518 réponses à ce sujet

[Hey]

i didnt laugh or anything

[General TSAR]

Simple yet profound, thumbs RatThing.

Zaz

[Cobalt2113]

RatThing wrote...

"slaves" were born free, AI were created for a purpose.

So, by that logic a cloned human would have no rights.

[RatThing]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

RatThing wrote...

"slaves" were born free, AI were created for a purpose.

So, by that logic a cloned human would have no rights.

The Hell-...???? A cloned human is still natures design.

[Cobalt2113]

And if it were genetically engineerec what then? That'd no longer be natures design.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 09 septembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[Zazzerka]

General TSAR wrote...

Zaz

Sup.

[General TSAR]

I was gonna say a tip of the hat to you, but my Ipad doesn't allow for editing on BSN.

[RatThing]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

And if it were genetically engineerec what then? That'd no longer be natures design.

And where do genes come from?

Allright, I'm not going there again. Last time I diskussed this it ended badly for the thread. Just two last things
one: It's highly ridiculous to apply concepts of human civilisation on anything but humans. Slavery just as racism are ideas on treating other humans and nothing else.
two: Where does this idea come from that with intelligence comes everything that makes a living being. Do AI we have today try to survive? Do they have instincts like even the lowest life forms? No, they just do what they were designed for.

[KaiserShep]

General TSAR wrote...

I was gonna say a tip of the hat to you, but my Ipad doesn't allow for editing on BSN.

Really? It does on the iPhone just fine.

[General TSAR]

Maybe my IPad is starting its subtle rebellion, I better nip this on on the bud before it strikes.
.........
Oh damn it, it knows.

[Cobalt2113]

Where do computer chips come from?

Silicon and copper. Everything comes from nature if you break it down far enough.

Second point... at the moment no self aware AI exists. But were not talking about our world, we're discussing a fictional world where sentient AI do exist. Also note that I never said intelligence = alive. I said sentience = alive. That's not just intelligence. That's intelligence + self awareness.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:10 .

[General TSAR]

AIs are tools, nothing more.

[RatThing]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

Where do computer chips come from?

Silicon and copper. Everything comes from nature if you break it down far enough.

Second point... at the moment no self aware AI exists. But were not talking about our world, we're discussing a fictional world where sentient. Also note that I never said intelligence = alive. I said sentience = alive. That's not just intelligence. That's intelligence + self awareness.

Gene --> molecular unit of heredity of a living organism. (yes, it's from wikipedia)
Silicon and copper --> dead objects.

And I'd argue that self awareness comes with/after survival instinct. But I just stop here. You can do all kinds of crazy **** in fiction.

[Cobalt2113]

Have you never heard of silicon based life? An entirely plausible theory.

Your stuck in the same trap that a lot of people get stuck in.

Organic = alive
Anything else = not alive

It isn't that simple.

Modifié par Cobalt2113, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:23 .

[RatThing]

You mean silicon based genes, just like our carbon based genes? Sure I heard of that.

[Propelled Rage]

I'm not even sure why there was the need to consider the Geth and EDI in the same category as the reapers in the destroy ending but that is another discussion I guess.

OT I was actually more concerned about wiping out geth now that I had established peace between them & quarians and how they now have free will. EDI yeah you could say so, but there were lots of sacrifices made in the entire trilogy which held imo greater impact on Shepard's and the player psyche. It felt bad yes, but you can say the same about Kaiden/Ashley and numerous others.

Modifié par Propelled Rage, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:31 .

[MrFob]

I do feel bad for EDI in the destroy ending, as well s for the geth.
The way they are portrayed in the ME universe, AIs are full fledged sentient beings and as such, they have to be considered equal with organic sentient beings. This is not only for moral reasons but also a simple matter of conflict prevention.
I can absolutely understand and approve of the council's law against creation of AIs. It falls into the same category why creation of clones is outlawed in the ME universe. However, there is one critical element missing in the council's legislation. It should have specified what happens if an AI is created, deliberately or by accident (as was the case with the geth). it should have been stipulated that as soon as it is indicated that a self aware AI exists, it has a special set of rights, equivalent to our human rights (though obviously adapted in some ways to fit the differences synthetics vs. organics).
Had that been the case, the council could have properly intervened in the morning war 300 years ago, preventing a hell of a lot of difficulties for both sides.
The only reason why any AI in the ME universe is hostile against organics is because they are not given a chance to coexist. Once that constraint is removed, they are all quite amicable.

And the entire distinction between organic and synthetic species due to their building block makes no sense, certainly not in the ME universe and I think even in the real word, constraining the possibility of life to the fact that it is made up of a specific set of amino acids is rather narrow minded.

[Propelled Rage]

MrFob wrote...
And the entire distinction between organic and synthetic species due to their building block makes no sense, certainly not in the ME universe and I think even in the real word, constraining the possibility of life to the fact that it is made up of a specific set of amino acids is rather narrow minded.

I think it does, if you go by what's shown in Synthesis.

[Cobalt2113]

RatThing wrote...

You mean silicon based genes, just like our carbon based genes? Sure I heard of that.

Not just just genes but structure as well. And that such a being would not fit our narrow definition of organic. Seeing that organic has to be carbon based.

Good Im glad you've accepted the possibility of non-organic life.

[RatThing]

Cobalt2113 wrote...
Good Im glad you've accepted the possibility of non-organic life.

No I didn't. I just don't want to discuss it anymore. I won't convince you and you won't convince me. Just don't throw all that talk about "slavery" or "racism" on me and we'll get along just fine.

[MrFob]

Propelled Rage wrote...

MrFob wrote...
And the entire distinction between organic and synthetic species due to their building block makes no sense, certainly not in the ME universe and I think even in the real word, constraining the possibility of life to the fact that it is made up of a specific set of amino acids is rather narrow minded.

I think it does, if you go by what's shown in Synthesis.

Maybe I was unclear, when I wrote "distinction" above, I meant it as seeing one as life versus the other as non-life (whihc is what the discussion here seemed to be about).
But synthesis just goes to show that both parties are equal in terms of their sentience. The onlz difference is that they are built differently and therefore somehow can't seem to understand each toher in any way but synthesis (at least that's what the catalyst implies and frankly, it doesn't make much sense to me at all).
I mean, if synthetics were not just as valid as sentient beings as organics, what would be the point of the whole merging? Someone who chooses synthesis has obviously already accepted synthetics as life (after all, they make themselves almost one).

Modifié par MrFob, 09 septembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Cobalt2113]

Well you have, whether you realise it or not. Unless you wish to state that silicon based life is completely impossible then you're admitting that possibility.

Also who said anything about racism? Certainly not me.

[Hazegurl]

MEHEM, nope, she lives
Destroy, yeah but it was worth it to kill the reapers.