

[Rawgrim]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

Man some people are not gonna let this go.

They'll tucker themselves out eventually if you just let them keep swinging at it awhile. Then there will be something new to be outraged about in the next reveal! The cycle of life continues.

Indeed. Nobody should have any negative opinions about any game at all.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Ohhh yes. I remember those. Not much fun at all. But it would be fun if you could utilize your followers knowledge and background in order to solve puzzles, no? Making puzzles in a dwarven thaig easier if you have a dwarf with you, or something like that.

 

It would certainly give us a reason to switch party members depending on where your going. A dwarf for when your going into the deep roads, a Dalish Elf when visiting elven ruins.

Quite right. Adds some planning into the mix. Might even be smart to read about the place you are going to in a codex beforehand too. Find out as much info as possible, and figure out who might serve you best as followers to that area.

What you're not realizing is that Cassandra DID open the gate in an extremely technical, intelligent fashion, as pioneered by Portal 2's Wheatley.

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:43 .

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...
For me it's rather that the presence of other unrealistic elements doesn't excuse this one, but compounds it.

I could shrug off the gate thing if it was just that one thing.  But it's not, it's reflective of a design philosophy that seems to put "rule of cool" above anything else.

But the problem is that the setting is inherently incohernet because of gameplay. The story wants to act like people are vulnerable in the way we would be IRL. But gameplay wise, all characters are unstoppable and unkillable engines of death if they drink some poultices, which they can craft on the fly as they're gettting hurt. 

[Ecmoose]

In Exile wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
For me it's rather that the presence of other unrealistic elements doesn't excuse this one, but compounds it.

I could shrug off the gate thing if it was just that one thing.  But it's not, it's reflective of a design philosophy that seems to put "rule of cool" above anything else.

But the problem is that the setting is inherently incohernet because of gameplay. The story wants to act like people are vulnerable in the way we would be IRL. But gameplay wise, all characters are unstoppable and unkillable engines of death if they drink some poultices, which they can craft on the fly as they're gettting hurt. 

Which emphasizes gameplay =/= lore. Look at how upset people are about no health regen. If they made a game where your characters were, from a technical standpoint, as vulnerable as they are from a story staindpoint, the game would obliterate most players and be ill received. There has to be a middle ground between gameplay and story,

[DaringMoosejaw]

Rawgrim wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

Man some people are not gonna let this go.

They'll tucker themselves out eventually if you just let them keep swinging at it awhile. Then there will be something new to be outraged about in the next reveal! The cycle of life continues.

Indeed. Nobody should have any negative opinions about any game at all.

You're allowed to have negative opinions, and I'm allowed to have negative opinions about your negative opinions, i.e., they are silly and pointless. You are THEN free to have negative opinions regarding the chastity of my mother, and I am free to have negative opinions regarding the relation between your ancestry and a herd of sheep.

[Wulfram]

In Exile wrote...

But the problem is that the setting is inherently incohernet because of gameplay. The story wants to act like people are vulnerable in the way we would be IRL. But gameplay wise, all characters are unstoppable and unkillable engines of death if they drink some poultices, which they can craft on the fly as they're gettting hurt. 

I accept hitpoints as an abstraction.  I don't see what bashing down a door is an abstraction of, I can't see how to take it any way but literally.

(and I also try to ignore the really obviously broken stuff like DA:O poultices.  You'll never see me say anything good about that abomination of a system)

edit:  Perhaps part of the issue is that I really don't see this as a matter of gameplay, even if it's not in a cutscene.  How you gain access to a fortress is story to me.  Maybe that's not really fair, but that's how it seems to me.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 septembre 2013 - 09:49 .

[Rawgrim]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

FireAndBlood wrote...

Man some people are not gonna let this go.

They'll tucker themselves out eventually if you just let them keep swinging at it awhile. Then there will be something new to be outraged about in the next reveal! The cycle of life continues.

Indeed. Nobody should have any negative opinions about any game at all.

You're allowed to have negative opinions, and I'm allowed to have negative opinions about your negative opinions, i.e., they are silly and pointless. You are THEN free to have negative opinions regarding the chastity of my mother, and I am free to have negative opinions regarding the relation between your ancestry and a herd of sheep.

Don` t worry My family doesn`t herd your family anymore Seriously, though. I wouldn`t think poorly of you just for disagreeing with me.

[Eveangaline]

Do you mean the literal gate smashing? Because they mentioned that you could also sneak into keeps through side doors and find ways in, or try to find underground caves that might have entrances into the keeps.

[Maverick827]

Why would the gate to a fortress be opened by a puzzle?

[DaringMoosejaw]

Rawgrim wrote...

Don` t worry My family doesn`t herd your family anymore Seriously, though. I wouldn`t think poorly of you just for disagreeing with me.

I was just making an allusion as to the typical fare in internet arguments.

[Rawgrim]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Don` t worry My family doesn`t herd your family anymore Seriously, though. I wouldn`t think poorly of you just for disagreeing with me.

I was just making an allusion as to the typical fare in internet arguments.

I know.

[Texhnolyze101]

Ukki wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Vapaä wrote...
Yes, because a crossbow shooting an anchor is much more realistic that bashing a 3-inch-thick door

Behold BSN's brand new dead horse, everybody gets his stick !

 

Lets be honest, beating dead horses is the BSN's favorite passtime.

Its not a door, its a metal gate created to keep intruders out.

And you can fire grappling hooks from crossbows. The orcs did it at Helm`s Deep.

Why do you even care that she smashed through the gate with 2 hits? its a video game not real life what is the problem here? are you whining just to have something to whine about?

Because Hulk Cassandra blows some of the realism out of the window?

people being able to throw fireballs from their hands already destroyed any type of realism .

[ScarMK]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

people being able to throw fireballs from their hands already destroyed any type of realism .

When people talk about realism, they often refer to internal consistancy.  Magic is explained and defined in the DA universe.  Mages teleporting in DA is not realistic, (Of course with this veil tear, the devs will likely throw any rules of magic out of the window.  They had what, 3 rules to magic and couldn't even keep that.)  but throwing a fireball is.

[slimgrin]

Maverick827 wrote...

Why would the gate to a fortress be opened by a puzzle?

You're right. Hulk smash is much better than a Deus Ex type of level navigation.  

[Vaeliorin]

In Exile wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
For me it's rather that the presence of other unrealistic elements doesn't excuse this one, but compounds it.

I could shrug off the gate thing if it was just that one thing.  But it's not, it's reflective of a design philosophy that seems to put "rule of cool" above anything else.

But the problem is that the setting is inherently incohernet because of gameplay. The story wants to act like people are vulnerable in the way we would be IRL. But gameplay wise, all characters are unstoppable and unkillable engines of death if they drink some poultices, which they can craft on the fly as they're gettting hurt.

For me personally, it's just a matter of it going beyond my personal willing suspension of disbelief.  It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother with a gate if someone can smash it down that easily.  I accept the gameplay making characters more durable (though I object to crafting mid-combat...I didn't even know you could in DA until I read someone posting about it...because why would I even try that?) in order to make the game play enjoyable, but a character smashing down a gate single-handedly, to me, does nothing to make the game more fun.  If anything, it makes it less fun.

It's not a dealbreaker by any stretch of the imagination, it's just a design decision that makes absolutely no sense to me.  Scaling ladders, grappling hooks, explosives, a ram, even tunneling (as I understood it, the Inquisition had been working on getting into that stronghold for a while, so they could have conceivably had engineers tunneling under the walls all that time) I could understand, but busting down the doors with a shield is just something I wish they'd done differently.  Hopefully, there will be other ways to get in that don't require having a warrior smash it down singlehandedly, so I'll be able to just ignore that the option even exists.

[Il Divo]

slimgrin wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Why would the gate to a fortress be opened by a puzzle?

You're right. Hulk smash is much better than a Deus Ex type of level navigation.  

Wait, how do we get Deus Ex type navigation from "puzzle"?

Edit: Ignoring of course that Dragon Age and Deus Ex are two completely different beasts.

Modifié par Il Divo, 08 septembre 2013 - 11:59 .

[Wissenschaft]

Il Divo wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Why would the gate to a fortress be opened by a puzzle?

You're right. Hulk smash is much better than a Deus Ex type of level navigation.  

Wait, how do we get Deus Ex type navigation from "puzzle"?

Edit: Ignoring of course that Dragon Age and Deus Ex are two completely different beasts.

 

Deus Ex uses a hacking puzzle in order to unlock doors, hence the name drop. Deus Ex is still as much an RPG as Mass Effect with a strong exploration element to the game so the comparison is valid.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 09 septembre 2013 - 12:02 .