270 réponses à ce sujet

[Urazz]

Former_Fiend wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

For years, people have complained that the needed rogues to unlock doors. 'Why can't fighters bash them down?' they'd ask. Bioware gives us the ability to use fighters to bash down doors and gates, and people now complain they can do it.

It's different people? 

This.

Now the question is whether or not we're gonna get to smash open chests.

I personally would like to see something like all classes can open chests, doors, etc. but can do so to varying degrees.

Here's how it would work

For chests, rogues can unlock all chests without losing any items. warriors can smash simple chests open but cannot smash the more complex ones.  Mages can melt the locks on all chests but have a chance to destroy an item inside.

For doors, Rogues can pick a lock on all doors except gates but more complex doors take a longer time.  Picking locks does not trigger traps and you get a bit of xp from doing so.

Warriors can smash open almost all doors quickly but some doors may be trapped to go off if smashed and the warrior cannot bash in gates.

Mages can blast all doors and cancan lift up some gates.  Opening doors in this fashion can trigger traps but can also cause enemies next to the door to take damage.  All attempts to open doors or gates cost mana to do so and gates will leave the mage drained of most mana.

On traps, they will not do much damage but the big factor on traps is that they'll put some sort of status effect on the character that triggers it.

Warriors that trigger traps will face reduced duration from triggering traps due to having a stronger body.  Mages can cure themselves of the effects of traps with magic while rogues will face the full duration of traps but are the only ones who can disarm them.

This way you don't necessarily need a balanced party to proceed through the game but it does reward you for doing so.

Modifié par Urazz, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:29 .

[Wissenschaft]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As it happens, I agree with Vael on this one.  My objection to mechanics such as this is based on exactly the same basis as my objection to level scaling (so I don't get how Vael and I can disagree so strongly on that point).  It damage's the setting's coherence.

 

Actually, I say the main reason people dislike level scaling is that it removes the sense of progress in the game. In an RPG a lot of players want to be able to feel more powerful at the end of the game and level scaling prevents that.

[ArtemisMoons]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The likelihood of alterations and iteration, even on shown content, is definitely still possible.  It's entirely possible that the scene gets altered in a way that is more palatable for more people.  It's also possible it's not.


The idea that scene attempts to convey (and it's tricky with only one playthrough) is that how you spec and prepare your character can affect how things play out and the options available to you.

Well like the instance where they showed the one guy with the shield in the keep. It was noted that he would not actually be alone in that situation. I figure it's likely to be the same with Cassandra and the keep gate. 

It could be done just to showcase another example of a combat skill being used in a non-combat situaiton.

Of course, there's always the chance that something will follow the demo exactly, but since it was more a demo of how the engine looks and to showcase certain aspects of the game rather than show storytelling (except the example of keep versus town), I figure that it's best to not assume that demo was law. 

Modifié par ArtemisMoons, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:33 .

[Rawgrim]

Just as a side note: The engine looks amazing. The graphics, the surrounding, the weather, the backgrounds, its just pure class.

[dduane o]

Can we just say that bashing and picking locks should depend on the situation?

From the gameplay in Pax Prime we saw Cassandra bashing down a gate using brute force and that kinda make sense, well the door was metal that it should have used more tries other than two, but it make sense on the occassion. The inquisitor was taking down a keep with force, there were already bloodshed infront of the keep that everyone would have been notified that every door/gate should be take down and get into a defensive position and the only way to get in is break everything down. The tone that should have been taken.

If the occasion was different, per-se, the inquisitor was a rogue or even Varric was great at Locpicking, and the Dragon Age team were able to have a sneak strategy then they could have dispatched the guards silently and the only problem was the locked gate and since the guys on the other side are unaware then it is then possible that lockpicking can be use and that doing puzzle can be use.

Now both skills should have the option of choice and control. Trying to be a rogue and wants to have a higher rate of lockpicking? Then have a high cunning, bigger chance of more puzzles. If you want to be a basher, then have high strenght and break everything you want. If you just want to order your companions then make sure they have the prerequisites. If you are a mage have the spell able to do the things. Rock Throw/Stonefist should be enough or Fireball.

So in FPS games, there's a dialogue box that shows up when bashing a door is about to happen and gives you a choice what kind of bashing you want to do. I understand that Dragon Age won't do that so that's not a big deal. Dragon Age: Origins had the method of your companion giving their help if you need theirs when opening doors and chests like Leliana saying "I could do that for you" or Zevran saying "need help?", some would would actually make it obvious you suck at picking locks. Dragon Age: Awakening, when Sigrun is in your party and you try to pick locks she would say "fail" and I could just switch to her if need be. So what they could add is if you are lacking the strength or skill then make sure you have a companion that could do it and switch them, just listen to them if they offer help.

Will BioWare do this, we don't know, let's just ask them nicely and let them consider it. Can they add this later on, sure. There was a mod in Origins that made the warrior bash locks, so it is possible. Just let them finish the game's story and design and stuff because they know what they should be doing. Sure, players suggestion is also important and we should give it to them but not in an argument for and pisses them off more.

ps. Dual wielding should be back. seriously. I know, there's a thread for that but, yeah.

[Lokiwithrope]

Now, gate bashing would make sense if you had a really strong character, like Shale. After all, one of your dialogue options in Origins was to call Shale a portable battering-ram. Otherwise, you should have to bring a mage who's skilled in offensive magic. Or a good ol' fashioned sapper. If the darkspawn can make bombs, so can we.

[Little Princess Peach]

I do like puzzles in the game, Dragon age team dose really great job when it comes to the puzzles, but If I had one during the end game it would feel a tad out of place, for me unless it's inside the keep.

AT the risk of sounding idiotic, I was hoping to charge a castle or a warden fortress with an army

[StanojeZ]

The demo would have been so much more exciting if the Inquisitor had opened the door by sitting down to do the Towers of Hanoi, right?



Right?

[metatheurgist]

I'm still finding it hard to reconcile that for some it's perfectly acceptable for an ordinary human being without the strength to bash down a gate to be able to kill a 20 ton armored fire breathing flying tank that has the magic to have magically enhanced strength and speed, but beating down a gate is crossing the threshold of disbelief?

And yet stopping to solve a puzzle is somehow better? The idea that fortress gates have pickable locks (this is just utterly preposterous) is better? That gates designed to repel attack have loopholes that can be accessed by firing spells at magic spots is better?

Modifié par metatheurgist, 09 septembre 2013 - 02:30 .

[andrew252]

slimgrin wrote...

andrew252 wrote...

i think instead of smashing the gate....we should kick it open

That's like dudebro awesome, dude. Maybe we should be wearing a Raiders helmet while we do it?

*fistbump*

I cant tell if that sarcastic....or if even asari can comprehend sarcasem. We might never know....

[Sylvius the Mad]

We don't know enough about the gate-smashing mechanic to criticise it, at this point. Cassandra might have required extensive preparation to be able to do that. The gates might have required preparation in order to do that (maybe we previously had to bribe a guard to paint them with acid the night before).

On its face, yes, it looks a bit silly, but any number of details of which we're unaware might make it less so.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Actually, I say the main reason people dislike level scaling is that it removes the sense of progress in the game. In an RPG a lot of players want to be able to feel more powerful at the end of the game and level scaling prevents that.

I'd say that's largely the same thing.

[Realmzmaster]

Correct me if I am wrong but the video shows Cassandra using a skill called Shatter Armor which she also uses on the enemy Behemoth to punch a hole in its armor. I simply think that portion of the video was to show off that skill. It is a pre-alpha demo much can change before the game ships.

I find it interesting that some gamers see gatebashing as unrealistic when I find the whole subject of instant/slow health regeneration as unrealistic along with Scattershot, Flicker, Massacre, Frightening Appearance, Burst Arrow or Hail of Arrows. As I have stated in threads before it all come down to how much or how little realism a gamer wants in his/her fantasy.

I have no problem with puzzles, but gaining entrance to a keep while there are wandering enemy patrols would not be a place I would use a puzzle

[LTD]

It is sad thing we live in times where mere idea of puzzles in RPG feels like some hostile insult to people playing RPGs. Single player experience in RPGs is very rarely challenging/difficult/competitive. Certainly not unless player wishes for it.

When was the last time you did not know what to do in your RPG?* Last time it was not immemdiately clear how to nudge the story next step onwards? Is it only a good thing these moments are usually completely non-existant in modern RPGs?

It is downright sad how few tools almost all modern RPGs have in store for challenging player;  If player insists on it, combat can be difficult. And..well that's pretty much it. Legend of Grimrock and The Secret World felt incredibly, beautifully fresh breaths of wind in this regard. They reminded me of how reality could be very different. And how good puzzle/riddle/mystery to solve or investigate can, in modern video games, be something so much more than some Tower of Hanoi variant.



*something simple and dismissable like failing to notice lever in wall at some SKyrim dungeon doesn't count!

Modifié par LTD, 09 septembre 2013 - 03:02 .

[andrew252]

LTD wrote...

It is sad thing we live in times where mere idea of puzzles in RPG feels like some hostile insult to people playing RPGs. Single player experience in RPGs is very rarely challenging/difficult/competitive. Certainly not unless player wishes for it.

When was the last time you did not know what to do in your RPG?* Last time it was not immemdiately clear how to nudge the story next step onwards? Is it only a good thing these moments are usually completely non-existant in modern RPGs?

It is downright sad how few tools almost all modern RPGs have in store for challenging player;  If player insists on it, combat can be difficult. And..well that's pretty much it. Legend of Grimrock and The Secret World felt incredibly, beautifully fresh breaths of wind in this regard. They reminded me of how reality could be very different. And how good puzzle/riddle/mystery to solve or investigate can, in modern video games, be something so much more than some Tower of Hanoi variant.



*something simple and dismissable like failing to notice lever in wall at some SKyrim dungeon doesn't count!

i understand what your saying, my frist time playing wow and i had abo****ely no idea what i was supposed to do and i managed to run into a bear that one shots me, good times

[Eveangaline]

I have to admit I'm honestly surprised anyone didn't like Cassandras door smash.

[andrew252]

Eveangaline wrote...

I have to admit I'm honestly surprised anyone didn't like Cassandras door smash.

Would of gotten much more likes if she head butted it down

[andrew252]

Filament wrote...

andrew252 wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

I have to admit I'm honestly surprised anyone didn't like Cassandras door smash.

Would of gotten much more likes if she head butted it down

She has to make the horns with her index fingers while she does it.

Most likely shes going to use all her fingers

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
For years, I've been asking you to avoid engaging in reasoning that leads to conclusions that damage your gameplay experience, and you've refused.

But now, on this point, you advocate that very thing.

I've always been for gameplay/story segregation. I don't think setting coherence is a thing that we can accurately model yet, or even should model. 

Granted.  The presence of the Circle Mages at Ostagar is a serious issue.  Perhaps they should have added a mechanic like proximity to the archdemon giving the darkspawn elemental resistance. 

Frankly, they should really just industrially manufacture anti-fire runes and armour and then have mages fireball/firestorm/inferno an entire battlefield permanently against darkspawn. 

[Rawgrim]

LTD wrote...

It is sad thing we live in times where mere idea of puzzles in RPG feels like some hostile insult to people playing RPGs. Single player experience in RPGs is very rarely challenging/difficult/competitive. Certainly not unless player wishes for it.

When was the last time you did not know what to do in your RPG?* Last time it was not immemdiately clear how to nudge the story next step onwards? Is it only a good thing these moments are usually completely non-existant in modern RPGs?

It is downright sad how few tools almost all modern RPGs have in store for challenging player;  If player insists on it, combat can be difficult. And..well that's pretty much it. Legend of Grimrock and The Secret World felt incredibly, beautifully fresh breaths of wind in this regard. They reminded me of how reality could be very different. And how good puzzle/riddle/mystery to solve or investigate can, in modern video games, be something so much more than some Tower of Hanoi variant.



*something simple and dismissable like failing to notice lever in wall at some SKyrim dungeon doesn't count!

So very very true.

[phunx]

Rawgrim wrote...

LTD wrote...

It is sad thing we live in times where mere idea of puzzles in RPG feels like some hostile insult to people playing RPGs. Single player experience in RPGs is very rarely challenging/difficult/competitive. Certainly not unless player wishes for it.

When was the last time you did not know what to do in your RPG?* Last time it was not immemdiately clear how to nudge the story next step onwards? Is it only a good thing these moments are usually completely non-existant in modern RPGs?

It is downright sad how few tools almost all modern RPGs have in store for challenging player;  If player insists on it, combat can be difficult. And..well that's pretty much it. Legend of Grimrock and The Secret World felt incredibly, beautifully fresh breaths of wind in this regard. They reminded me of how reality could be very different. And how good puzzle/riddle/mystery to solve or investigate can, in modern video games, be something so much more than some Tower of Hanoi variant.



*something simple and dismissable like failing to notice lever in wall at some SKyrim dungeon doesn't count!

So very very true.

If I may comment on that; there are probably several different reasons why games don't have hard and tidious puzzles anymore. Developers probably don't want players to quit their game (and possibly not buy the next one) out of frustration, the market is huge, so they could easily play something else. Also the average age of gamers is increasing, we simply don't have the whole summer vacation to play a huge RPG anymore.
I agree however, that Legend of Grimrock had some awesome secrets and The Secret World is a gem among MMOs.

[Hey]

having trouble imaging a puzzle that fits here but if it works sure. id rather they make it so you have to weaken the door with magic or bombs and then bust through

[Ozzy]

StanojeZ wrote...

The demo would have been so much more exciting if the Inquisitor had opened the door by sitting down to do the Towers of Hanoi, right?



Right?

The crowd would have exploded. 

[Rawgrim]

phunx wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

LTD wrote...

It is sad thing we live in times where mere idea of puzzles in RPG feels like some hostile insult to people playing RPGs. Single player experience in RPGs is very rarely challenging/difficult/competitive. Certainly not unless player wishes for it.

When was the last time you did not know what to do in your RPG?* Last time it was not immemdiately clear how to nudge the story next step onwards? Is it only a good thing these moments are usually completely non-existant in modern RPGs?

It is downright sad how few tools almost all modern RPGs have in store for challenging player;  If player insists on it, combat can be difficult. And..well that's pretty much it. Legend of Grimrock and The Secret World felt incredibly, beautifully fresh breaths of wind in this regard. They reminded me of how reality could be very different. And how good puzzle/riddle/mystery to solve or investigate can, in modern video games, be something so much more than some Tower of Hanoi variant.



*something simple and dismissable like failing to notice lever in wall at some SKyrim dungeon doesn't count!

So very very true.

If I may comment on that; there are probably several different reasons why games don't have hard and tidious puzzles anymore. Developers probably don't want players to quit their game (and possibly not buy the next one) out of frustration, the market is huge, so they could easily play something else. Also the average age of gamers is increasing, we simply don't have the whole summer vacation to play a huge RPG anymore.
I agree however, that Legend of Grimrock had some awesome secrets and The Secret World is a gem among MMOs.

Good point.