180 réponses à ce sujet

[AppealToReason]

Ecmoose wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

[Sabariel]

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it never crossed your mind.

[pdusen]

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

oy, here we go again.

Please try to follow me on this: in a game franchise whose hallmark has always been your ability to customize all of the physical attributes of your character, the fact that the characters that appear in advertising don't match your size/shape/color/gender doesn't matter. It doesn't.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No. No, it really doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't.

Modifié par pdusen, 09 septembre 2013 - 05:10 .

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

AppealToReason wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Why not use all of them?

(But mostly a dark-skinned blonde elf plz, thx BioWare. )

Now you're discriminating against people with dark hair but light skin. Gawl.

There's no winning here.

[Ecmoose]

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...


I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

If it was a stand alone issue I guess it wouldn't have bothered me, but after continually seeing people of your skin tone or race be whitewashed in major media (i.e Bane in the newest Batman) it starts to get a bit overwhelming. 

It isn't unreasonable to want people of color, or women, fairly represented in gaming, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the business side of wanting to insure their income. 

[Sabariel]

pdusen wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

oy, here we go again.

Please try to follow me on this: in a game franchise whose hallmark has always been your ability to customize all of the physical attributes of your character, the fact that the characters that appear in advertising don't match your size/shape/color/gender doesn't matter. It doesn't.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No. No it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't.

So, they have a game series that is supposedly about "whoever you want to be/look like", and yet they feature and showcase the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: Generic White Man #47.

How curious.

[Ecmoose]

pdusen wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ah ha........ No.

Representation in marketing is important. Representation is important, period. Generic White Males have had more than their fair share of representation over the years. It is time for a change.

oy, here we go again.

Please try to follow me on this: in a game franchise whose hallmark has always been your ability to customize all of the physical attributes of your character, the fact that the characters that appear in advertising don't match your size/shape/color/gender doesn't matter. It doesn't.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No. No, it really doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't.

Except that it does. As someone who is not a white male, I am more likely to pick up a game that depicts someone that I feel more likely to relate to. Do I still play games where there are white male protagonists, of course, but when that's 90% of the market, I'd be hard pressed to be a gamer otherwise.

Yes, DA and ME have always had customization for their characters, so why isn't that in the marketing material? Why not make a couple different ads with different looking protagonists instead of just focusing on one variation.

One reason is time and money, but that's not the whole issue.

[AppealToReason]

Sabariel wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it never crossed your mind.

Because its not something I was paying attention to? I didn't even know it was supposed to be the same gangly Isabela from DAO until the game came out and once that happened I didn't care about the trailer anymore because I had the game.

[bandcandy]

There's no point in debating this with people on BSN because white privilege by its very definition allows them to be blind to such disparities. All you end up getting is ignorant responses, "reverse racism" claims, etc.

[pdusen]

Sabariel wrote...

So, they have a game series that is supposedly about "whoever you want to be/look like", and yet they feature and showcase the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again: Generic White Man #47.

How curious.

No, it isn't curious. It's marketing. Why do they do it that way? Because crazy marketing voodoo tells them to. What are the implications? The implication is that it's marketing. What could their strategy be? Crazy marketing voodoo. There isn't anything at all curious about crazy marketing voodoo.

[fiveforchaos]

phunx wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
When non-generic white males draw in more (positive) attention in marketing than generic white males, your point will be valid. At this present time I surmise that they do NOT, thus your point is invalid.
.

I honestly don't believe we have enough sample size to determine what actually works best, cause the vast majority of published games went with the standard Generic White Guy #47.

I certainly know that the Generic White Solider on the cover of ME put me off Mass Effect until my friends started showing me a femshep playthrough. Before that it looked like every other boring shooter on the market, why should I bother wasting my hard earned money on that?

[pdusen]

fiveforchaos wrote...

I certainly know that the Generic White Solider on the cover of ME put me off Mass Effect until my friends started showing me a femshep playthrough. Before that it looked like every other boring shooter on the market, why should I bother wasting my hard earned money on that?

You've lost me. How would the change of color/gender of Shepard on the cover of the game make it look like any less of a generic shooter?

[Kenny Da Finn]

Sabariel wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it never crossed your mind.

Ok, wow. Thats what everyone got so mad about?
They way people talked about it like they had made some travisty baffles me.
I would hardly call that white washing, you see her for what, 3 seconds under a pale blue light in a flashback that makes hawke look like a ghost in out of engine and pre game footage. Anyone who watched the sacred ashes trailer for DA:O would surely realise how drastic changes can be made from trailers to the game. Not to mention she hardly looks like a white woman in that footage, sure shes not as dark as in game but she still looks at the very least well tanned and exotic even under that light.

[Ecmoose]

pdusen wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...

I certainly know that the Generic White Solider on the cover of ME put me off Mass Effect until my friends started showing me a femshep playthrough. Before that it looked like every other boring shooter on the market, why should I bother wasting my hard earned money on that?

You've lost me. How would the change of color/gender of Shepard on the cover of the game make it look like any less of a generic shooter?

Generic shooters feature white males.

Thus if the protagonist is not white, or male, it is something other than generic. You can argue game mechanics if you want, but all you need is that first bit to avoid being generic by definition.

[jmadsen]

 Oh boy, here we go again.

[Sabariel]

Kenny Da Finn wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Oh, you mean when they used white women once in a blue moon? Or the time they used whitewashed Isabela? That hardly counts. And whitewashed Isabela doesn't count at all.

I'm unfamilair with the whitewashed Isabella. not arguing that it didn't happen, just genuinly curious. I know of the game mod that made her white, but that's all I can think of.

I think its the DA2 trailer where Hawke has that flashback when he's fingering his bicep and everything is pale blue. I thought it was pale blue just because it was a flashback but lots of people like to think it was racially charged or something.

I'll concede that it looks like very bright lighting making her skin look paler, but that still begs the question as to why they used marketing material that didn't accurately portray the look of it's characters. The answer to which would probably leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

See that never crossed my mind. At all. Ever. Until people here needed something to get angry about.

My biggest issue with Isabela in the trailer is that her face looks super fat.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why it never crossed your mind.

Ok, wow. Thats what everyone got so mad about?
They way people talked about it like they had made some travisty baffles me.
I would hardly call that white washing, you see her for what, 3 seconds under a pale blue light in a flashback that makes hawke look like a ghost in out of engine and pre game footage. Anyone who watched the sacred ashes trailer for DA:O would surely realise how drastic changes can be made from trailers to the game. Not to mention she hardly looks like a white woman in that footage, sure shes not as dark as in game but she still looks at the very least well tanned and exotic even under that light.

1.) She was whitewashed in the Fancy Trailer. She was also whitewashed
in two wallpapers that were used for marketing purposes... one of which
is still on the official site. And she was whitewashed again in a sneak
preview of the comics.

2.) In order for a PoC to be whitewashed, they do not have to look 100% white. Making a very dark-skinned woman two/three shades lighter to be more "acceptable" or "prettier" is still racist, still whitewashing.

3.) Using the word "exotic" to describe a WoC and/or her skin color is racist and fetishizing. Don't do it. Thank-you.

[killswitch423]

Don't bother debating, folks. In this argument everyone is either a "privileged white male" or "oversensitive" depending on which side of the fence you pick.

Every. Damned. Time.

[gangly369]

Perhaps you should look at the cover of Jade Empire, which predominately features the female protagonist (that isn't caucasian) that one can select at the beginning of the game.

Now that isn't an excuse that Bioware can't do more of that, but it does show that Bioware HAS done it in the past (whereas many game developers haven't), and it makes me believe that if any game developer were to feature someone other than a 'generic' white male, it would be Bioware.

[Thiefy]

Sabariel wrote...

How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks.

Because:



Seriously, they can't even begin to fathom sharing that coveted "promo/canon" space with a man of color, you really think they will let a woman (let alone a woman of color) STEAL that spot?

But hey, Qunari with HORNS as a playable race. That's totally not pandering to fan demands AT ALL.

In all seriousness I wish Bioware would make a canon black protagonist (with FABULOUS hair). Ever see the sh*t storm that happens when there's a black superman or black batman? But  nah, that doesn't make those people racist. they just feel threatened by images of something that doesn't conform to their expectations and expect/demand that the status quo used to marginalize everyone else be maintained for the sake of "coherency/logic". 

[Texhnolyze101]

More whining...*yawn*

[killswitch423]

How is the above image relevant to your point exactly? Just curious.

[Ecmoose]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

How about using one of those lovely WoCs from the concept art as an Inquisitor in those demos of yours instead of Generic White Man #47. That'd be great. Thanks.

Because:

*snip*

Seriously, they can't even begin to fathom sharing that coveted "promo/canon" space with a man of color, you really think they will let a woman (let alone a woman of color) STEAL that spot?

But hey, Qunari with HORNS as a playable race. That's totally not pandering to fan demands AT ALL.

In all seriousness I wish Bioware would make a canon black protagonist (with FABULOUS hair). Ever see the sh*t storm that happens when there's a black superman or black batman? But  nah, that doesn't make those people racist. they just feel threatened by images of something that doesn't conform to their expectations and expect/demand that the status quo used to marginalize everyone else be maintained for the sake of "coherency/logic". 

Haha that mug is fantastic.

What you say is true though, when Idris Elba was cast in Thor there were websites dedicated to boycotting the movie, but when Bane went from hispanic to English, no one batted an eye (except to swoon over Tom Hardy).
It's an unfortunate double standard.

[phunx]

Like I've said before Generic White Guy #47 staring at you from the cover is the biggest pandering borefest. But nah, everything that isn't Generic White Guy #47 is pandering, cause what is self-awareness?

[fiveforchaos]

Ecmoose wrote...

pdusen wrote...

fiveforchaos wrote...

I certainly know that the Generic White Solider on the cover of ME put me off Mass Effect until my friends started showing me a femshep playthrough. Before that it looked like every other boring shooter on the market, why should I bother wasting my hard earned money on that?

You've lost me. How would the change of color/gender of Shepard on the cover of the game make it look like any less of a generic shooter?

Generic shooters feature white males.

Thus if the protagonist is not white, or male, it is something other than generic. You can argue game mechanics if you want, but all you need is that first bit to avoid being generic by definition.

Exactly, I'm not necessarily an educated buyer all the time (or at least I wasn't back then) I will buy, or at least look at games, based soley on the cover, and that's the case with a lot of consumers too. If a game looks like another game I know I don't like, then I won't look at that game either, even though Mass Effect has a lot of elements (good story, characters, customizable PC etc...) that I did like in my games.

[thatguy212]

Sabariel wrote...
3.) Using the word "exotic" to describe a WoC and/or her skin color is racist and fetishizing. Don't do it. Thank-you.

exotic  (ɪɡzɒtɪk)  — adj
1.originating in a foreign country, esp one in the tropics; not native: an exotic plant
2.having a strange or bizarre allure, beauty, or quality
Yup sure is racist, but enough about the exotic isabela's exotically exotic skintone i got to get back to my awesome life