518 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

iakus wrote...

Do people complain that Mordin's death in the Shroud is grimdark?

Do people complain that Thane's final prayer to Shepard is grimdark?

How about Anderson's "I'm proud of you" moment?

Well, people are also not insinuating that those sacrifices were "contrived," except for Thane's. And those who liked Thane and believe he got the shaft generally don't care for that final prayer, I've seen -- it just does nothing for them.

That's why I think the lack of a "proper death" is a BS complaint, as if one would be less angry if they did get one. We'll never know, but I would dare to guess they would not only be just as unhappy, but they'd complain about having to see it.

The death of geth and EDI serves no purpose in the game than to be deaths.  It's meant purely to be a roadblock to the Destroy ending rather than be a natural extension of it.

If a sacrifice has to be made, it has to have meaning.  Not be some arbitrary offscreen death that people can laugh at as they stroke their renegade epeen.

If it's just a contrived roadblock/forced death, seeing it happen won't do away with those complaints.

I'd have thought the proper response would be something like: "well, at least they didn't try to guilt-trip us with their deaths by shoving it in our faces." That, of course, would mean not hating something about the ending. We can't have that.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 09 septembre 2013 - 12:57 .

[TheMyron]

Sorry, not going to sacrifice my dreams of a family so that idiot pilot can keep his sexbot.

[Iakus]

Necanor wrote...

I never thought Terminator's ending was sad at all.

But it was fitting.  That's the point.  It actually felt like a sacrifice, there was a decent goodbye, and it wasn't an arbitrary, tacked on consequence.

[KaiserShep]

I don't see the problem with EDI trying to be more human. She was created by humans, and interacts primarily with a human crew. Is Data's character cheapened for doing the same?

[wolfhowwl]

EDI and Joker creeped me out.

iakus wrote...
This is why I find Destroy intolerable.  To
quote Harry Dresden "It's not enough to stand against the darkness.  You
must stand apart from it too"

Fortunately, destroy isn't the only choice...

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:05 .

[Br3admax]

TheMyron wrote...

Sorry, not going to sacrifice my dreams of a family so that idiot pilot can keep his sexbot.

I know you say this in every single thread about the ending, but you should know that Shepard will probably die childess.  Just to let you know. 

[Iakus]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

That's why I think the lack of a "proper death" is a BS complaint, as if one would be less angry if they did get one. We'll never know, but I would dare to guess they would not only be just as unhappy, but they'd complain about having to see it.

There may well be people who would not be happy if they got a proper death.  

But that may depend on what peple see as a proper dath to begin with.

To me, it means that they willingly sacrifice themselves to stop the reapers, knowing what will happen to them, and willing to accept it.  Ideally, with a final chance to say farewell.

If it's just a contrived roadblock/forced death, seeing it happen won't do away with those complaints.

I'd have thought the proper response would be something like: "well, at least they didn't try to guilt-trip us with their deaths by shoving it in our faces." That, of course, would mean not hating something about the ending. We can't have that.

Not the point.  See above.

Destroy should have either:

1) Left the geth alone, let the damaged relys and the other races have to fix them without reaper aid be the consequence
or
2) Make the deaths meaningful to the destruction of the Reapers.  Not some drawn-out death scene, but make it a needed sacrifice, which they allow to happen.  Not an arbitrary consequence of the action.  Again, see Mordin 's death to disburse the genophage cure as an example.

[Sir DeLoria]

iakus wrote...

Necanor wrote...

I never thought Terminator's ending was sad at all.

But it was fitting.  That's the point.  It actually felt like a sacrifice, there was a decent goodbye, and it wasn't an arbitrary, tacked on consequence.

But this way of demise for the Geth is more fitting, because it's only a very minor sacrifice in comparision. EDI's death is nothing, it was a crew member like any other.

Not that I care though, leaving the Geth alive on Rannoch violates my Paragon principles.

Modifié par Necanor, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:06 .

[Sir DeLoria]

wolfhowwl wrote...

EDI and Joker creeped me out.

iakus wrote...
This is why I find Destroy intolerable.  To
quote Harry Dresden "It's not enough to stand against the darkness.  You
must stand apart from it too"

Fortunately, destroy isn't the only choice...

It's the best choice. Creepy cyborg world or oppressive dictatorship are far worse than a bunch of broken robots.

[David7204]

You know, it's funny. We have plenty of people on this forum touting how much they 'think for themselves.' How developers should never, ever impose their opinions on them. How THEIR story and Shepard is just so independent from what those silly developers want.

And I wonder to myself how many people would consider AIs 'not alive' if it was never an issue. If AIs were considered alive, and that was just the end of it. If it was obvious to every character in game, regardless of their other opinions on synthetics. Even if they hated them, it was obvious to them they were alive.

Isn't that incredibly convienant? We have a good amount of Renegade players basically doing exactly what the writers told them to do. The story told them that Renegades think Synthetics aren't alive, and so that's what they think and argue. They story spoodfed it to them and they ate it right up. BioWare spoonfed it to them and they ate it right up.

How else can you explain so many 'Renegade' players demanding that Synthetics aren't alive and few Paragon players saying? Why would so many supposedly 'pragmatic' think that Artificial Intelligences can't be alive? I don't see why there should be any correlation at all, let alone the very strong one we see here on the BSN.

And the funniest part of all is that the same people are the ones who love to tout how independent they are. How they don't have to think what BioWare tells them to think.

Modifié par David7204, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:14 .

[wolfhowwl]

But synthetics are not even alive. Not really. They're just a machine and machines can be broken.

Necanor wrote...
It's the best choice. Creepy cyborg world or oppressive dictatorship are far worse than a bunch of broken robots.

Pfft, the galaxy must be governed and we know who will do it best.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:14 .

[dreamgazer]

The funniest part is, in fact, all those generalizations.

[Sir DeLoria]

David7204 wrote...
*Blah, blah, blah*

Isn't that incredibly convienant? We have a good amount of Renegade players basically doing exactly what they told them to. The story told them that Renegades think Synthetics aren't alive, and so that's what they think and argue. They story spoodfed it to them and they ate it right up. BioWare spoonfed it to them.

Ate it right up.

And the funniest part of all is that the same people are the ones who love to tout how independent they are. How they don't have to think what BioWare tells them to think.

Doesn't the existence of Synthetic-hating Paragons contradict that? I don't care of what morality type my decisions are, I pick what I agree on and it happens to be that I always go full Paragon.

[David7204]

Are those not valid generalizations, dreamgazer? Can you point me to Paragon players who assert that Synthetics are not alive? I can point you to plenty of Renegade players who assert they aren't alive.

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

You know, it's funny. We have plenty of people on this forum touting how much they 'think for themselves.' How developers should never, ever impose their opinions on them. How THEIR story and Shepard is just so independent from what those silly developers want.

And I wonder to myself how many people would consider AIs 'not alive' if it was never an issue. If AIs were considered alive, and that was just the end of it. If it was obvious to every character in game, regardless of their other opinions on synthetics. Even if they hated them, it was obvious to them they were alive.

Isn't that incredibly convienant? We have a good amount of Renegade players basically doing exactly what the writers told them to do. The story told them that Renegades think Synthetics aren't alive, and so that's what they think and argue. They story spoodfed it to them and they ate it right up. BioWare spoonfed it to them and they ate it right up.

How else can you explain so many 'Renegade' players demanding that Synthetics aren't alive and few Paragon players saying? Why would so many supposedly 'pragmatic' think that Artificial Intelligences can't be alive? I don't see why there should be any correlation at all, let alone the very strong one we see here on the BSN.

And the funniest part of all is that the same people are the ones who love to tout how independent they are. How they don't have to think what BioWare tells them to think.

That's a very nice anecdote.

Modifié par Ravensword, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:16 .

[David7204]

Necanor wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Isn't that incredibly convienant? We have a good amount of Renegade players basically doing exactly what the writers told them to do. The story told them that Renegades think Synthetics aren't alive, and so that's what they think and argue. They story spoodfed it to them and they ate it right up. BioWare spoonfed it to them and they ate it right up.

How else can you explain so many 'Renegade' players demanding that Synthetics aren't alive and few Paragon players saying? Why would so many supposedly 'pragmatic' think that Artificial Intelligences can't be alive? I don't see why there should be any correlation at all, let alone the very strong one we see here on the BSN.

And the funniest part of all is that the same people are the ones who love to tout how independent they are. How they don't have to think what BioWare tells them to think.

Doesn't the existence of Synthetic-hating Paragons contradict that? I don't care of what morality type my decisions are, I pick what I agree on and it happens to be that I always go full Paragon.

It would, if you could point out a good number of Synthetic-hating Paragons. Maybe 3 or 4. Can you?

Modifié par David7204, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:18 .

[Sir DeLoria]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...
It's the best choice. Creepy cyborg world or oppressive dictatorship are far worse than a bunch of broken robots.

Pfft, the galaxy must be governed and we know who will do it best.

*insert Lord Acton quote*

[Steelcan]

Synthetic are alive, I just don't care

[Sir DeLoria]

David7204 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

David7204 wrote...
*Blah, blah, blah*

Ate it right up.

And the funniest part of all is that the same people are the ones who love to tout how independent they are. How they don't have to think what BioWare tells them to think.

Doesn't the existence of Synthetic-hating Paragons contradict that? I don't care of what morality type my decisions are, I pick what I agree on and it happens to be that I always go full Paragon.

It would, if you could point out a good number of Synthetic-hating Paragons. Maybe 3 or 4. Can you?

Half the Tali fanbase?

[TheMyron]

Br3ad wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

Sorry, not going to sacrifice my dreams of a family so that idiot pilot can keep his sexbot.

I know you say this in every single thread about the ending, but you should know that Shepard will probably die childess.  Just to let you know. 

Considering the Conduit would have been shot from a safe distance, and with either Jack or Ashley as my main LI, I don't think that Shepard would die childless.

[Br3admax]

Oh, Necanor. Did you just really use the Tali fanbase to help your argument? Very bad move.

[David7204]

Well, that argument collapses as soon as you pointed out that they're members of the Tali fanbase. Thank you, I didn't consider that.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

Are those not valid generalizations, dreamgazer? Can you point me to Paragon players who assert that Synthetics are not alive? I can point you to plenty of Renegade players who assert they aren't alive.

Can't really speak for the Paragon association, but you'll find plenty of renegades who acknowledge synthetics as some form of life.