180 réponses à ce sujet

[thatguy212]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...
3.) Using the word "exotic" to describe a WoC and/or her skin color is racist and fetishizing. Don't do it. Thank-you.

exotic  (ɪɡzɒtɪk)  — adj
1.originating in a foreign country, esp one in the tropics; not native: an exotic plant
2.having a strange or bizarre allure, beauty, or quality
Yup sure is racist, but enough about the exotic isabela's exotically exotic skintone i got to get back to my awesome life 

1. Dehumanizing
2. Fetishisizing

...You were saying?

Ah yes i forgot how being foreign was dehumanizing, or how being attractive was a fetish

you've clearly never been otherized, so kindly educate yourself before thinking you can talk for people who live through it.

please and thank you. 

and because i'm so nice here's a head start.

Just to be 100% clear this isn't satire right? because this is honestly one of the funniest things i've seen all week 

[phunx]

N7_killswitch wrote...
So I should feel guilty for being born white?  The hell?

There are other types of adversity that people have to deal with in the world.  I grew up as a minority in my town/neighborhood/school despite being white, if you really want to go there.

No you shouldn't feel guilty, you should just pay a closer attention to some things in your life and it will dawn on you easily. I'm white as well and you can see what side of the debate I'm on.

[Sabariel]

d-boy15 wrote...

seriously, what is WoCs that you guys talking about?

MoC = man/men of color
WoC = woman/women of color
PoC = person/people of color

[Dio Demon]

Sabariel wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

seriously, what is WoCs that you guys talking about?

MoC = man/men of color
WoC = woman/women of color
PoC = person/people of color

H = Human there that's better.

[Ecmoose]

N7_killswitch wrote...

I'm also just saying this to piont out how I've felt in reaction to some of the things posted here, as a white male, I apparently am inherently privileged despite anything I dealt with growing up where I am so... some of the wording does seem a little counterintuitive to your goal.

Edit:  Unless your goal is to assume myself and other white males have never had to deal with any adversity in our lives.  Then I guess some have succeeded here (see above).

As a non white male, I personally take some issue with the whole "white privilage" thing. The idea behind it is that, as someone who has never been negatively characterized by your race, you have lived more privilaged than those people who have seen the downside of not being the majority.

However, minorities aspire to a world where everyone recieves "white privilage" because that should be how the world works, one where no one understand receiving different treatment because of their looks. All the statement really means is that it may be difficult for you to understand prejudice because it's less likely that you have recieved it thus creating a gap in understanding why other people would see a problem where you percieve none.

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

[killswitch423]

Sabariel wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

I'm also just saying this to piont out how I've felt in reaction to some of the things posted here, as a white male, I apparently am inherently privileged despite anything I dealt with growing up where I am so... some of the wording does seem a little counterintuitive to your goal.

Edit:  Unless your goal is to assume myself and other white males have never had to deal with any adversity in our lives.  Then I guess some have succeeded here (see above).

The fact that you've dealt with adversity in your life does not mean you understand systematic oppression/erasure/unrepresentation/etc.

Maybe I just don't see any modern 'systematic oppression' in my neck of the woods.  

Unrepresentation, sure, I hear you.  More diversity in media as a whole is never a bad thing.

[Sabariel]

N7_killswitch wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

I'm also just saying this to piont out how I've felt in reaction to some of the things posted here, as a white male, I apparently am inherently privileged despite anything I dealt with growing up where I am so... some of the wording does seem a little counterintuitive to your goal.

Edit:  Unless your goal is to assume myself and other white males have never had to deal with any adversity in our lives.  Then I guess some have succeeded here (see above).

The fact that you've dealt with adversity in your life does not mean you understand systematic oppression/erasure/unrepresentation/etc.

Maybe I just don't see any modern 'systematic oppression' in my neck of the woods.  

Unrepresentation, sure, I hear you.  More diversity in media as a whole is never a bad thing.

Society trains you, trains everyone, not to see it.

[killswitch423]

Ecmoose wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

I'm also just saying this to piont out how I've felt in reaction to some of the things posted here, as a white male, I apparently am inherently privileged despite anything I dealt with growing up where I am so... some of the wording does seem a little counterintuitive to your goal.

Edit:  Unless your goal is to assume myself and other white males have never had to deal with any adversity in our lives.  Then I guess some have succeeded here (see above).

As a non white male, I personally take some issue with the whole "white privilage" thing. The idea behind it is that, as someone who has never been negatively characterized by your race, you have lived more privilaged than those people who have seen the downside of not being the majority.

However, minorities aspire to a world where everyone recieves "white privilage" because that should be how the world works, one where no one understand receiving different treatment because of their looks. All the statement really means is that it may be difficult for you to understand prejudice because it's less likely that you have recieved it thus creating a gap in understanding why other people would see a problem where you percieve none.

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

More difficult to understand, sure.  Of course it is, as is with anything not experienced in exactly the same way firsthand.  That doesn't mean I can't or don't understand, and it seems you agree?  What I take issue with is the assumption that because I'm white, I've had an easier life than you because you're not.

Everyone has problems to deal with in life.  I've just spent so long not considering non-whites as anything different that all I see is another human being.  Maybe this has made me unintentionally ignorant, but then, what are we really striving for here? 

[killswitch423]

Open my eyes, then Sabariel, to what I've been trained to not see. I'm sincere here; I know that everyone no matter who you are has to deal with different levels or problem and pain in their lives in various forms, and I guess I just believe no one person is inherently better or worse off than anyone else simply based on the color of their skin... or non-color. Maybe I'm naive, sure, but I'm tired of feeling generalized when it comes to things like this. Just think you'd make a stronger argument without the 'privileged white male' thing because that can put people on the defensive or cause unintentional offense.

[Thiefy]

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

Ecmoose wrote...

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

 
I've done more of my fair share to TRY and educate people (here and irl), and I'm tired. As a fellow PoC you *should* know why we are tired.

Instead of acting defensive, maybe people should try to learn WHY this large group of people are upset. Google makes it extremely easy but instead, they'd rather play the victim card and stew in their own ignorance.

And you know what, I've been there before and have shown my own ignorance here, on topics concerning homosexuality and bisexuality. But you learn, grow and mostly, say SORRY for the dick things you did while making an active effort not to do it again.

[Ecmoose]

N7_killswitch wrote...

Ecmoose wrote...

N7_killswitch wrote...

I'm also just saying this to piont out how I've felt in reaction to some of the things posted here, as a white male, I apparently am inherently privileged despite anything I dealt with growing up where I am so... some of the wording does seem a little counterintuitive to your goal.

Edit:  Unless your goal is to assume myself and other white males have never had to deal with any adversity in our lives.  Then I guess some have succeeded here (see above).

As a non white male, I personally take some issue with the whole "white privilage" thing. The idea behind it is that, as someone who has never been negatively characterized by your race, you have lived more privilaged than those people who have seen the downside of not being the majority.

However, minorities aspire to a world where everyone recieves "white privilage" because that should be how the world works, one where no one understand receiving different treatment because of their looks. All the statement really means is that it may be difficult for you to understand prejudice because it's less likely that you have recieved it thus creating a gap in understanding why other people would see a problem where you percieve none.

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

More difficult to understand, sure.  Of course it is, as is with anything not experienced in exactly the same way firsthand.  That doesn't mean I can't or don't understand, and it seems you agree?  What I take issue with is the assumption that because I'm white, I've had an easier life than you because you're not.

Everyone has problems to deal with in life.  I've just spent so long not considering non-whites as anything different that all I see is another human being.  Maybe this has made me unintentionally ignorant, but then, what are we really striving for here? 

Which is why I take issue with the term "white privilage". it just causes defensiveness instead of allowing for understanding. 

The problem is though that even as a white person living amongst minorities, you can be afforded more opportunity than those who aren't. I come from a pretty poor family, and my 3 half brothers are 100% white. It took quite some time for them to realize why I would occasionally get upset about white washing, even though they grew up with me and never saw me as anything but their brother.

So when vocalization for a marketing campaign featuring something other than the standard protagonist comes along, it might not be immediately obvious to "you" (generic use of you) why those people might be upset about something that has never occured to you before. All we're asking for is some understanding as to why we wish these things versus the overwhelming responses of "stop whining" or "big deal thats marketing" that seems to be the common case.

[Fredward]

To the people going "Your argument is invalid because Bioware is a company in a capitalist society and has to do their damn-all to make the most money," I'd agree with you... if Bioware has not said time and time and time again that they are for inclusivity even if that doesn't net them the biggest amount of dosh possible. So when they keep using white male #47 as their default, or their brilliant idea for importing save states (and it really is) exclude people below a certain income level because of shiny things like market telemetry and probably free ad space it's the very apogee of hypocrisy.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

"Hair touching?"

[Am1vf]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.
(...)

 That card is great! Thank you! <3 I think I might have to print a few copies.

And you're right, the dudebros have been very active in the Inquisition forums lately, doing their best to close any thread about romances, female characters or PC races. I wonder why... 

[Sabariel]

N7_killswitch wrote...

Open my eyes, then Sabariel, to what I've been trained to not see. I'm sincere here; I know that everyone no matter who you are has to deal with different levels or problem and pain in their lives in various forms, and I guess I just believe no one person is inherently better or worse off than anyone else simply based on the color of their skin... or non-color. Maybe I'm naive, sure, but I'm tired of feeling generalized when it comes to things like this. Just think you'd make a stronger argument without the 'privileged white male' thing because that can put people on the defensive or cause unintentional offense.

This thread is full of examples. The minute-- no, second, something doesn't feature a Generic White Male / someone asks for something different, people go insane. Isabela is whitewashed, and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. WoC are called exotic and people dismiss it/ignore it/think it's okay. Idris Elba, a black man, is cast as Heimdall and people boycott Thor. People don't notice/ignore/dismiss the huge gap between games that feature white people and games that feature PoC. People tell me that pointing out someone's privilege is offensive.

[Ecmoose]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

Ecmoose wrote...

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

 
I've done more of my fair share to TRY and educate people (here and irl), and I'm tired. As a fellow PoC you *should* know why we are tired.

Instead of acting defensive, maybe people should try to learn WHY this large group of people are upset. Google makes it extremely easy but instead, they'd rather play the victim card and stew in their own ignorance.

And you know what, I've been there before and have shown my own ignorance here, on topics concerning homosexuality and bisexuality. But you learn, grow and mostly, say SORRY for the dick things you did while making an active effort not to do it again.

I understand, and I've gone through phases between being upset and giving up, and trying again to educate. However putting people on the defensive is just more likely to blind them to something they don't understand because it creates negative reinforcement. 

There's no easy way to make people understand, and you'll never get 100% of people to get it, but it's been my experience that acting hostile has only made people less understanding and more likely to tell me I deserve what I get.

[Hi my name is Ryan]

All this sobbing is making my oppression rod rock hard.

[killswitch423]

Ecmoose, I appreciate your approach. I think we get each other but this conversation really isn't going any where good since I'm really not one of the people against what this thread is for anyway. Certain things just made me feel a little bit antagonized into chiming in.

Speaking of, thief-of-hearts, please stop antagonizing. Dudebros? Seriously? Are you really referring to me as such?

[Daerog]

Well, just to make this thread stay on topic and related to DA without too much deviation and making it more appropriate in Off Topic or whatever:

Ya, seeing how the PC can look as other options sounds great. I can understand why it was GWM in the demo, as I guess programmers have a faster time making one and are used to making it, thus the term "generic." However, future demos it would be cool to see all the other options and variety available. Random created humans, dwarves, elves, and qunari. Would be nice to see how it's looking so far.


Anyway, love you all, don't forget to love your fellow humans in return; listen, think, speak, repeat.

[Dio Demon]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

uh oh, looks like the dudbros are starting to come full force, purposely derailing the thread in order to lock it down. that means it's time to bust out the BINGO CARD.

Ecmoose wrote...

Honestly though I think the term has done more harm then good and just been used to sling vitriol at people who don't immediately relate to those of us who struggle with prejudice, instead of appropriately explaining things everyone just says "well you have white privilage and you should get over it."

 
I've done more of my fair share to TRY and educate people (here and irl), and I'm tired. As a fellow PoC you *should* know why we are tired.

Instead of acting defensive, maybe people should try to learn WHY this large group of people are upset. Google makes it extremely easy but instead, they'd rather play the victim card and stew in their own ignorance.

And you know what, I've been there before and have shown my own ignorance here, on topics concerning homosexuality and bisexuality. But you learn, grow and mostly, say SORRY for the dick things you did while making an active effort not to do it again.

Last time I'm going to try because I'm slowly becoming a broken record.

You want equality right? Look at the bigger picture we are the same specie, our DNA is very similar to one another the only difference is a few aesthetic differences, by stating that you are a 'PoC' (stupid abbreviations!) you are inherently segregating yourself from the rest of the human race. So you are damning yourself by stating this.

For all intensive purposes of this argument I am a cactus.

[shit's fucked cunts]

I'm sorry, can someone please explain the "hair touching" thing to me?

[Hi my name is Ryan]

Zazzerka wrote...

I'm sorry, can someone please explain the "hair touching" thing to me?

Never tell a proud feminist to shave her pit hair.

[Dio Demon]

Zazzerka wrote...

I'm sorry, can someone please explain the "hair touching" thing to me?

I get the creepy feeling from that as if someone comes up from behind you. Runs their hand through your hair and starts sniffing it.

[thatguy212]

Zazzerka wrote...

I'm sorry, can someone please explain the "hair touching" thing to me?

judging by a quick good search, its a hardship that exotic people face