180 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks.

[Zack_Nero]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nah, Generic White Man #47 is fine.

The demos are for marketing. What works best is chosen for marketing. Generic White Male works best.

You know you can choose different races, genders, colors. They don't need to showcase that.

Yea, plus they already have a default character that they are going to use, which isn't that big of a deal cause we all know about the mulitple races and genders we can play as.

[Sabariel]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nah, Generic White Man #47 is fine.

The demos are for marketing. What works best is chosen for marketing. Generic White Male works best.

You know you can choose different races, genders, colors. They don't need to showcase that.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

[Ecmoose]

Sabariel wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Nah, Generic White Man #47 is fine.

The demos are for marketing. What works best is chosen for marketing. Generic White Male works best.

You know you can choose different races, genders, colors. They don't need to showcase that.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Except that Generic White Males are still a majority for the market, so that's how they can appeal to the larger audience.

I'd love to see more main characters as strong women, or minorities (especially being a person of color myself) but as long as the main demographic isn't either of those, we're going to see protagonist that pander to the largest buyer market.

For now I'm content to be exited that they've released concept art detracting from the usual, and I'll be pleasently surprised if their default Inquisitor is not a generic white male, but I won't hold my breath either.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:13 .

[Ecmoose]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Why is it time for a change? Because YOU think there needs to be a change? That's not a valid reason.

When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.

Representation for representation's sake doesn't belong. In my opinion it doesn't belong in anything period, but for this conversation it doesn't belong in marketing.

Btw, just so you know, I'm not a white male. I'm also heading to bed--I'll respond to any responses in about 10-11 hours.

Not even political representation?

[Sabariel]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Why is it time for a change? Because YOU think there needs to be a change? That's not a valid reason.

When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.

Representation for representation's sake doesn't belong. In my opinion it doesn't belong in anything period, but for this conversation it doesn't belong in marketing.

Btw, just so you know, I'm not a white male. I'm also heading to bed--I'll respond to any responses in about 10-11 hours.

How will non-Generic White Males ever draw enough "attention" if no one gives them a shot in the first place?

[phunx]

EntropicAngel wrote...
When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.
.

I honestly don't believe we have enough sample size to determine what actually works best, cause the vast majority of published games went with the standard Generic White Guy #47.

[Ecmoose]

Sabariel wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Why is it time for a change? Because YOU think there needs to be a change? That's not a valid reason.

When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.

Representation for representation's sake doesn't belong. In my opinion it doesn't belong in anything period, but for this conversation it doesn't belong in marketing.

Btw, just so you know, I'm not a white male. I'm also heading to bed--I'll respond to any responses in about 10-11 hours.

How will non-Generic White Males ever draw enough "attention" if no one gives them a shot in the first place?

Because that's how marketing works. They're statistically the biggest market. Financial projections can be made off of their existence alone. As long as using a white male protagonist is succesful in a majority of games, then it will still be used. 

Don't expect corporations to look for a different approach unless their old one has stopped working. If you want representation for those of us who aren't generic white males, check the indie market. You'll have more luck.

[Sabariel]

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Why is it time for a change? Because YOU think there needs to be a change? That's not a valid reason.

When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.

Representation for representation's sake doesn't belong. In my opinion it doesn't belong in anything period, but for this conversation it doesn't belong in marketing.

Btw, just so you know, I'm not a white male. I'm also heading to bed--I'll respond to any responses in about 10-11 hours.

How will non-Generic White Males ever draw enough "attention" if no one gives them a shot in the first place?

Because that's how marketing works. They're statistically the biggest market. Financial projections can be made off of their existence alone. As long as using a white male protagonist is succesful in a majority of games, then it will still be used. 

Don't expect corporations to look for a different approach unless their old one has stopped working. If you want representation for those of us who aren't generic white males, check the indie market. You'll have more luck.

So your advice is to sit back, not ask for or demand change, pick one's nose, and play indie games. No thanks.

Modifié par Sabariel, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:27 .

[Ecmoose]

Sabariel wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

Why is it time for a change? Because YOU think there needs to be a change? That's not a valid reason.

When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.

Representation for representation's sake doesn't belong. In my opinion it doesn't belong in anything period, but for this conversation it doesn't belong in marketing.

Btw, just so you know, I'm not a white male. I'm also heading to bed--I'll respond to any responses in about 10-11 hours.

How will non-Generic White Males ever draw enough "attention" if no one gives them a shot in the first place?

Because that's how marketing works. They're statistically the biggest market. Financial projections can be made off of their existence alone. As long as using a white male protagonist is succesful in a majority of games, then it will still be used. 

Don't expect corporations to look for a different approach unless their old one has stopped working. If you want representation for those of us who aren't generic white males, check the indie market. You'll have more luck.

So your advice is to sit back, not ask for or demand change, pick one's nose, and play indie games. No thanks.

Considering the gaming market is actually making a huge shift towards indie games at the moment, then yes, you've got half my point. Support the games that pick protagonists that stray from the norm. Help skew marketing trends towards something other than the generic white male. But until those statistics  are strong enough, I wouldn't expect it from larger corporations no matter how much you shout on a forum.

Forums are great places to give feedback, and they are great places to voice your opinion, but the type of change required to represent nonwhite nonmale groups is larger than a forum post on BSN.

[Volourn]

"How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks."

Don't be racist. Plus, BIO has sued more than the 'white man' in their advertising.


"Considering the gaming market is actually making a huge shift towards indie games at the moment, then yes, you've got half my point."

Define 'huge' shift.


BIO games - outside of ME and a few others - tend to give you a chocie of your protagnist so you aren't limited. Plus, JE had you be Chinese.

[Ecmoose]

Volourn wrote...

"How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks."

Don't be racist. Plus, BIO has sued more than the 'white man' in their advertising.


"Considering the gaming market is actually making a huge shift towards indie games at the moment, then yes, you've got half my point."

Define 'huge' shift.


BIO games - outside of ME and a few others - tend to give you a chocie of your protagnist so you aren't limited. Plus, JE had you be Chinese.

Huge shift: The indie market is expanding every day. Games like Project Eternity that garner millions of dollars from fans are showing a trend away from reliance on publishers that dictate the types of games released on the market. 

Indie developers are being afforded larger floor space and more media time than ever before and their influence continues to grow and is consistently capitalized on. I'd say those are the makings of a shift away from what we've seen in the last 10 - 15 years.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Sabariel]

Volourn wrote...

"How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks."

Don't be racist. Plus, BIO has sued more than the 'white man' in their advertising.


"Considering the gaming market is actually making a huge shift towards indie games at the moment, then yes, you've got half my point."

Define 'huge' shift.


BIO games - outside of ME and a few others - tend to give you a chocie of your protagnist so you aren't limited. Plus, JE had you be Chinese.

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

Modifié par Sabariel, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:48 .

[Ecmoose]

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

[TheKoumbare]

So when I first read the opening of this thread, my vehement knee-jerk reaction was:

"It's not about what's 'fair', or 'just' or 'ideal', it's about what best attracts new players, seeing as Bioware is a company that needs to make money. So quit your whining and be glad the content itself is a lot better about equal representation than most other games out there."

Then I thought:
"I mean, equal representation is great and all, but a company can't be expected to ignore consumer preference and risk business for it--not unless consumers start making it clear that this sort of thing is important to them...which...wait...is exactly what the OP is doing. Oh. I feel like a dick now."

Alright Bioware, Sabariel's right, it would be awesome to see more variation in your default protagonists. You should get on that.

[Sabariel]

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

She was whitewashed in the Fancy Trailer. She was also whitewashed in two wallpapers that were used for marketing purposes... one of which is still on the official site. And she was whitewashed again in a sneak preview of the comics.

Modifié par Sabariel, 09 septembre 2013 - 04:56 .

[AppealToReason]

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Why not use all of them?

(But mostly a dark-skinned blonde elf plz, thx BioWare. )

[In Exile]

Sabariel wrote...

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

I certainly agree that we need more equal representation, particularly in gaming... but why is the solution to simply pick another group to cater to as the marketing iconic?

The marketing should be inclusive, but that means showing that a protagonist could literally be anyone - skin colour, gender, fantasy race, whatever.  

[Zeldrik1389]

Lol why make such a big deal out of it? They can use whatever default character they want. As long as they let us customize our characters so we can play all black / white / yellow we want, they can use Mr Pacman on their cover for all I care.

[Ecmoose]

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Lol why make such a big deal out of it? They can use whatever default character they want. As long as they let us customize our characters so we can play all black / white / yellow we want, they can use Mr Pacman on their cover for all I care.

Because the default character is generated so as not to exclude people that can't "relate" to it. Thus they're often made in the style of the person most likely to purchase it, which is not inclusive.

If bioware made marketing material using all the different inquisitors we've seen so far, that would be awesome and a step forward, but as I said, I'm not holding my breath.

Modifié par Ecmoose, 09 septembre 2013 - 05:06 .

[AppealToReason]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Why not use all of them?

(But mostly a dark-skinned blonde elf plz, thx BioWare. )

Now you're discriminating against people with dark hair but light skin. Gawl.

[Kenny Da Finn]

Hurrah for this thread again.

The equal representation topic only ever goes around in circles. Should a protagonist be black or white, gay or straight, female or male. (I do realise you are talking about marketing specifically but it is a part of the overall argument)

Hell I could complain that there aren't enough games that have a New Zealand protagonist and that's excluding me because I don't want to sound American/English when I play my game.

I understand that people would like to represented fairly but sometimes people take it way to seriously. This is a business and it's objective when it comes down to it is to make money with marketing being a key part in doing so. When it comes down to it the core market that they aim the marketing at is a straight white male in America. They will always be trying to draw in more customers and that is the safest bet. I don't get upset that my country/culture isn't represented because I can understand that I am a minority market.

Asking to have equal representation is one thing but I can already see this thread getting hostile.